Using a compressor is a must when glassing hc or gc. You have to blow off your blank and your lam. You might need a different compressor. I have never got oil on a board.
Leaf blower, or shop vac on exhaust
If you are using a large compressor of the oil variety you should filter it and drain it at least every other day. Othewise use an oil-less compressor. Most of the newer mid-size to small compressors are oil-less. Still have to drain for water/condensation.
An inline filter/water trap is a must to keep oil & water out of the airlines and off of your board.
I vacuum my blanks using a brush attachment before blowing off. Same reason as washing, dust is removed rather than pushed around or driven into the pores. This is a necessary step when airbrushing blanks. Every compressor should be have a water trap and filter if you’re working on boards or else you’ll be spraying that rusty crap from inside the tank.
Howzit Pete, This may sound a little funny but in my shop my compreor was only about 5ft from my filter and seperator ut I had 50ft of air hose between the the compressor and the filters. I looped the hose and hung it over a hook and it had about 12 loops. I never had anything get to the filter or seperator and all I could think of was the mousture and oil must have been trapped in the bottom of the loops. Never had any problems with oil contamination and it was a oil compressor. Funny how something so simple can fix a possible problem. Aloha,Kokua
Hi Kokua, those hose loops work better than most water traps that are commonly available. You can make your own trap using 4 ft long x 2" diameter PVC pipe with the ends capped. Mount it vertically, attach the compressor input line 1/3 way up, and the output line at the top. Unscrew the bottom cap to drain it. This same setup (reversed) can be used on vacuum pumps so that you don’t draw water and other crap into the pump. The best way to keep water at a minimum is to maintain the compressor though. After every two days of use I drain mine. When I close up shop, I bleed all the air pressure out. This extends the life of the regulator and all the valves.
Howzit Pete I know exactly what set up you are talking about and thought about doing one and make it with 2 hook ups with one in the painting room/slash sanding room and one in the laminating room. Never got around to it since I was always to busy building boards and things worked the way they were so it wasn't a neccessity. One thig that was a priority was draining the compressor tank every day before closing up the shop.You would not believe how much moisture a compressor takes in on Kauai with the high humidity. Aloha,Kokua
Hi there,
just a bit confused about the gloss coat. (first timer)
board is looking ok, have sanded the hotcoat so its very smooth and am just about to do the gloss coat.
Two questions,
1. ive just used acrylic car spray paint to spray a stensil onto the board, do i need to seal it with clear laqer before the gloss coat?
2. Will i need to sand the gloss coat? if i do will that not make the glossyness of it go dull?
Thanks for any help.
Howzit TR5, You should have used a srayer with waterbased acrylic paint. I never have used canned spray paint then glosse over it but it has been discussed here and it is not the preferred way to do it. All i can say is might try using a green scrubber on the clear spray and then gloss. If it comes out nice and smooth then thank the resin gods for the are shinning on you, if it comes out like crap then just sndit and ride it. Aloha,Kokua
I don't know why people keep using spray can paint since waterbased is the best and as far as I am concerned the only way. Aloha,Kokua
actually u dont need a compressor . a piece of masking tape lifts of most if not all dust and a tack cloth will get the rest
i still got one tho to blow out the dust from fin plugs
wondering when someone would mention the tape trick. I think Kokua put that one out there for us. Drag a piece of tape lightly cross wise from tip to tip and get all the dust and powder off.
hi greg that was one of the many titbits huie gave me over the phone over the last couple of years. im sure its relatively common
Howzit Greg, That is the last thing you do just before putting the gloss resin on the board. I wash the board with dish soap and then rinse it and let it dry on it's own. Get it taped off and the gloss resin ready to catalyze then use the tape to get any last second dust then catalyze and shoot the gloss coat.Using tape to get dust off is not a secret in the business and all the factories do it, Aloha,Kokua
yeah i thought so kokua. works great!
Sorry guys, but I gotta take issue with some suggestions and conclusions in this thread.
Sanding dust won’t make bumps OR zits the particles are far too small. The only thing that will make zits is particles that are larger then the thickness of the final gloss coat. Because of gloss resin’s high surface tension, it will “stack” up on the large dust particle as the resin tries to cling to itself making a zit. Always good to have a pair of high quality tweezers handy to pick these out before it gels. The primary kind of particle that make zits are fuzzy fabric strands from your clothes. Don’t every wear or try to gloss after wearing wooly clothing.
The reason one slides tape over the board is not to remove the sanding dust. As noted above, that dust in not a problem and will simply merge back into the gloss resin with out a care. The tape is the last step for catching those “fuzzies” or any other large particles and getting them off the board before glossing. Previous steps are blowing off with an air gun and wiping with clean dry dusty hand to “feel” for any flaws in the boards surface. Like small rack dents or more likely tape residue, from the racks or graphics.
The cleanest the board will ever be is right after it is sanded. Assuming your tools, racks, door knobs, tape, light switches… etc, etc are all clean, then you should be able to simply carry the board into your glossing room, tape it off and shoot the gloss coat on it. With all due respect to Kokua and others… washing a sanded board with soap and water is an odd intermediary step that completely is unnecessary. You can’t get the board cleaner then what it is right after sanding. I know of no production shops that incorporate this as a normal part of their processes. If the board has sat unprotected or a lot of color work has been done then quick hand sand over it with 150 grit will remove anything that would disturb the gloss resin.
Cleaning the sanding dust off with rags and acetone is also unnecessary it will often clump and glue the dust together causing problems and rags in surfboard making should never be allowed in a glass shop. They are notorious for spreading all kinds of unwanted flaws, pigment splotches, fuzzies, etc. The worst is wiping off a board with a rag and acetone that has a colored resin pinline. Often the acetone will make the dust into a colored liquid and imbed that color permanently into any tiny pin holea or exposed weave of fiberglass on your nice pretty white surfboard.
The base standard is keeping the shop and tools clean. If that is done there is no reason to have rags. Hand should be cleaned with soap and water or acetone not wiped off on rags that accumulate dirt and transfer it around. If they are available for emergency use for spills etc, they have to be throw away after each use. Paper towels are probably best but they should be rarely used and properly managed in well run operation.
Kokua mentioned this next issue and he is correct. Bump, drips, brush strokes and zits should be removed from a gloss coat using heavier grits and harder pads, spun at higher RPS and with very little downward pressure. The goal is to just keep hitting the high spots until they are cut down to match the level of the lowest spots. That is what creates a flat surface. This won’t happen if you use light grits, soft pads, low RPMs and press down hard. This will only conform into, over and around the bumps. Don’t waste your time. There is a science behind this, don’t bother fighting it.
Polyester resin also shrinks dramatically in the first 48 hours or so. If your gloss was really bad, let it cure longer before sanding. If you don’t, much of what you sanded flat early on, will just reappear as all bumpy again in a few days.
Lastly, once again, someone mentioned the use of PVC pipe in compressed air system. DO NOT DO THIS – IT IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS – YOU WILL HURT YOURSELF OR YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY!!! Look it up online and read the stories of disaster. It is so dangerous it is ILLEGAL for this use. Don’t be tempted by it’s cheap and simple cost and construction. Remember the powerful but tragic story someone told here on Swaylocks awhile back, regarding injuries and lawsuits over a PVC air system exploding. If you don’t want to use copper or steel, then just run hoses everywhere. But never use PVC
If you set up your system correctly you will never get any oil or dirt from the air lines on your boards. It isn’t necessary to drain the tank every day unless you have a tiny horizontal tank and no water traps or filters on the lines. Even if you drain it every day your system won’t last any longer. The moisture will rust your tank eventually because it never will dry out in there once it is wet. But this takes forever. My 80 gallon tank is still holding after 25 years. And was only drained about once a week at the best and more likely once a month. As to saving the valves, most systems will leak a bit and bleed of their pressure over night anyway. But even if they don’t the possible damage to valve or regulators is negligible. After all, their whole purpose for existing is to be under pressure… they can handle it. What everyone should have is a timer so that the system doesn’t keep running all night long. A timer or turning off the system each night will significantly extend the life of the motor and compressor pump.
Water traps and filters are best at each station but if you build your system correctly you won’t have problems even if the filters are further back down the line. From your main line, each station line should tee off of the top of the main vertically rising up a couple of inches and then turning 180° back down. This will allow any water or dirt in the main line to lay in the bottom and it won’t make the vertical leap up out and down you feed line. If you were to tee the station line off the bottom side of the main line, you will have just created a simple drain down which all the crap in the main line will flow.
Your main line should angle downhill back toward your compressor or water traps you build into your system. These can be just a simple piece of vertical pipe a couple feet long or more. Your main line exits at the top and your compressor side line attaches at about halfway up. Put a drain valve at the bottom. Run everything downhill to this point, if your shop is big, put one at each low point.
If you don’t have a good exhaust system then it may be best to vacuum the dust away rather then blowing it around. But the dust won’t get driven into the pores of the foam and therefore create any kind of problems. It just doesn’t work like that. My blow off guns are set at about 80psi and there will be no dust left anywhere on a shaped blank if it is blown off properly.
Ok, I have said enough and probably rattled to many cages by now. But would be happy to discuss further if need be.
Howzit Bill, I know of 3 other glassers here on Kauai that wash the boards with soap and water before glossing and one thing I like about doing it is if a paint pin line is going to bleed it will lose some of it's color when washed and you can then repin it instead of watching it bleed when you gloss the board. Another thing is if there is any oily contamination you will see it when you rinse the soappy water off the board. You also have to remember that not all ofus have a nice clean room to gloss in.My gloss /lam room hd a dirt floor with crushed coral as a top layer and there were cob webs and dust everywhere's. It was one of those old local style garages with a dirt floor with the posts sitting on cement blocks, you know the kind. The tape was used for just what you said and I use it just before applying the gloss. As for not draining the water in your compresor, on Kauai I have seen the pitcock valve rust in a couple of months and then they had to replace the whole valve in a matter of months after buying the compressor. I don't know why but things just rust a lot faster on Kauai than on Oahu. Aloha,Kokua
Didn’t think anymore could be said on glossing or sanding after the last 20 or so threads on this, but once again a few more gems have come up here.
Aloha Kokua
I understand about rusting on Kauai. It is crazy here too. I am in the middle of fixing all the rust on my 40’ container that I use for storage at my house. The blue tarps just couldn’t keep out the water anymore. I am on my second gallon of Ospho and 10 gallons of Snow Roof! But it will soon be water tight again. [img_assist|nid=1054670|title=Container Rust Repair|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480]
[img_assist|nid=1054671|title=Container Grinding|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480][img_assist|nid=1054674|title=Container Roof Done|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=480|height=640]I am pretty sure that the compressor petcock you mentioned would have rusted out just about as fast with daily draining or not, especially since the petcock valve is at the very bottom of the tank and even with draining, it still stays wet there, day in and day out, it never dries out. If the valve is poor quality, they always rust out. Not the tank, just the valve. I have had the same problem before too.
You know I respect your attention to detail. It is a good thing. We all gotta do what we think is right. My experience with compressors is maybe just luck. I have had lots of them over the years and never fussed much over the water other then to drain every few weeks or months. That doesn’t mean I haven’t had problems with the motors or pumps, as I put mine to steady use and even keep a back up so work never has to stop.
I am aware that a few guys here and there wash their boards before glossing. I have no personal problem with this but on a forum like Swaylocks, sharing a procedure like that, and subsequent comments, can quickly make it seem to be the normal or preferred way of doing things when it is far from any kind of industry standard. No production shop could afford this time consuming added step.
Kokua, I hope you realize that my bringing these things up isn’t personal and that I have great respect for your glassing skills. I only share the “other way” of doing things to make sure there is a balance on the forum. If someone wants to wash their boards… they should do it. But the industry’s standards aren’t standards without good reason.
You might be surprised to know that the floor in my glassing/glossing room is also dirt. The concrete slab is covered with concrete sand. My room has also been invaded with spiders, centipedes, cockroaches, mice and etc. It took a couple of months to get rid of the damn siders and their webs! These particular ones would poop from their webs dropping crap on the boards below. And over night, cockroaches would eat off the airbrush paint! But I don’t let those things win. Even the cleanest new glassing room will become a pig pen if it isn’t cleaned regularly. Cleanliness is an attitude… that will transform any environment. But it requires more effort then many surfers want to muster. Having managed and trained hundreds of employees, I am confident that 75% of all quality and speed problems are driven by workers low perceptions of cleanliness. It has to be dealt with far upstream and early on or it will compile over and over again, manifesting itself in the quality of end product or how long it takes to get it done.
Another secret to clean glosses it to wet the floor. This humidifies the air, making dust particles heavier, such they they drop out of the air. Works great with dirt or sand floors as the resin can’t build up on the wet bottom of shoes either!
I hope your doing well in Arizona and your health is strong. You are a great contributor to Swaylocks so please don’t ever let my comments hold you back.