Tudor uses the Bing Good Karma name as well. Channel Islands calls one of their longboards a Performer. Pretty low class.
What I find interesting, in the second post to this thread, is the beach in the picture. Holy smokes! That is a nice beach. It looks like the northern end of Tybee Island in Savannah. I have fond memories of the place. While the waves were always smaller than what I am used to, the beach and the ocean were almost magical and mysterious. I love those East Coast beaches. Some of them are the nicest in the world.
Did you know that out of the eleven or twelve islands off the coast of GA, only three have residents? Four if you count Cumberland. Five if you count Hog Hammock, but about eighty percent of the coastal island area is uninhabited. Amazing beauty. It’s too bad the surf is small. Or maybe that’s good. It will stay pristine that way.
The one thing is, I don’t even used this stringer combo, for any of my boards. I did a duplicate in Cocoa, with an original stringer (left over from old 60’s stock) in about 82’ 0r 83’, that was it. I am not the board police and I do not pirate others designs, I do put the tail blocks on though. I guess I’m just another contributor to the blatant rip off on an unregistered trade mark.
If Bing is/was so gung-ho to recapture the nostalgia of his famous model, why didn’t he stay in the business then? And yes, I would be pissed if tomorrow I woke up and found someone was ripping off my work (tip #1 use only your name for a trade mark, not a logo) You can’t pirate a persons name
Fairmont,I sent you a private message regarding the GA Coast.
“If Bing is/was so gung-ho to recapture the nostalgia of his famous model, why didn’t he stay in the business then? And yes, I would be pissed if tomorrow I woke up and found someone was ripping off my work (tip #1 use only your name for a trade mark, not a logo) You can’t pirate a persons name.”
Jim, does Joel have Davids permission to be making the board? Because if he does not, then that is exactly what he is doing… By calling the board the David Nuuhiwa Noserider II he is pirating DN’s name. If he does have Permission, and David is overseeing the Production, maybe getting a little kickback… then no problems here, glad to see it happening. As for the Bing logo… come on. I know it’s business, but sheez! Is he going to a Performer and an Ugly next? I don’t know though, it’ll be a little hard to make the “Con” logo out of the name “Tudor” -Carl
Mike Brock Interview Series
“I´m not trying to do anything really new but just give options that are fun.”
Interview with Joel Tudor January 31, 2003
Q: * While out there he let Tory borrow one of your longboards and Tory loved it! I believe it was a noserider model perhaps a David Nuuhiwa one.
Joel: If he let Tory ride the Nuuhiwa I´m sure he had a great time! It´s such a fun board. I mean its David´s signature model and who knows better than David what´s a good noserider!
…sounds like Nuuhiwa is involved, isn’t he a family friend? Joel surfed in some of his earliest contests against Nuuhiwa, obviously he was an influence.
The Karma name was already hashed out on this board before. And anyway, bringing back the name makes perfect sense if you look at what the word karma means and how it relates to the theme of reincarnation.
Was “All Along The Watchtower” a classless act by Hendrix? I’m sure many people have never even heard Dylan’s original. Truffaut and Godard were fascinated with American cinema, especially film noir and the work of Hitchcock. Was the French New Wave merely the work of unoriginal copycats then? Kurosawa reimagined the Western in the time of the samurai, Sergio Leone took these Japanese films (Yojimbo, Sanjuro) and reinvented the Western with the help of Clint Eastwood (A Fistful of Dollars, For A Few Dollars More).
I don’t view this as a rip-off, I view it a nod to the past, a reference to the originators.
It would be nice to know the actual facts. Perhaps it is a “rip off”. I’m not giving Tudor a free ride, but it seems like many people simply put him down because of his success. But attacking someone’s character and business methods from behind an anonymous screen name in cyber space without providing any details…talk about a lack of class.
I could be very wrong, but the things posted here reveal nothing more than petty grudges.
Quote:
The one thing is, I don’t even used this stringer combo, for any of my boards. I did a duplicate in Cocoa, with an original stringer (left over from old 60’s stock) in about 82’ 0r 83’, that was it. I am not the board police and I do not pirate others designs, I do put the tail blocks on though. I guess I’m just another contributor to the blatant rip off on an unregistered trade mark.
If Bing is/was so gung-ho to recapture the nostalgia of his famous model, why didn’t he stay in the business then? And yes, I would be pissed if tomorrow I woke up and found someone was ripping off my work (tip #1 use only your name for a trade mark, not a logo) You can’t pirate a persons name
Jim, I am very surprised the way you feel and your atitiude. For someone of your stature in the industry I feel that you should have more respect and show some dignity to the past founders and lead by your actions. Yes, you are a contributor to a blatant rip off registered or not. It doesn’t take a genius to realize this. Atleast that’s how I feel. Who cares how I feel. It doesn’t matter. Someone posted asking about what people thought of this board. Just my .02 cents.
I think you could atleast have JT’s ear and have him approach it in a dignified manner. You can pirate someones logo and design it happens every day.
Bing is in business.
Head on brother. Do what you will.
Non self proclaimed anything.
Howzit Ambrose, Gary fodor, Now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time. I can’t even remember the last time I talked to him. If you bought the rights he must have passed away. Aloha, Kokua
the side tracking point is to up grade the two door we must have a four door.yet the reverie brought the alternative spelling and the fact that gary’s estranged wife was named jo the mind ping pong poem was complete…as to Gary the fodor My wish is that he is alive and well surfing exotic realms living in a british racing green VW panel van eating avocados and loving an extended life +surf glad to spark a memory…if we say his name three times he may appear…Gary Fodor,Gary Fodor ,GARY FODOR,where for art thou …ambrose …fare thee well
Didn’t he have a brother named John. I remember the Foders from early 60’s Huntington Beach days and from here in the 70’s, I think I need defrag my mental hard drive. Aloha, Kokua
? quest ions…will… be answered…shake the black ball and turn it over and look in the window ambrose!>>>what do you see …I see me and fodor after a set every body else got cleansed and the next set is a ahare set…Your memory is clearing now we get fodor to call on the phone… to shak …mind power …
Yes Carl, David had told Joel recently that he is very appreciative of the generous royalty he gets and Joel is the ONLY one who remebers him with compensation
NO, EasternPacific, it doesn’t say “Good Karma” on the label,it is called Karma, like my mechanic’s biz cards Karmacanich, generic name
Jim- Sweet. I am silenced then. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Tudor should stick with the Bing knock off logo too, I like it much better than his normal one. 
-Carl
Without claiming any authority on the law and copy rights, I still don’t care for the way the few builders I have mentioned go about their naming of their boards. I realize that the Karma is not Good Karma, or the David II is not the Bing DN noserider, or the C.I. Performer is not the Weber Performer. Even in these three examples it’s hard to pigeon hole them into the same box. Still, in my book, it’s more classy to follow a form with your own original input on design, copying the idea that influences your own skills, and especially not calling it by name, in whole or part.
I brought back the Karma point because of the accumulative effect that stuck me after seeing the copying of the D.N. Noserider. So if J.T. is the nostalgia guru, who has it in him to follow the older influences, than so be it. I had a Good Karma, and rode the Bing noserider, and after a few decades they resurface in away that bothers me, and someone asks the question what do you think? There you have it. One point that has been ignored is that it the D.N.II was probably marketed more on David’s influence than J.T. David has been making his model on his own for years with out Bings name. J.T. took it to the next level by copying Bing’s logo. How did that evolve? Bing drops out / David continues on. Max Macdonald was making them for David a few years ago up here, same board. Who’s to say what David does with his name? Bing might care or maybe they have a good relationship and it’s no big deal. I doubt we’ll ever know.
One thing is for sure, Joel Tudor is one of the best and unique surfers to have ever come through the pipeline. I have reservations on his business practices in regards to what has been stated above. It doesn’t affect me directly at all. David Nuuhiwa is one of the best surfers ever. He still blows minds with his skills in the water. But... after a few decades these two come together and join forces and package the same thing with Bings logo added on for good measure. You be the judge. All the above mentioned boards are probably great boards, no question. If it were not a marketed model, it wouldn’t bother me in the least, but the flashy advertisements in my mind signal to me a couple of guys trying to make a buck in an unethical way. Also, if the question wasn’t asked with pictures posted, I wouldn’t have said a word. I still hold these guys in high regard as surfers.
Bing Karma 1969
Bing Maui Foil 1969
With Dan Bendiksen (RIP) doing the lion’s share of the shaping duties on the original “Bing” Noserider, or Jim Phillips doing “Velzy” boards, or Stu Kenson(still?) doing “Joel Tudor” boards or (pick a ghost shaper) doing (pick a label’s) boards, does it really even matter what the label says? Aren’t most of the ghost shapers doing more than one brand?
With most boards being glassed in the same factories, is their really much difference in quality among the different boards?
Obviously, JT is a fantastic surfer who could hop on anything and rip. That doesn’t mean that I am going to go out and pay a huge premium for “his” bootlegged label. Unfortunately, it’s not going to improve my surfing ability.
As was pointed out recently on another thread…
“WHATS IN A NAME? $$$$$”
a surfboard design is hard to pin down when it comes to being called a knockoff or what have you. to the unknowing, they are kinda looking the same. but to us …these boards are like a woman(well almost). by looking at the contours and lines of the board we can tell much about it. if we close our eyes and run our hands along these curves and contours we could pretty much gather the same info. any board (AAA,performer,penetrator,etc.)would change its performance with the slightest rocker change,wide point change or any other mod,and some changes may even make a great board work for you even better if the area in which it is used is different from the area for which it was designed.all boards have the potentisl for being great boards. not every one or every place is the same. when i go visit old friends at board factories…their shaping these famous name boards…whats in a name???
all
So much negativity…
The reality is that:
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Joel and his family are a pleasure to deal with
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they are paying Nuuhiwa
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the boards are well shaped
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Channin does incredible glassing / color work, not to mention bulletproof packing and shipping
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Bing sold out to G&S in the 70’s, didn’t he?
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the popularity of the Nuuhiwa Noserider was due to Nuuhiwa’s name and talent, not Bing’s
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there is no mention of Nuuhiwa at all in connection w/ the current Noserider offered by Bing and shaped by Matt Calvani
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the use of the label is not a “rip off”, it’s a tribute, it’s well known that Tudor was / is influenced by Nuuhiwa and the 60’s, this is a fairly common mode of current thinking that is especially inluenced by skateboard / art culture that arose in the 1980’s
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Compared to 99% of the boards availible in the shops near me, and what I’ve seen on trips and in the magazines, the board has character and a certain uniqueness. Same with my 9’0 JT Diamond T.
The board cost me less than a Cooperfish would have. A beautiful well crafted board and the best noserider I’ve ever ridden. Period.
I’m sure if you look hard enough, everyone in the surf industry could be accused of “rip offs” and shady business deals.
well said. think about it, the surfboard of today still has no moving parts,uses no special type of fuel to enhance its performamce,and hasn’t changed much in how many decades???how many changes can be made from the origional design without re-defining what surfing is about.there are alot of fantastic," magic" boards.all of us had a few and alot of us wish we had the one that we let go. joel tudor is a good person,nuuhiwa’s boards are a sound product…a credit to the industry if you will.one of jt’s boards caught my eye the other day in a shop, and i had to cop a feel.surrounded by imports,his board was the one i was attracted to. very nice.if nothing else at least he’s carrying on a tradition we all love.