Home Shop Compressor - Spec's?

General Discussion
1

Hey Swaylokians,

I want to get a compressor for my garage. I’m trying to figure the right set-up. I know 230v is more efficient but more expensive. Oilless is more compact, but noisier and less durable. Then there gallons and horsepower to consider. I want to run a paint touch-up gun, brad nailer, die grinder, etc. I won’t run them too often. Just the occasional project.

If you use a compressor:

What type of compressor set-up are you running?

What are you using it for?

What are the limitations of what you’re using?

Any help is appreciated.

2

Ryan,

Search for “compressors”…it’s been gone over alot, and fairly recently too…sure you’ll find what you need there…

Pete

3

Thanks,

I should’ve done that first. I check this board somewhat regularly and didn’t remember the topic. I could’ve easily missed it.

4

Yes, the large tank(60 gallon) 240’s are the most effecient. Most of them require oil. They don’t kick on as often because of the large tank and when they do they pump up faster. If you are going to run even a small paint touch-up gun, you don’t want to have to wait on a compressor to build pressure. It will take you longer to paint a board and result in an uneven paint job. You can use a small tank compressor to run a brad-nailer or blow off projects. I’ve got a little gallon and a half that I use for blowing of my shaped blanks, repairs etc. Your best bet is middle ground. You can get a 30 gallon 130 from Sears for about $250. A 15 gallon for $199 0r a few dollars less. They are both oil-less and the upright model takes up less space. The Sears compressors are warranteed. That’s a big plus. The Home Depot stuff is OK too, minus the better Sears warranty though. Hope that helps. The larger tank is the ticket. I know a glass shop that uses a 30 gallon and they usually only have to wait on it when there are more than one person painting, grinding laps etc.

5

Minimun requirements 5hp x 20 gal. Don’t let anyone talk you into something smaller.

Doesn’t matter what brand, but the better brands will run smoother / quiet. I have a Husky Home Depot 5/20 that sounds like a 7500 hp Pratt Whitney jet turbine engine with blown berings. The only thing you can’t do well is sand blast. But perfect for almost all other applications. But you will be put back about $250.00.

-Jay

6

…Resinhead is right…

…but if you re a hobbyist you can go lesser…or if you only do airbrush with water based colors (I paint my boards with 1/2HP only)…

7

I airbrush with my 1/8 hp badger for touch up and art work. I have a HVLP 3 stage for spraying large areas of board color, walls, fences, cats, dogs etc. But the 20 gal 5 hp is the only thing that will atomize a cup gun properly…something that could spray a surfboard, or a Mack truck. Also you can run a nail gun…the kind that shoots 16d, not just a little brad nailer, and you could run air tools too.

You’ll become a compressor junkie once you get it going. Painting s*it, blowing up soccer balls, rafts, inner tubes…rotating your car tires, running a power washer, disk sander, sand blaster. I mean if your going to buy one, get it right from the start. If it’s a cash issue, get one used in the classified ads or craigs list.

8

You will probably see my blather in the Archives, but;

For small stuff, I run a 14 amp ( all compressor horsepower claims are lies ) Hitachi - that includes up to 2 nail guns ( in the hands of old guys) or a smaller air impact wrench or similar stuff. It’ll be outrun by a die grinder and sander, so for that ( and the sandblaster ) I keep a much larger, 220V Emglo around, which I used to use for a crew of five guys with framing guns.

Oil, not oilless. They last longer. And the sound they make won’t make ya want to hit 'em with an axe.

Tank size - look, the compressor runs just as much with small or large tanks. Small tanks, runs shorter but more often, big tank it runs less often but longer time - for the same pump SCFM. Smaller machines are more portable, easier to get to a job or project.

Good hoses, bad ones will make you crazy. I recommend neoprene, the plastic ones of all sorts are miserable things.

hope that’s of use

doc…

9

Go to Harbor Freight - great compressors at great prices. I bought a great vertical 30 gal, oil based (nice and quiet) for $120! Stay away from Sears Craftsman - the quality has nose-dived in recent years and parts are hard to find.

10

What type of compressor set-up are you running?

Craftsman 30 Gallon

What are you using it for?

Mostly Impact wrench, ratchet, and small airbrush. I’ve used grinders/sanders and never been frustrated by lack of performance.

What are the limitations of what you’re using?

None as far as power. But the thing is rediculously loud. I got it with the “Accessory Set” which was nice since it didn’t add to the cost for me at the time, but the impact wrench is worthless and you’ll want another air line. At the time I bought it, it seemed like the most bang for your buck compressor that could handle the tools I wanted to use. I got the vertical style which I highly recommend. Its heavy but wheels around the garage with ease and has a smaller footprint. The compressor has served me well and I’d have a hard time justifying spending more on a compressor for how often I use it, but if it ever needs to be replaced I’d want a quieter oiled compressor - especially since that means my oilless didn’t last and doc says the oiled last longer :slight_smile:

You get what you pay for. I think 30 gallons is on the small side but okay for running grinders/sanders for extended periods. 6.4 cfm is fine for most tools except I think HVLP paint guns need more if I remember correctly. Oilless are REALLY loud. I’d consider the 30 gallon, 6+ cfm, oilless class of compressor the minimum for adequate occassional home garage use. Go oiled if you live in close proximety to fussy neighbors or want to work after 9pm. Quality, efficient tools can help make up for lesser powered compressors. Pick all of the tools you could imagine yourself wanting and read their specs before buying a compressor.

11

Tons of good stuff. Thanks.

I’ve heard from everywhere that the oiless are screamers. I live in a townhome and the sounds from the garage carry. When I replaced my garage door, I spent the extra money to get the insulated type. Attempting to be a good neighbor. The sound alone is probably enough to keep me from the oilless.

The portability is damn tempting though.

Liki, I was in Harborfreight. Those compressors looked suspect. Glad to hear having luck with’em. Sears bad quality? Seems like a contradiction. Harborfreight good, Sears bad.

I’ll keep looking. Lowe’s had a pretty good looking unit. 45 gal upright, 10 cfm @ 90, 12 cfm @ 40. $419. Pretty expensive and not mobile. I’m pretty sure it’ll handle anything I want to do, but it’s a little overkill.

I’m looking new and used so it may come down to what I find used.

All the input has definitely helped. I’ve got a much better idea of what the options and trade-off are.

Thanks again.

12
Quote:

Tons of good stuff. Thanks.

I’ve heard from everywhere that the oiless are screamers. I live in a townhome and the sounds from the garage carry. When I replaced my garage door, I spent the extra money to get the insulated type. Attempting to be a good neighbor. The sound alone is probably enough to keep me from the oilless.

The portability is damn tempting though.

Liki, I was in Harborfreight. Those compressors looked suspect. Glad to hear having luck with’em. Sears bad quality? Seems like a contradiction. Harborfreight good, Sears bad.

I’ll keep looking. Lowe’s had a pretty good looking unit. 45 gal upright, 10 cfm @ 90, 12 cfm @ 40. $419. Pretty expensive and not mobile. I’m pretty sure it’ll handle anything I want to do, but it’s a little overkill.

I’m looking new and used so it may come down to what I find used.

All the input has definitely helped. I’ve got a much better idea of what the options and trade-off are.

Thanks again.

Recommend you also check out Northern Tool. They have the cheap generic stuff (even Central Tool brand like Harbor Freight) but also carry name brands at reasonable prices. I’ve had some really bad experiences with Harbor (such as world-class-poor customer service) and none such with Northern:

http://www.northerntool.com/

-Samiam

13

'Sam,

Good call on Northern Tool. I get their catalog but for some reason they didn’t cross my mind.

What you guys think of this one?

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_861256_861256

It’s very portable and has the quiet pump, but has mediocre cfm and pulls 15 amps. Ouch. Just noticed the 1/4" outlet. I was advised against that.

This one has the spec’s but isn’t portable, and isn’t cheap.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=236704-48540-K7045V&lpage=none

Ugh! Decisions!

14

I should note that the Coleman advertised at Northern carries a hefty shipping price: ~$100 for truck freight to Myneckathewoods, MA, USA. Besides which - Coleman makes a pretty good cooler, good stoves and lanterns, but compressors? I wonder who is doing the actual warranty work?

On the other hand, that one at Lowes ( Kobalt? ) has some good stuff going for it: decent output, cast-iron cylinders, etc. You would probably want to run it off 220VAC current and hard-wired, not a plain old wall plug, and it will probably want a 15A/220V breaker on the circuit. If you need portability, hoses are cheap. Rather than trying to move the compressor, stretch another $14 length of hose.

Funny, isn’t it, how one compressor is ‘5 Peak HP’ and puts out 5 and change CFM at 90 PSI while another claims a mere three HP but puts out twice the air at 90 PSI. Gee, could they be making up numbers? Huh…maybe you oughtta be a bit leery of their other claims.

Couple other things

1/4" NPT threaded outlets are pretty much standard until you get into things like 1" drive impact wrenches and such. The inlet on most pneumatic tools is 1/4" NPT .

What tools are you using?

Quote:

I want to run a paint touch-up gun, brad nailer, die grinder, etc. I won’t run them too often

Okay, the touch up gun, no problem. Brad nailer, no biggie. Die grinders eat a fair amount of air, but you use 'em intermittently, so no biggie there.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=237232-67702-EC119SA&lpage=none is the upgrade from the jobbing around compressor I have and have used for some time. Two outlets, gauges and outlets are in a panel and not exposed to easy damage ( that’s the upgrade from mine - and a great improvement ) . Tank drains conveniently located ( which can be a big help, trust me on this) - this is a small, pro grade tool. The compressor/motor itself is apparently the same as the one I have something like four years experience with, and it’s never failed, running just about everything from brad nailers to dual sanders. Especially two guys working with framing guns in new construction. I’d be happy running a small construction job with one. More info here including an online ( pdf) owner’s manual.

And Hitachi ain’t going away real soon, unlike Coleman’s compressor line and whoever Kobalt is. You’ll be able to get parts for quite a while.

hope that’s of use

doc…

15
Quote:

I should note that the Coleman advertised at Northern carries a hefty shipping price: ~$100 for truck freight to Myneckathewoods, MA, USA. Besides which - Coleman makes a pretty good cooler, good stoves and lanterns, but compressors? I wonder who is doing the actual warranty work?

…

doc…

It’s a complicated tale of business shenanigans. In 1986, Coleman bought a farm equipment manufacturer named Ag-tronics so they could add generators to their camping equipment line. The following year they created the Coleman Powermate division from it. 1994 - Coleman Powermate buys Sanborn, a Minnesota air compressor company. 1998 - Sunbeam (the MixMaster company) buys both Coleman and Coleman PM and becomes American Household. 2005 - Jarden, a consumer products conglomerate, buys Coleman and Sunbeam from AH, but evidently not Coleman PM. So now we have two completely different companies with rights to display the Coleman logo on their respective products (presumably, the merger agreements are rife with non-compete clauses). So it goes in the somewhat murky world of corporate merge and purge. And you thought you were confused before… BTW, to get remotely on topic again, while truck freight from Minnesota (Northern Tool) can be pricey, they periodically run free freight promotions.

-Samiam

16

When it comes to tools I awlways go for more power and guts. aircompressors are only as good as there CFM rating, the more the better. There is a big dif. between 7 cfm and 10 cfm. A good hvlp spray gun usualy needs around 12 to 14 cfm to work right.DA sanders about the same. I dont know much about brands but I would go for the most cfm I could aford and hope for the best.

17

Doc,

As always, you input is useful.

Yah, I thought about the portability. From where I plan to put the compressor, with less than 100 ft. of hose I could reach any crown molding or facia board on my whole house. Portability problem solved. The likelyhood that I’d ever need to move further, say off-site, is very small, so I’m getting over the portability thing. I could always borrow or rent a small unit if I really needed it.

You’re right about the freight from Northern. Prohibitive. I’d pay near the same as the Lowe’s compressor and get less. Sam, the freight probably won’t be cheap enough no matter who hauls it.

You think hard wire on the 220? Is there much loss on a plug? I could hard wire but if I want to move it for cleaning or maintainence or something a plug would be easier.

One thing I have heard from three different painting sources is that it’s recommended put 25’ of line on and incline between the compressor and the output. This distance allow for the warm compressor air to cool and condensate befor it gets to a water and oil filter or paint gun. You put a water trap with a drain valve at the low end for the condensate to collect. They say this really improves dryness of air at the output. I don’t have anywhere that I can run 25’ on an incline so I came up with this arrangement. With 8ft. risers and 6" turns, it gives me 34’ for copper which should allow for plenty rapid cooling. Plus it’s all vertical which will make it more difficult for the water to make it through than a simple incline.

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18
Quote:

Doc,

As always, you input is useful.

Yah, I thought about the portability. From where I plan to put the compressor, with less than 100 ft. of hose I could reach any crown molding or facia board on my whole house. Portability problem solved. The likelyhood that I’d ever need to move further, say off-site, is very small, so I’m getting over the portability thing. I could always borrow or rent a small unit if I really needed it.

You’re right about the freight from Northern. Prohibitive. I’d pay near the same as the Lowe’s compressor and get less. Sam, the freight probably won’t be cheap enough no matter who hauls it.

You think hard wire on the 220? Is there much loss on a plug? I could hard wire but if I want to move it for cleaning or maintainence or something a plug would be easier.

One thing I have heard from three different painting sources is that it’s recommended put 25’ of line on and incline between the compressor and the output. This distance allow for the warm compressor air to cool and condensate befor it gets to a water and oil filter or paint gun. You put a water trap with a drain valve at the low end for the condensate to collect. They say this really improves dryness of air at the output. I don’t have anywhere that I can run 25’ on an incline so I came up with this arrangement. With 8ft. risers and 6" turns, it gives me 34’ for copper which should allow for plenty rapid cooling. Plus it’s all vertical which will make it more difficult for the water to make it through than a simple incline.

If I was going to do a permanent installation, and had the time to “do it right”, I’d be tempted to buy the compressor head, motor, and tank separately, and hard-pipe the outlets the way it’s commmonly done in auto repair shops (make certain to use something adequately rated for the psi, shrapnel is harmful to surfboards and other nearby soft objects). Then you could build in your incline, traps, and drains. Condensation is going to be pretty dependent on ambient temps; if the A/C from your townhouse infiltrates the garage to any great degree, you probably don’t need anything like 25’. I’m thinking that measurement is for rubber hose anyway, metallic tubing should radiate better than that. It should also be possible to add fins to the pipe to increase cooling. The items that are used on copper pipe to make cheap hot water radiators would probably be just the ticket. There are also “active” filters that use an aggressively hydrophilic chemical, but that gets expensive and labor intensive.

There would be more up-front investment in money and time this way, but in return you’d be able to go “best of breed” for the individual components, which would in turn let you be more selective about what gets bought and shipped from where. The tank is why integrated compressors ship truck freight, and one tank is pretty much like another. Motor and compressor head could go UPS at a much more economical rate. It could also save money (and possibly time) over the long haul, since you’d be able to upgrade and/or repair those components individually. Re Northern and shipping generally, I agree. It’s probably a bargain for our Great Lakes surfing brethern, but what we really need is a similar outfit on both Left and Right Coasts…

-Samiam

19

Sam,

Yah, as I’ve been looking into this compressor thing, I’ve noticed how people are custom building their own. It definitely allows for for some immaginative configurations. That water is too deep for me. I’m just not up for another project. I want a package that I can install and go with.

I will put the piping in as an aftercooler though. I hate water in my compressed air.

I hear you on the pipe rating. I’ve looked into it. Copper plumbing is rated well above the 135 psi of the air. Most municpal water systems are in the 50 to 70 psi range. That’s static pressure and that doesn’t account for dynamic loads like waterhammer. It’s in the ballpark of an air compressor when you consider other types of compressed gas systems out there.

Here’s a link to the Copper Developement Association page of tables.

http://www.copper.org/…s/cthindex_table.htm

If you want, check the tables for the rated working pressures for copper pipe Types L & M which are the most common types in stores around here. As you’ll see, if I use 1/2" type L, and I don’t anneal it when soldering, my allowable working pressure will be 1242 psi. Even if I use type M and way overheat it, my working pressure will be 403 psi as a minimum. So, if I consider the rated working pressures of annealed type M up to un-annealed type L, I will have the following safety factors in relation to operating pressures.

At 135 psi operating pressure, the safety factor is 3.0 to 9.2

At 120 psi operating pressure, the safety factor is 3.4 to 10.3

Depending on pipe type and if I anneal it.

I’m comfortable with those safety factors. Beside, 135 psi won’t cause shrapnel. A leak will just hiss.

Obcess much?

20

I like those safety factors of 3 and higher (I like the 10 a lot). Makes me think less about the Q/C guy at the tubing plant who rationalizes passing product he shouldn’t by tellng himself, “What th’ hey, so somebody gets a little water on their basement floor”… The 1/2" copper is probably fine :-> I visualize copper tubing tearing at the limit, not exploding, which is probably what that iron pipe would have done. Here’s the link to that page, in case there is other info of use. Warning - it’s written in Canadian…

http://tinyurl.com/fp8n6

-Samiam