I do like this board however i do have one problem with it which is starting to really bug me.
I find it terrible for cutbacks. I pump it down the line no problem, nice and smooth then set up for a cutback and it just stiffens up. When I do get it turned around it’s more jerky than a nice flow.
I am in the 80-90kg range and looking at there websight it looks like I did order the wrong size. It is very close to the dims on my previous board ( a Mick Mackie Hybrid Fish which cutback like a dream) and I thought the extra float from the EPS would come in handy.
I spoke to a guy in a surfshop and he said that the problem is the size and the EPS.
This could be true but I think it’s more than that. I made myself a EPS board a few years ago that was way thicker and wider and had no problems with doing a cutback.
I have noticed that the Rail down at the tail is extremely hard all the way up to the side fin. It is bevelled after that up to the middle but even the bevel has a hard edge at least 8 inches up from the side fin before it softens out.
Could this be the problem? When I’m riding it this area is where it feels to stiffen up from.
If so would a little bit of Wet and Dry sandpaper make a difference?
Could it be a fin problem? I read somewhere (maybe on Swaylocks) that if you are having trouble with cutbacks put in a smaller back fin. (I’m thinking about trying a “Robber” set up from Futures.)
you are on the right track try different fin setup.
is this the stringerless eps/carbon rail? those can be finiky in the conditions that they work well in.
some boards just dont suit your style. some boards dont cutback worth a s&*^ but maybe they fly down the line or boost huge airs or take big drops.....
sometimes the designs that a select pro rips on is not the most user friendly board.....
For what it’s worth, I saw a guy surfing beautifully on one in Long Beach, NY during the Leslie swell on Monday. It actually inspired me to make one similar myself (minus the carbon, stringerless, etc.). Was about head high, straight offshores, and hollow. Guy was surfing with style and aggression and the board just looked right on.
But back to your question, yeah, sounds like your only real option is to play around with fins. If smaller doesn’t work, try more upright (less rake)…
…if you compare a fish to a mini egg to cutback, well, fish gain.
So, if you bought this model to performs cutbacks, was not a good idea.
-the only way I see (better if you have 4WFS to tweak the fins but it s not the case) is change the stance and back foot positions. I do that and see others doing too, but naturally, I do not think put foot here, then back on position, etc; so you pump the board make the bottom turn and going to top of wave face to start the cutback, in that moment you switch back foot more rear and to the rail (heel) that you are turning; after the cutback you switch again to normal position; that s should be performed in a fluid way.
I have a 5’6" hypto and run machado fins (largest “medium” futures) and haven’t had that type of problems. A few questions: what fins are u currently running? What do you normally ride?
Live4truth: Maybe you are right and it is a transitional thing. My old board was very sweet and I was hoping the hyptokrypto would equal it. I have been riding swallow tails for quite a while and I just wanted a change. My current fins are HaydenShapes S VII Hex Core Future, Large size Fin. The reason I got the Large fins was again going off my last board which had larger fins. (FCS plastic, can't remember the number) Does your 5'6" Hypto have the hard edge down at the tail?
Grasshopper: Yes it is the EPS/Carbon rail type.
Reverb: I understand what you are sayiing about changing the foot position. I'll have to work on that. This is something i'm generally not very good at but I placed my tail pad on the tail to encorage me to do this more.
Knowaloha: WCT fin. I think I had a look at these. They are more upright with less rake, yes?
Chrisp: Yes it is a thruster.
Looks like I'll be trying some different fins.
I'm still a bit hung up on this hard edge. I've never had a board with such a hard edge so far up the board. I've always like a bit of hard edge for release down at the tail but this board seems excessively hard. I was thinking of rubbing a bit of sandpaper on the rail to soften the edge but I don't want to stuff the board.
I bought myself the 5’6" version of this board a few months ago to try something outside of my own shapes, Had a great time on it on the backhand in small waves, goes really nice and turns easy and loose for a pin tail… However I had exactly the same experience as you on my forehand, couldnt bury the rail easily to initiate the cutbacks. Seems like you have it covered with the above answers, try a looser fin setup etc… I think there is too much rail volume for an Eps board as its already really boyant which makes it hard to engage the rail quickly. Also being quite flat it is better ridden with long drawn ot turns etc , I have yet to try it in bigger stuff but found that its really tricky to surf with any wind or bumpy conditions also.
Ill be interested to see what fin setups you try on it and if softening th hard bottom rail does anything to make it "sink " more…
I call it bullshit...I'm not a very good surfer but I know when someone is Yanking My Chain.....
When you committ to building and riding your own boards....there is no excuse for anything.............My stuff is not perfect....my cutbacks are awesome because I'm the shaper and the glasser. No blame game......The perfect surfboard for me is the one I built for me....
Are the bottom of the rails around the nose area (from half way up the tail) quite rolled from the bottom of the board? It might be that the combination of very hard rail at the tail area and rails near the nose almost blended into the bottom of the board could cause some tracking issues from a lack of front end grip in the water when starting a cutback.
Does you board also get slightly hung up when coming off the top forehand?
hpsb turns easy in a cutback . so much so that its easy to do a half arsed turn . lota guys do cutties but they are not on the rail. they turn of the tail and flick the board round. the reason you cant do a cutback on the thick railed board is because you probs cant do a proper cutback. initiate turn with more speed and more critical section with weight on front foot . face the direction you a surfing and angulate over the rail. turn on the rail. good surfer can do a full rail cutback on a 9 1 or 6 1 fish or hpsb . its technique. lots of guys are not of ability to ride hpsb as these boards are to easy to turn so lots of surfers lack power and projection in the turn. learn do do a full rail hand in the water cutback on a single fin or a 9 1
Paul, that is true to a certain extent, but some boards just don’t turn well. why struggle on a board that feels forced when turning or cutting back rather than riding a board that does what you want with fluidity.
Forcing cutbacks on a board that doesn’t like it takes more time and can lose you speed, not good if you are on a nice fast peeling wave.
I agree with finding a nice critical section, boards do tend to respond better. But my guess is that something to do with the rails must be not right upfront on his board, its probably when he is setting the rail with the weight on his front foot that something is not performing like it should. thats why I think the problem lies upfront rather than far back. Could be wrong though (wouldn’t be for the first time)
…hello Speedseeker, those boards you mention were not designed to hot dog Surfing or turn on a dime I bet. Check the outline in the rear 1/3, check the tail rocker, check the fins position and overall set up.
-Hello Everysurfer, the modern fishes can turn pretty loose, but have more tail rocker than an old one or retro one.
Also, I build HPSB up to 5 8 that have wider tails and you really can cutbacks these.
It is the combination of flat rockered tail with a wide area.
If FangoWango can’t turn, assuming he knows how to turn, then he needs to customize that board to have more tail rocker, or narrower width in the fin area. Or ride a slower wave, where that extra foam/ flatness is helpful.
All other things being equal, anything past the amount of foam and surface area needed to keep the board planing on the surface of the water will hinder turning.
A good customized board is balanced for the riders weight, and speed.
…I say that due to your other sentence that sounded like a “concept”; anyway, I still think the only solution that he s got now is to change the stance and back foot positions, as I mentioned previously; yes, changing the fins help, but not too much; he should change the toe in and cant mainly then start to change templates.
my mates firewire dominator has a pretty flat rocker at the tail, and although im no big fan it does cutback very nicely on a decent wave without any forcing at all
bottom turning on backhand though is a completely different story
how the board feels when you turn it and how you look when your surfing are two different things! heaps of guys round here do flicky little turns in small surf but its not a “cutback” its just a flicky little turn toward the white water. a cutback is a full rail buried, large radius turn that displaces buckets of water. anything else aint a cutback. your surfing adjusts to the type of board your riding . like that hayden shape would turn peice of piss. look at the videos of guys riding them. they look super easy to turn and ride. like i said its technique. boards with thicker rails are easiest to cutback providing you have enough weight to bury it. all the tail bulsh!t is nonsense. listen to reverb, you have to move your feet. when you think its time to do a cutback, its too late you have to “set it up in your bottom turn”