How to open a surf shop or why not to. Series With Doc.

We have had this discussion before, but Doc and I were having fun with the idea of doing a series on Surf Shop owner ship and the potential, pitfalls and etc.

Here is my my first entry:

If you have decided to open a surf shop, it is my opinion the first thing to remember is you are in a real business world where you can lose alot of money if you make a very small mistake and the chances of making alot of money is almost nill. However, you are for the most part not going to deal with people who act in a business like manner or think in Business terms.

This certainly does not mean some have not made a mint owning a surf shop nor that true business people do not exist in the Surf shop business and surf industry in general, but…

The first real question you might ask yourself is “Why in the world do I want to own a surf shop”? Take your time on this one, because you can save yourself alot of money, if the reason is because you want to go surfing and enjoy the surfing lifestyle. You will not do much of either in the early years. It can be enjoyable if you have a true love for the art and are willing to simply get by for awhile.

The thing to decide is what type of surf shop you want to own. One type is one that predominately sells surfboards and related items, with small amounts of non name brand or your own name brand clothing. This type is out of the question unless you live in an area where the interest in surfing and population of surfers is high. Also; unless your pretty well known and respected as a shaper or surfer and been around awhile, this type will be hard.

The other type and most common is a surf shop that is heavy on name brand clothing such as Quiksilver, Volcom, or Billibong and sells mostly advertised surfboards seen in magazine ads along with possibly carrying a local shaper or your own label made in China. More than likely you will carry popouts from surftech or the like.

If you go the second route, expect to drop a minimum of $40,000. You can start cheaper if you find a small location with cheap rent, but your asking for problems if it does not take right away.

Your going to have to deal with something completely unprofessional called Surf industry politics. This is where the older more established shop thinks he has the rights to all the surf business in your area and tells all of the majors (Quik, Volcom, Billibong, Hurley, Oneill ) not to sell to you or he will drop or seriously cut back on orders. There may be a great deal of yelling and screamin at the rep. with you in mind. What this will mean is if you are too close (like the same city sometimes) these companies will give you a hard time about opening you up with their clothing. (Sounds stupid huh) If they do open you, it will be with the demand or expectation that you must give them a minimum order (usually between $2500 and $4000 depending on how much they feel like discouraging you). This is the one business in the world, where companies turn away good business because of ridiculous and boneheaded ego trips and lack of vision. It only works because it is still a fairly new industry. You will now find out first hand what it is like to deal with 45 year old 15 year olds. These are people who are middle age with the critical thought ability of a 15 year old. Remember one thing about those in the industry. They will never forget a slight to their ego.

How to deal with surf industry politics: Don’t buy into it at all. Don’t talk about our competitors regardless of the bad things they say about your shop or you peronsally (and they will) Don’t dare give some company Rep. a minimum order. If thats the only way to get the line. Pass and go to another line. Take my word for it, you can’t afford minimums in the early years.

Never ever trust or believe what a Rep. tells you. There are really good Reps. out there, but most of them are starving and will sell their young to simply stay in the surf business so they can remain a teenager for life. Even the good ones, will push items on your store that you either don’t need or cannot afford. Keep it very basic in the begining. If a major opens you, go deep with this line and use your own line to add flavor. Two solid lines, will be about all you can afford and not look watered down. keep it simple. Tee shirts, Sandles, Boardshorts. Some hats. Do not go into other areas right away. Stay clear of shoes until you have learned the business well. There is no in between with shoes. You either go big or it’s best to leave it alone. Big means at least $10,000 just in shoe inventory. In which you will get a whopping 35% if your lucky.

If you cannot get a major line and you plan or being a surf clothing department store that carries boards (type two) then you may want to reconsider opening. Trying it with only the B lines and worse will waste your money, your time and eventually put you out. I know some that hang in there because they have a huge skateboard or surfboard business to keep the bills paid (barely) but most are simply living week to week and not paying taxes. Which brings up another point. If you think you can fool the department of revenue and not pay all of your sales tax. Think again. They are smarter than you are and you will get caught. Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s. Or you will regret it. Do not believe what any tells you if they say different.

Stay clear of doing team guys. You will be tempted if you surf, but fight it off. Even a good loyal team guy is rarely worth the discounts on clothing and boards he obtains and 95% will jump ship at a dimes better deal. If it goes sour, they will run their mouth about you to anyone that will listen. Most go sour, so why bother. Let the other shops deal with this area. If what you have is worth it’s mettle, you will have real paying customers.

Discounts: Don’t give them unless something is put on sale or even better have a sale rack and point. Once you start giving discounts you can never go back. Same with selling cheap surfboards.

Doc,

Take it from here and I will ad another later.

Discounted surfing related merchandise might benefit both the retailer and the customer by attracting more business because of the better prices. Many, if not most, surfers don’t have a lot of money to spend because of their age and employment status, so it seems logical that they would be looking for a good purchase price. In my area, there is a discount surf shop, which inititially was very small, but now has grown substantially. So. maybe that’s one avenue to be explored, start out small, have good prices and grow.

Theres a small shop where I live that opened up next to an HIC, there doing great. They dont sell clothes at all just boards and other surfboard related things like wax, fins, videos, ect. They have been expanding, every time I go there they add on, I think in the next couple of years they will have the whole complex there in. There prices arent all that bad, fins are retail but the boards go for reasonable prices and they will usually knock $100-200 off the sticker price for me if I pay cash and the owners are just good people, that is the reason why so many people go back.

Many so-called discount surf shops are very often related to a regular retail place (heavy name-brand types per Doc). They just take last years clothing/wetsuits from the regular store and move them to the new place with 25-40% off (to try and break even). It’s easier to just have another place rather than trying to find a buyer for old merchandise (usually those guys who sell at swap meets). Discount shops also sometimes sell boards and accessories from small scale local manufacturers (not 1st quality stuff). It’s interesting in Doc’s article about the shoes. You can always tell if the discount store is connected to a bigger place by the amount of shoe inventory. I’m also told that girls/women’s surf clothing is a worse retail deal than the shoes.

I think the main consideration in opening a surf shop is the profit margins on boards. There is a very high density of manufacturers and retailers in my area. The average margin on a board is about 35%. No other business I know of would take on anything with only a 35% return. Most of the people I know in the industry who have been doing it for over 10 years and just get by, rationalize that at least it’s kept them from submitting to the corporate culture. They’re so twisted by the surf business that they’d never last 1 day in that environment anyhow so they really don’t have an alternative. If you want time for surf and board building, start a business that will make real money and give you more free time. You won’t get either in the surf biz, and may even wind up hating surfing in the end.

Well put Solo, i see it’s EXACTLY the same all around the world…

Coque.

My personal opinion on the future of surf shops, is like the little shop someone mentioned that was next to HIC. Small shops, selling their own brands directly from manufature to the public. They can keep prices down and make nice margin. Low margins on surfboards do not mean much if you have a board that sell and the ability to sell. Think about it. If you mark a board up $100.00 You have to sell four pair of boardshorts at full price to make the same $100.00. A good shop even in an area of lower interest should be able to sell a minimum of 35 boards a month. The best is to team up with a good shaper and do alot of customs. You don’t need as much inventory then. Used boards are great, but some of the junk on the market will stink up your shop if you are not careful.

If you look around you can get your own boardshorts made for about $10.00 with your label. You are then promoting yourself and not Quik or the other sellout brands. Remember, most of these companies are now going direct to the customer. Why would you want to support your competition?

Don’t buy cheap back yard boards by non experienced shapers. It will kill your reputation. Better to go with the best available and pay the price and get the markup. You don’t want all the business, just your own share. If what you have is good. The rest will come around.

This is controversial, but I would never sell another pointed nosed shortboard from my own shop again. They are simply not the right choice for most surfers and the surfers that will pay don’t ride them. The ride longboards and wider thicker shorter boards. Most exept for a few over 30 that feel riding a pointed nose is still a sign of being able to cut it. Most of the rest opt for more waves and better float.

Educate your surfboard customers. You will never go wrong selling a beginer the right board in place of the popular board and if they insist on the popular board that will not float them. Ask to pass on the sale. I have had this make customers who later trust you and will buy most of their goods from you because you were not simply trying to make a sale.

Do not hire Employees until you absolutely have to and when you do expect stuff to walk off the racks and for discounts to be given when you are not around. Best to hire family and even then…

hey solo…good stuff! you cant learn this stuff in an MBA curriculum…there’s an opportunity in there between the lines but havent had the bulb go off yet…

theres a local longtime shop in my area that recently re-modeled the store with a bit of an expansion…i gotta admit it looks great but 95% of the inventory is expensive name brand clothing (thats ok) and he has a nice inventory of name brand boards (CI, Lost, etc)…the boards dont sell very fast but at least he carrys them…overall its a good shop run by a real surfer (and businessman) and Im happy for the guy

Let me add a little- Solo and I are putting this together from our years in the biz, some of it has been said before and some is new -

‘discounts’ - look, you knock $100 off a board, that is basicly all the profit, unless you are marking them up to an obscene degree. Typical markup is more like list price +shipping/boxing/etc + color charge + fin charge + $50-75 = retail. That keeps you competitive. A $100 discount on a board with that markup? Good freakin’ luck. Oh, and lets not forget that anybody buys a board, they expect a t-shirt, wax-for-life and a cord to come with it. And if they don’t get it, see ya.

Easy credit terms from a board maker? Fat chance, unless you are doing literally hundreds of boards with them. Most other ‘surf’ companies too, and their credit terms make Rocco on the corner with his ‘vigorish’ look kind and generous.

Backyard boards. I don’t carry 'em and I warn people I don’t stand behind repairs on some that are extra cheezy. Protect yourself by protecting your customers. Let somebody else subsidise a garage shaper’s learning curve.

The real money is in what’s ‘keystone’ priced: accessories, etc. That is a 100% markup over wholesale. Your own label, providing that the stuff doesn’t explode when it gets wet, is a beautiful thing. You get money for it and it does your advertising for you. Maybe make a little less than keystone on it, if it is a good, durable, well made product, cos then your credibility goes through the roof. And street credibility is everything in this biz.

Some people will come through your door and they want a Quickabong t-shirt and they won’t be satisfied with anything else. They will leave when you don’t have it. That’s show biz. You can’t carry everything and you shouldn’t try.

Advertising…look, for an easy demonstration of how advertising works, go out on the street with a wad of one dollar bills. Take a pen and write your name on each dollar bill. Hand them out to passers by. Soon, the money is gone, a few have made second passes and called in their friends to take a bite out of the sucker, and you have nothing.

Almost all ads, print or radio or whatever, are like that, you are throwing your money away. If you like seeing your name in print, neat, do up a word processor document and put your name on it a zillion times and print it out again and again until you run out of ink. Like hearing your name? Get a bunch of people to say it on a microphone amd play it back. Much cheaper and it accomplishes just as much. Think about how much you have to sell to pay for the store, the product, the utilities, the other expenses, the insurance, the salaries…and the damn advertising. Right, your one ad dollar has to generate $100 in sales to justify itself…and it never does.

A possible exception to that: websites. If they can generate sales straight off the site, all you have to do is ship the items and check your bank statement. Only works if you can be competitive on prices. And bear in mind that one of the things I do is write and sell e-commerce websites, so my perception is skewed.

Egos- lots of people want to own a surf shop and boost their egos, same as in the restaurant biz and bar biz. Those don’t last long, cos they don’t get that it’s business, not personal. Don’t get your ego tied up in it, you’ll only hurt in the end.

Non-sales - absolutely right! You wanna be there for the long haul, so you want to make a base of customers who think you are the absolute nutz. The go-to guy if they have a question. I sometimes remark to my customers - " Look, you ever have anybody try so hard NOT to sell ya something?" - it’s true. Do well by them by not selling 'em something that’s wrong for 'em and you have their business and their word of mouth forever. Sell them something that is wrong for 'em, without a disclaimer at least, and you will be paying for it forever in bad word of mouth, and you never make up for that.

Every customer, every sale, is gonna make or break your business. Each and every one. With the exception of the Spicolis of this world, they all have memories. And they all have friends. Blow it, tick one off, and he and all his friends will be your adversaries, forever. Be polite, be generous with your time, knowledge and patience. That is what you are really selling.

You are not in the surf business, you are in the people business. Write that on the back of your hand and refer to it every 10 minutes.

Keeping employees honest - tough. You have to decide between the duds who are too dumb to steal and the ones who are smart enough to do the job right but also smart enough to rob you blind or give the store away to their buddies. Trust, but make it difficult to steal. Set up so you are the only guy who can give out freebies and nobody else, or authorise a freebie. There are a certain number of bars of free wax you have to give out to selected visitors, a few free t-shirts, that’s unavoidable. But limit it to the ones who will bring it back a hundred fold.

Reps- some are gems, some are exactly as described, forever teenaged clowns who want to play surfer forever. Good rule of thumb- the rep who tells you a line isn’t right for ya, him you can trust when something is right for ya.

Up above, I mentioned being good to the customers who will ‘bring it back a hundred fold’. Ok, that is not the 17 year old kid who surfs better than anybody else in the area. He will want his boards free, everything else free and stuff for all his buddies too. To blazes with him, he will bring in zero business and just be a drain on ya.

The guys to be good to? The 30-50 year old cats who can surf badly to ok, who get no respect, who have the money. They buy stuff, they don’t need credit terms, they buy stuff every year and they talk to each other a lot. Look at the email listservs on surfing, who is on 'em and exchanging info. And talking about the stuff they just bought and who from. Ah huh, it’s not the modern day spicoli-duude equivalents, it’s the older cats. Treat them well, have a coffee pot and paper cups for 'em.

Also, beach attendants and lifeguards. Somebody is new in town and they want to know where to go, who are they gonna ask? If they have friends coming in and the friends need rental boards, who will they ask? Ah huh- you got it. Freebie hats and t-shirts, no problem.

Now, you sell a board, and you make a few bucks, and it’s gone forever. Rent a board, you make a few bucks and it comes back and you can do it all over again. And you get a new customer-for-life if you don’t blow it. Again, generosity with your time and knowledge is key.

Used boards- Dood McDude has a 6’2" thruster he wants to sell, cheap money. Reason is, he has thrashed it. You don’t want it. It’s in lousy shape, your reputation will suffer. A 7’8" fun shape, on the other hand, in decent condition? Oh yeah, bring it on. That is the board for the guy in his early 30s that is just graduating from your rental fleet. And the start of a long and happy retail relationship.

anyhow- that’s a few… much more to come

doc…

Most surfshops I know make higher margins on clothing and accessories which allow them to stay in business. The so called sell outs are making buckets of cash. What I think hasn’t been stated is maintaining your shop, keeping the books clean, the legal requirements of running a business, managing employees, the building and zoning codes of your building and maintaining inventory. It’s hard work. Don’t forget the money needed and the P/L Part too.

Doing this …lets call it tail-first, to be polite, let me add a little to what Solo has put very, very well -

Why in heaven’s name would you want to open a surf shop? The money is lousy, the competition is cutthroat and as for the amenities…

Picture yourself finishing up work, driving to the beach, taking your board and having a great session…

Wrong. You didn’t get out before dark, cos you wanted to check the inventory. And do the books, and make the bank deposit, check over the sales slips, look through the catalogs, etc, etc. Couple customers stayed late and you couldn’t throw 'em out.

Wrong. You get to the beach, one of your customers is out of wax, so ya give him some and talk for a bit- customer relations, if you blow him off neither he nor his numerous friends will ever give you ten cents, ever again. Another customer comes along and has a bitch about something trivial, but it eats into your time, and all of a sudden, it’s dark.

Wrong. You left Dood McDude at the shop and he walked off and forgot to lock the door, so a lot more stuff walked off too, besides the $20 he tucked into his pocket for beer money.

Wrong. You got some time, but the ‘team kids’ from the other shop down the street got playful and keyed your truck, let the air out of at least 2 tires and generally had a good time stuffing seaweed and what was once dog food into your air intake. And stole the walkman out of your truck cab.

It can all happen. And I have seen it happen. Really. All of the above not only happened, it happened to me. And I would like to think I am one of the nicer guys in this biz around here.

It is both a real business and a child’s game with childish people in it. Myself not least of all. It can be a hell of a good time and a money pit. Some places, with some competitors, you will go down the tubes even if you do everything right, because somebody with more money behind them will keep pouring that money in to cover his losses just to beat you.

It happens.

Make an intelligent decision here- lets say you are making a buck mowing lawns. Lowball that, you have five grand tied up in truck, trailer and a couple industrial mowers, you charge $75 a lawn and you can do a half dozen lawns a day. Call it $20 a day for gas, another $20 a day in amortised maintainance. And you can blow off a day now and then when the waves are good. Let’s say you are clearing $300 a day. And getting a great tan.

Ok, now, you have a surf shop. Open seven days a week. Inventory costs, around $40 grand. Plus interest. Rent, utilities, licenses, insurance, all that, it costs you an easy $100 a day. Between boards, giveaways and stuff that won’t sell, you are clearing 25-30 cents on the dollar for wehat you sell. That is, for every ten bucks that goes across your counter you get to keep $2.50. Ok, how much do you have to sell to equal what you could make following a lawnmower around? Ah huh. $1200 in retail sales. Blow off a day to surf, and 20% of your customer base just went away. You start getting kinda white and pasty too.

Bummer, huh?

It can be a great time. If you are not feeding the wife and kids and needing that income. If you yourself are not depending on the income to eat and pay your personal bills. If nobody is playing cheezy little games. If nobody has a king of the hill ego problem.

It’s a people business. You’re not selling penicillin here, something people can’t live without. You’re not coming up with a cure for cancer in the back room. Nobody ever died cos they couldn’t have a surfboard that minute. They can shop around, they don’t have to buy from you and only you. Now you can order surf stuff online, and they really don’t need you at all.

People have to like you for you to stay in business, and you have to like them, even when they are childish, wrong or plain stupid. And you have to be relentlessly good, kind and helpful. No matter what they say to you or about you. Cos they can get the same stuff elsewhere, maybe cheaper. You have to add value somehow, with your time and advice and personality.

Do you like people?

Do you have enough so that you can suck it up and survive for a few years while you get established? And buy inventory? And hold it over for a while? And wait for the competition to give up on driving you out of business?

Right. Do you have the business acumen to make a marginal business, a lousy credit risk by the way- try getting a business loan for a surf shop, off the ground? Chase down the best deals on credit card services? Beat down the margins on product? And services? 'Cos the margins can kill ya or save ya. 2% difference on credit card charges can make the difference between your getting away to Panama for a month in winter or waiting tables at night to keep eating. That’s about 2% of your annual gross, you see.

And there is a whole lot of stuff like that.

So- you are bound and determined to get into the surf biz still, eh? Well, either you’re crazy or you just might make it.

Stick around, then. And Solo and I can maybe help you make a go of it.

hope it’s of use

doc…

O’Kay I’ve got some experience in this field, although it is dated. I managed La Jolla Surf Systems from 1983 to 1986. We had the exclusive for Channel Islands in San Diego County. Rusty’s wife Angie was his fiance and our women’s department manager. We used to sell Mach 7-7s by the truck load. We couldn’t get boards fast enough from Rusty or C.I… We put out a mail order catelogue that every reader of Surfing and Surfer Magazine recieved. We initiated the YMCA Surf Series for the local community. Oh yeah, and we sponsored David Eggars.

Things that make it work:

  1. Location

  2. Knowledgable and friendly employees

  3. Lot’s of reserve capital

  4. A strong relationship with your board manufacturer

  5. Community involvement

  6. Lot’s of T-shirts, disposable sandals and sun protection products

  7. An understanding of the cost per square foot to turn ratio for any given product

  8. Quality is key. Sell quality inexpensively. Never sell cheap. It will bite you in the ass.

  9. An offseason supplimental (i.e. catelogue sales and youth surf organizations)

  10. A good rental program and surf lessons

Things that don’t work:

  1. Shops squirrelled away in dried up strip malls

  2. I’m Bob Bitch’n attitudes

  3. Going deeply into debt to make your dream happen

  4. Trying to look grass roots while selling corperate BS

  5. Pissing off the neighbors and creating an atmosphere most mothers feel uncomfortable around

  6. Women’s Fashions

  7. Taking up space with merchandise that does not turn at a profit

  8. Products that fail to meet expectations are a death nail

  9. Not paying your taxes is not as a plan to make it through winter

  10. Not having property and liability insurance

i like shops that have a nice fitting room with a door that locks, and plenty of room to wiggle around when trying on wetsuits. you might want to keep that in mind, even if you don’t sell clothes.

Good boardsports trade mag:

http://www.twsbiz.com/twbiz

Lots of info on the business end of it.

A wise old man once told me, don’t mix business with pleasure.

Be successful enough at your day job so you can afford to enjoy your passions and your family. Don’t try and make a living off your passion, lest you risk turning it into business and losing passion for both.

Lawless,

    My entire life I've made my living off my passions. I've either worked in the boating industry or the surfing industry in every job I've had since I was 17. While sometimes I'll occassionally over do one, I can always go play with the other passion for a while. It all balances out.

interesting advice that i dont subscribe to…

the core problem is your chosen passion…some are passionate about making widgets so making widgets for a living doesnt feel like work

the surf industry market caters mostly to juveniles or juvenile minded people who have limited disposable income so its a difficult market with limited opportunity

It was in the context of working in the surf industry.

As always there are exceptions to the rule. But as a whole it seems the surf industry is a hard place to make a solid income, as opposed to other fields. If you go that route hoping to score more water time, it may be a rude awakening, unless like mentioned above, you’re willing to kill a few sales and cut your bottom line.

If i owned a shop there would be a BBQ in the back for employee relations meeting and fluid dianamics research (tallboys of coors), but that might all lean into that whole thing about creating an atmosphere that makes mothers uncomfortable…then you could not sell the bogie boards in the summer and you’d end up waiting tables in the winter.

   I wonder, is there a place for the seedy, not from here not welcome shop...probably could not even exist as a retail organism. Perhaps i could work as a factory shop with the glassing and sanding going on in back and the bulk of your work being sold down the street with a smile.



 My friends and i have always dreamed off hand about running a shop and thought we had it all figured out, Doc you killed it, but some things need to be put down before they waste too much of your time.



 Besides do something else, and make a couple more bucks which equals more free time <span style="text-decoration:underline">and then</span> hang out and drink and BBQ.

Actually -

the shop I run does indeed have a spot out back, where we knock back a few on Fridays, after business hours. Occasionally, we do some clams or bbq besides, though at my age I run more towards top-of-the-line ale ( and thanks again, Rob Olliges ) than tallboys. It gets a little scary sometimes, when my pal Killer shows up with a blender or two. The man has perfected the frozen Margarita, he truly has.

However…that is after being in business in the same town for what is something over three dozen years ( ohmigawd, it’ll be at least 38 years this summer) , hanging out and drinking with lifeguards, cops, park rangers and so on for most of that time. Many of whom have become upper level management, so that we can get away with it. You really want to see our Monday Night softball games.

The place is most definitely a bit seedy, but we have been all along. What once was low rent has become patina, charm, what have ya over more than three decades and ( ohhhh myy gawwwd, rapidly approaching FOUR decades - where ever did the time go? ) . It also keeps the costs down- which as I may have mentioned is a biggie. Including my salary, but I got hooked on the biz a long time ago and it kinda stuck with me…like an ugly skin disease. I make my real money elsewhere.

Locals-only, no bloody way. I mentioned that it’s a business about people, not about surfing. And lets face it, some of the locals you know, where you are, are total dicks. Same here. But if you let in interesting people-who-happen-to-surf, you might wind up meeting and talking with -

A New York State Superior Court Judge who gave it up to become an entertainment lawyer

The Navigator of the USS Enterprise, CV(N) whatever-the-number-is, F-14 Pilot too

Heart Surgeons, who can be tremendously funny people

Painters, sculptors and ‘what the hell is that’ types

Poets

Philosophers

Broadway Actors

SWAT Team Sergeants

Professors of this and that

Commercial Fishermen - an underrated lot in general, seeing as I am one and I am, immodestly, a hell of a guy…

Chefs - how do ya think I learned my sushi ? And BBQ?

Movie People - wanna know what Oliver Stone’s next ‘project’ will be? One of his crew hangs at my shop when he’s on this coast.

Disaster Relief experts, who can be minor disasters themselves.

Stocks and Bond guys, investment types in general - if I ever actually make any money, I know where to put it.

The list goes on, I haven’t really touched much of it. I’ve managed to hang out with all of the above, and that is why I am still at it. It’s the interesting people, not the boards, not the stuff, not the surf, nope, it has always been the people.

The pay genuinely is lousy, the hours long, for every good bunch you deal with there is a genuine jerk who will have ya talking to yourself for days afterwards, but it can be a hell of a good time. Which is why I am still in this biz.

The trick, though, is to stay alive while you get to where you can do what I am doing. Like the old boatbuilder joke-

“What would you do if ya won a hundred million in the mega-Lottery?”

“Why, I’d buy a nice boat yard and have a helluva good time until the money ran out”

Same deal in the surf biz- it’s all about surviving until you are somewhat established. And that’s not easy, and harder still now than it was back in the '60s when we got started. You can do it, but the survival rate is low.

However… if you are indeed crazy enough to give it a shot, Solo will tell you the best way of doing it, with the best chance of not losing your shirt. Maybe even with a little help from -

doc…

Oh, and Rob, I think it’s my turn to buy the ales nest time…

Boy Doc,

I enjoy reading your end of if. Well put. As for not loosing your shirt. I am still trying to figure that one out. Some of us have to tank a couple of times to figure it out. Better to listnen to others who have made the mistakes first.

I personally think doing business with the name brands is a waste of time. You are not building anything unique or your own. Your doing the same thing every other shop owner thinks he must do to keep his doors open. The truth is: those brands help sales in the short run, but the brands end up controlling you and they will sell their own mothers down the river for an extra buck from your new competitor around the block who promised $10,000 orders instead of your $3000 a season orders. Heck they will open them more money or not many times. You cannot trust any of these name brand clothing companies nor can you trust the name brand surfboard companies. You could do what some call a hardcore shop, and carry only second rate lines that have shipping problems and billing problems, but the word hardcore in the surfbusiness is defined usually by; One step ahead of the tax man or an eviction notice.

If you are going to have to wait out becoming established and work your arse off to stay in business. Why not work at promoting your own name clothing and selling quality surfboards that are functional and will last. Even better be inovative yourself. Become a leader and the sheep will follow. Most of the sheep are mindless anyway, so ring your goat bell to a better tone. Doc is right on the money with the people thing. If your informative really try and shoot straight with your customer, you will already being doing something better than 95% of the established shops out there. Don’t think for a minute these guys are genius or untouchable. They have simply been around since the early stages of the surf business and ridden the popularity of the sport. Few have been challenged because most of the competition simply does a smaller version of them anyway. Creativity is the future. You only need your share, not all of the business.

Something else about surfboards:( This comes from a guy who has pretty much promoted two or three shapers exclusively for years) Dont even promote the shapers label above your own. One day he may quit shaping or you may have a falling out and then you have to start over with a brand new lablel. Instead, get the good shapers to do your label or a label you own. Sorry, but you must protect yourself at all cost, because us humans have the bad habit of changing our minds.

when you give your word keep it regardless of how much it cost you. Integrity is rare in the surf business and you will stand out.

Very, very interesting stuff, Doc and Solo. Thanks for sharing your experience. Anyone considering getting into this business should listen to you guys carefully.

Can you name a few shops around the country that have managed to prosper in such a competitive, cutthoat business and give us your take on (i) why they have succeeded, (ii) what you admire abut them or (iii) what you don’t admire about them.

A few shops that strike me as successful operations (irregardless of whether I like them or not - some i do, some I don’t) which run the spectrum from shaper-run operations to purveyors of tourist schlock and surfboards, which, however you charachterize them, have survived despite the odds being against them based on the reasons you described. Again, irregardless of whether you like the shop or not, tell us what you think they have done that has enabled them to survive and in some cases even prosper?

Examples:

Infinity in Dana Point

Ron Jons in NJ & FL (I think I know what you’ll say about this one)

Longboard House in Indatlantic, FL

Wave Riding Vehicles in Outer Banks

Green Room in SD

If you are familiar with them (or other examples) what do you think has enabled them to survive?