It’s actually not my board but a friends. I talked him into selling his two funboards and buying a real longboard that floats him. It’s a 10’ x 23" x3 1/4" with a 2+1 setup with a center Hatchet fin.
He’s 6’2" 240 LBS. 40 years old.He’s had back surgery so he was struggling on his former boards.I would like to think I made the right choice for him.It sounds like he’s happy with the paddling
and wave catching but he’s having trouble turning it. I put the hatchet fin almost all the way foreward ? Are these hatchet fins stiffer that most? Should we ditch the sidebites?
I’ve always found longboards to be easier to turn as singlefins. I think the general rule of thumb is 1 inch per foot of board for longboards. Beyond that your friends skill level might be the missing link…I’ve never really seen a funboader who can actually surf. I’ve also surfed on a funboard, I was expecting the best of both worlds with easy paddling and easy turning and was greeted with neither.
Since I can’t assess the rider, I’ll have to go with too much fin. Of course, you didn’t state the hatchet length, but usually we’re talking about a lot of surface with those fellows.
I see a lot of longboarders with way too much fin surface back there! With anything but the tiniest side-bides, a 7.5, okay 8" if you insist, center fin of a classic template (think Rainbow Rake, California Classic, etc.) is more than ample.
Either ditch the side-bites (although I still don’t think a hatchet is the best turning fin for a non-technical surfer), or keep 'em and replace the center fin. Or, get a more user-friendly 9.5 -10" center fin to ride as a single. Stay away from the super-rakey jobs and the ultra retros… if he could ride those well he’d already be turning with the set-up as is.
It's actually not my board but a friends. I talked him into selling his two funboards and buying a real longboard that floats him. It's a 10' x 23" x3 1/4" with a 2+1 setup with a center Hatchet fin.
He's 6'2" 240 LBS. 40 years old.He's had back surgery so he was struggling on his former boards.I would like to think I made the right choice for him.It sounds like he's happy with the paddling
and wave catching but he's having trouble turning it. I put the hatchet fin almost all the way foreward ? Are these hatchet fins stiffer that most? Should we ditch the sidebites?
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Wow, 240 lbs., he should be able to turn anything under his feet! I don't know where you are (there is a place on your profile to enter location), but if you're in So. Cal. look up Albert C. Elliot of ACE surfboards, he can shape the ideal board for your friend.
Prid. He was not having fun on his funboards.I would rather catch waves and not turn than bob around all day.
Heres a picture of the board below.
Can’t get to into fin placement as I don’t have the board.It’s a standard 2-1 setup with an 8.5" hatchet and the smaller side fins.Smaller than thruster fins. Kinda like quad trailers maybe? Here’s a link to the fin.It’s the IFH-1.
Thanks prid. I have a 9.5" california classic. Think I’ll try that all the way up. Should I take out the sidebites or not? He’s not surfing very steep waves.
I’m a big fan of the Wingnut longrake shape on a fairly similar 9’10" ridden as a single fin. I have no problem turning that board with that fin, but it was very sluggish with a higher volume fin (but a better nose rider). Alternatively, leave in the sidebites and run something like an IFC.
Coming from a fun shape, he also might not realize that a board like that is going to ride best if you walk around on it…it is going to be tough to turn if he camps out in the middle…which certainly seems to be a theme I’ve noticed watching people switch to larger boards.
As Pridemore points out, a 10' LB is hardly "quick" in any fin configuration compared to a shorter board. The physics of swingweight is pretty obvious here. However, a LB can be made to turn relatively quicker by altering the fin set-up.
I regularly surf my modern LBs as 2+1, moving to single-fin in surf under shoulder-high. (I rarely surf my classic single-fin noseriders in over shoulder-high conditions, just not the right tool for the job) I've experimented with a variety of fins in both configurations. To "loosen" (again, relative term) a 2+1, move the center fin forward so that the leading edge of the center fin is inline with the trailing edge of the side-bites. (I learned that right here on Sways many years ago) This allows for a shorter turning radius. Reversing this positioning causes more drawn-out turns. As for center fin template (either in 2+1 or single) less rake/more upright gives a more "pivoty" feel, while more rake draws out the turn. Tip width also has bearing, as does base width and aspect ratio but that's another story. And, total fin area should also be considered.
Another fin configuration for LBs, which you only see on Infinitys, is the use of two full-sized twin fins in the standard side-bite position, with a smaller trailer in the center-fin position. Steve Boehne calls this his "Cluster V" set-up, i.e. clustered fins with tail V. I surfed this config for years, and found it very responsive with plenty of drive, but didn't like the tendency of the tail to slip out when on the nose.
Personally, in 2+1, I use the smallest center fin I can get away with that still holds the tail in when noseriding (Right now that's a 7.25" Yater pivot fin, having gone through L-Flex, Fry Flex, Parrish Cutaway, Wingnut Cutaway, TA Performer, WR Power and maybe some others) and I have it pushed up to the trailing edge of the TA side-bites. It gives me the "feel" I'm after. And that's important. You need to experiment with your fins until you find the "feel" you enjoy, the one that suits your style of surfing. Take advantage of your "removeable" fin boxes. That's what they're for.
try it without, then if not getting the pivot ( ease to initiate the turn ) try some small but upright side bites…and tinker with the back fin, move it as far forward as it goes, then if too loose, move it back alittle bit each surf til feels bout right…
option might be to consider shorter board in future but use EPS for better floatation, so this way you get tha float but dont need the length to gain the volume…glass it light with epoxy ( obviously as you got to ) so you have the float but reducing the swing weight ( overall weight too ) so it requires less effort to turn…combine it with the right planshape, rockers and fin set up, you can make a good board with similar float at maybe 8 ft …just a thought…good luck with the fin mods…
The advise you have been given is all over the map. The California rake is a good choice to loosen up that board, but i recomend 9 or 8.5 set in the middle of the box with no sidebites. Get rid of the "Hatchet". They're stiff. A round tail or rounded pin works great with a Calif. rake. That's the fin I recomend nine times out of ten. You don't need to do anyhing else. Add the sidebites when surfing steep waves.
like mcding said ,,, dump the hatchet fin ,, use a cali rake fin in the center of the box or move it forward some if you must
10 ftrs with a round pin tail are for smooooth turning ,,, if you try to whip it around it will stall or sink the tail. cause there aint much surface area in the tail
you wont need the side bites for anything big,, just move the center fin back
Thanks Mcding and Kensurf. Think I’ll take you up on this. Unfortunatley I only have a 10" Cali classic. Guess It’ll do for now. Probably better than the hatchet.
Anyone interested in a fiberglass hatchet fin??? He got a sweet deal on this board by the way. I want it too.
If he ends up running it strictly as a single fin, should we sand the tucked edge’s in the tail? I’ve read here on Swaylocks that you shouldn’t have a hard edge in the tail with single fins? True or not?
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... dump the hatchet fin ,, use a cali rake fin in the center of the box or move it forward some if you must
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Hey Ken - Are you talking about a fin like this?
How do those fins work with a wide tail egg? I have a fat tailed egg, 7 footer, single fin, and I'm trying to pick the best fin for it. I set it up with side bites, and didn't like it, so I'm going back to single fin. I had a 7" fin in it. It seemed a little skittish and tracky at takeoff in bigger waves, then it would mellow out once it was out on the shoulder - I want something with a smoother feel to it.
I've been looking at these swept back fins, lately, and wondering if this might be the one.
I use this in my 10'0 longboard. it's the Fiberglass Fin co Sparky fin. It's a great blend of both worlds. great holding power, but loose enough to turn with out much effort. Larry's got a bunch of great fins, and he cut his teeth on single fins, he knows his stuff.
Set it up so the trailing edge is parallel with the tail.
The Cal Classic is a great fin too. What you need is a fin with some rake to it. Rake will save you...embrace the rake. Ditch the hachet fin....
I'd rather ride it without a fin, than to use on of thise things.
Looking at the shape of the board (pulled in nose and tail), and considering the reported size of the intended rider (6-2, 240) the Cali Classic (or Josh Faberow Flex for the flexy version) would be a better choice than the Hatchet in small/slow waves. But at shoulder-high or bigger, I believe the 2+1 set-up is a better choice for this board and this rider. Especially if the intended rider wants to make frequent, shorter-radius turns across the trimline. Of course, if his preferred style is bottom-turn, glide, kick-out, then the Cali or anything similar will do.
One question that hasn't been address is the presence of V in the last third of the bottom. You can make all the fin changes in the world, but if there's little or no V in the tail of a 10-0, it will be difficult to turn.
Looking at the shape of the board (pulled in nose and tail), and
considering the reported size of the intended rider (6-2, 240) the Cali
Classic (or Josh Faberow Flex for the flexy version) would be a better
choice than the Hatchet in small/slow waves. But at shoulder-high or
bigger, I believe the 2+1 set-up is a better choice for this board and
this rider
