Stumbled across this and thought there were some interesting techniques for getting a nice void-free low-resin content fin panel.
http://s75.beta.photobucket.com/user/ebayPCI/media/FIBERGLASSLAYUP.mp4.html
Fast-forward to 1:00 to get to the process, but that first minute of slides has some really good technical info on achieving best performance of the laminate.
This was from a model RC site, those guys are always trying new stuff to get the lightest/stongest planes they can get.
never been able to get a panel without little micro bubbles. tried thinning resin, rollers, etc. any tricks???
I have the same trouble. Maybe it’s in the choice of background music…you ain’t got a thing if you ain’t got that swing…
...interesting ...
thanks , lawless !
thanks jrandy for letting me know
as soon as the computer is out of action , is when people contact me ...murphy's law eh ?
not sure if that was only 9 layers of cloth that were laminated in that film clip ?
I only use a brush on the glass pane , to coat it , and the first one or two layers of cloth .
Then , I use a roller , like the guy did at the end of the clip .
I lay down four or five layers of cloth at a time , using the roller
for fcs tabbed fins that I make , I usually lay down at least 7 lots of five layers of cloth [ie: 35 layers of 4 or 6oz cloth] . I probably prefer having them "too thick" , than "too thin " , because I can grind away excess.
having said that , I HAVE once or twice layed up panels as thin as 20 layers , and built up the tabs [a bit tedious , but I just wanted to try a thinner , 'lesser foiled' fin ...I think from memory that they were the fairly ugly first fins I posted at the beginning of the 'my fin tinkerings' thread , which I ended up reshaping and thickening ...so there ya go eh ?
re: air bubbles ...the clip mentioned something about spreading the resin outwards , from memory ? Yes , bubbles have sometimes been a problem for me , too . No matter how slowly and carefully I thought I have layed up the panel , the little rascals sometimes make an appearance ?!
....? Perhaps it is possible to 'overwork' the resin ?
I'm not sure .
But , I guess as long as there are not DRY spots or delams in the fin panel , at least the panel is thoroughly wet out, though ...
By the way , this is only my experiences ,.... I am only one fin tinkerer on sways
It would be interesting to read what the pro finmakers [ halcyon , blakestah , probox larry , robin mair , and lokbox jimmi's ] , and any other finmakers here , experiences are , on these matters .....
stay tubed / tuned !
ben
…that s (in the clip) a very backyarder technique with presumptuous lingo.
If you lay down all the layers you need for a fin panel in that way you ll end with lots of bubbles and wasted time.
I m one of the few shapers that still made fins for most boards. I make the panels, foiling and glass them onto the boards.
Here 2 tricks to prevent bubbles: use a table with a glass, so you lam the layers onto that glass, then put a light under.
Is better to use less resin than too much, so tend to have a dry lam instead of gobs of resin running around.
I have a 3’ x 2’ 3/8" plate glass table with a flourescent under it, light good for transparancies, solid color go by instinct.
I drop only 2 layers at a time, wet under and above each time, I have a roll of 6 oz that is a bitch for air, but the 7 -1/2 oz is a no brainer, wets out in an instant and doesn’t have a bubble problem
I knew some of the pros would have some nuggets of wisdom to drop on this topic. Thanks for sharing.
Are the layups done all in one shot, or is the resin allowed to kick in between the groups of 2 or 5 layers?
Thanks for the nuggets too! -J
about the only time you want the panel to set up is, you’re going to hotcoat and put a color band between colors, otherwise it is asking for air when you start back up, the first layers need to be super saturated and left really wet when restarting.
I use multiple batches when doing a sheet for fin boxes, it would be bewteen 36 and 40 layers depending on the weight of the cloth, a very long time span to hope only one batch would not start to go, or catalyze so slowly that it takes days before popping it off the sheet.
Also very slow batch fin sheets tend to not wet back out well after foiling, I don’t know why, they seem to be completely set up, but the foiled fiber stays whited out during glassing it on. I don’t have time to let them sit for weeks before using them.
…hello man, its ok that way; also you can use UV cat in the hot coat; normally harden pretty well with many colors or help in low temps and high humidity weather.
The thing to avoid is to distort the panel, that would occur if you push it from the PVA without post curing (mostly if the panel is big and from only one side).
Store them from the side edge, to a wall.
Better to not start to cut the fins with the panels still “green”.
Here some fins with different techniques; all made with panels from the scratch. Hope you like them.
…hello man, its ok that way; also you can use UV cat in
the hot coat; normally harden pretty well with many colors or help in
low temps and high humidity weather.
The thing to avoid is to
distort the panel, that would occur if you push it from the PVA without
post curing (mostly if the panel is big and from only one side).
Store them from the side edge, to a wall.
Better to not start to cut the fins with the panels still “green”.
Here some fins with different techniques; all made with panels from the scratch. Hope you like them.
cheers Jim !
great to have your input on fins , thanks very much !
how long do your fin panels take to 'set up' ['gel'] ?
or to rephrase ...
if you are using ? polyester resin ? [yes?] for your fin panels ['fin sheets'] ,
how long do you leave the lam resined panel , before applying the filler ['sanding' / 'hotcoat'] resin coat ?
Mine stays tacky for usually an hour or two , before I apply the filler coat [ For me , this will sometimes be influenced by the seasons , and the 'wetness' [humidity] of the atmosphere too , I have found ]
cheers !
ben
cool , cheers for that reverb
I figured they split up the two big side runners into four , to loosen it up a bit .... perhaps not unlike twin keels reshaped / sized into smaller quads , eh ?
Nicely done Reverb. The clarity of the resin over the patterns is impressive. Are you at liberty to share your secret?
Jim, thanks for the clarification. So it is better to build the panel in one operation but to only laminate a couple layers at a time and keep mixing fresh resin (I think Ben has said that before too) so it doesn’t kick mid-panel.
I am now in the market for a used glass end table suitable for fin-making…
-J
thanks Reverb for the photos !
very nice fins ,
was the bonzer5 YOURS ? if so , HOW do you like it ?
and have you ridden / made [m]any bonzer3's ? those boards [ bonzer3's] still pique my curiousity !
jrandy , if you go ahead with it , is there any chance you could please take photos as you go , and let us know / see how you progress with it ?
I ask , because 'Sways' has some very experienced and helpful fin people on it , who can provide positive feedback and steer you into good results . Thanks , Jim , and reverb , and others in the past [bert burger , lokbox , probox larry , halcyon , tom at daumtooling ] who have contributed .
It would be fun to have a fin 'resources' part of swaylocks , where people went through the process [photodocumenting , as with bert's 'making wood fins' thread ] , to answer these sometimes re-occurring questions and to share techniques , hints , experiences [and photo evidence , so it is not all just talk . talk bores me , talk is cheap ...I want to see PHOTOS , proving something is actually being MADE , not just yakkity yak ]
cheers guys !
ben
…hello Jrandy,
well, almost all is on the previous comments by Jim P and me.
I use premium fiberglass too.
You can use a silk screen table or transform one.
-hello Fins, no, that s a board I made for a customer; however, my main board is a 5 finned bonzer type. The 3 finned version is a down the line design board; that design have speed and projection, but is not loose and “user friendly” as the 5 finned modern version.
…imagine those runners as a continuation of the channels, if you convert them in bigger sized fins like a quad you ll finish with a board that does not turn on a dime or turn in tight radius or eventually, you ll put much more strength (pressure) to perform maneuvers…and that s not good.
yes , because there are different channels in the bonzer5's , compared to the old bonzer3's channels , aren't there ? I had overlooked that ....
ben
