brand new styropoxy fish made for a buddy - first session - first bottom turn and CRACK. luckily the break is clean. the only thing holding the tail together now is the glass on the deck. anyone got tips on how to repair this? or know of anyone in Santa Cruz who could fix it??
thanks in advance,
kirk
the same thing happened to me man, only about 9 inches of my nose snapped off, only being held on by the deck glass. i dunno if i fixed it the “right” way but its been a while and its still holding strong. i cut the glass off and put a strip of bass wood in the foam several inches in on each side of the split to give it some strength, sprayed in a little bit of new foam. cut back the glass around the area and just reglassed it. you can tell it was snapped but it rides nice and hold strong and didnt mess with the weight of the board much.
Hooboy - okay, here’s how I would do it.
It’s a very clean break, little or no foam crushing. So, a little cabosil or similar white filler powder, epoxy and such to make a mix about like peanut butter or cold mayonnaise, butter one half lightly and stick it together. Use enough so ya have a little dribble coming out the edges.
Then, add glass top and bottom, I’d go with at least 6 oz, after lightly sanding the glass that’s there already. Go the full length of the fishtail and maybe even a few inches forward of the fins, same on the deck, free lap both.
Oh, and do both sides - what happened to the one is prolly going to happen to the other.
Don’t bother adding quasi-stringers or wood reinforcements. It’ll add zero to strength and add a lot to the complexity of the repair. If ya do a nice job on the repair as I described it, it should be pretty near invisible.
hope that’s of use
doc…
If that was really the first bottom turn I’d be hunting down the glasser and shaper so we could “come to an understanding”…
I really don’t want to ignite another “PU/PE” against “EPS/EPOXY” firework, I’m sure that the glass job was not strong enough for a swallow like that and I don’t want to criticize or something but you can’t help but laugh at the “superior strength of epoxy” when you see that.
Tends to prove that materials are one thing but that the way you use them can make a hell of a difference…
balsa,
you are absolutely correct.
What weight foam did you use to make the board?
2.5 lb. foam with double 6 deck and single 6 bottom. think i’ll go with double 6 bottoms from now on…or maybe just another 6 oz. patch around the fins and swallow.
this never happened with any of my poly fishes with same glassing.
thanks everyone for the feedback.
kirk
Kirk,
Never happened with your poly fishes?
That’s got to tell you something - especially with the glassing schedule you used. Bet you never glassed that heavy with poly.
Tend to agree with Balsa. But, I sympathize and hope your repair - try Doc’s method, sounds good - is successful.
Pete
I have been told by a man that has glassed more epoxy boards then anyone else that I know that you should never, glass using epoxy with just a single layer of glass. If you want light go with a 4 oz, and a 2 oz. Or two 2 oz layers. but always use two layers. He told me that it will make the board much stronger. I know it is too late for you but this may help the rest of you guys out there. Oh ya 2.5 lb/ft2 sound like a good weight for a fish. But I have seen 2.5lb/ft2 with two layers of 6oz on the deck, it still seems mushy to me, I can still push it in with my finger.
am I really the only one who thinks this shouldn’t be a “how do i fix this” thread and more of a how dare you sell me a weak ass board? There is no sign of that tail hitting anything, its prestine except for that break.
I usally think that once you take the board out of the shop its yours with no warranty but one wave and snap there was some bad craftmanship in there somewhere.
I didn’t see anywhere in the letter where the guy said he sold the board. He said he had made it for a buddy, and wanted to know if anyone could tell him how to fix it. I for one have never repaired an epoxy/EPS board so I’m unable to help the guy with how to fix the broken tail on his buddy’s fish. I am trying to geathere as much information and supply what little I have geathered on the subject of the EPS/epoxy boards. We are all trying to learn, and understand this new technolage as much as we can, and as fast as we can. It does not do anyone any good to make remarks about bad craftmanship, when the guy is asking for help not saying that he has a dead beat that wants his money back and he does not want to give it back.
am I really the only one who thinks this shouldn’t be a “how do i fix this” thread and more of a how dare you sell me a weak ass board? There is no sign of that tail hitting anything, its prestine except for that break.
I usally think that once you take the board out of the shop its yours with no warranty but one wave and snap there was some bad craftmanship in there somewhere.
could be oversanded in that area.
if there is no other sign of damage
id be asking for money back on that puppy.
im surprized you dont see many tail blocks on fishes
all they way up the asscrack to the stringer.
and to the epoxy bashers
do your research on the resin chemistry.
a crap board can be made in any materials
heres some basics for the kiddies
so day can undwerstwand
I have recently finished a 6’7" x 21 1/2 x 3" hull bottomed egg and I used a 4x4 bottom and 4x4x4 top glassing schedule. I figured I would go for a tougher board at the expense of some weight. I think some people are over reaching when it comes to weight though, because my egg is significantly lighter than a friends modern fish (about 5’10"), and presumably because of the double layers of glass on the bottom it will be tough enough. (time will tell)
I am about to finish up a retro style fish and a modern fish for a couple of friends and thought I would try a 6x6 and 6 glass job on the modern one… but maybe I will go for the heavier schedule.
… If using 2 layers of glass is better for an epoxy glass schedule, what about using a tail patch on any board with swallows?
this is assuming that a non-swallow board will be more resistant to this kind of break because of the ‘integrity’ of a curved tail…
That should not have happened. There has to be something that we are not being told here. You said (2) 6oz on the deck and one on the bottom? There would have to have been some serious sanding through for that to have happened. Did you glass it? was it done by a so-called “Pro?” Perhaps the resin was mixed incorrectly… there had to be an impact… or something of the sort, that just doesn’t happen on bottom turns. Who was riding the board when that happened… you? Or the customer? If it was the customer- he’s full of sh*t. Reminds me of the gal that “broke her board in half paddling out in mushy 2’ surf” that came in to the factory a couple weeks after purchasing a new board. Sure. That happens all the time. but we still fixed it… blaaa! -Carl
sorry I read it wrong, I didn’t understand that he made it for a buddy and was trying to do the right thing.
thanks for pointing that out, went from angry to happy in a flash.
I would have expected to see 3 layers of glass at that point especially on the rail…
They may not have been wrapped around enough or too much sanding has taken the strength out of it…
Good luck with the repair, let us know how it goes…
The culprit here is the sander. Definately oversanded. Break through the lap and the rest is just waste. I have an identcal ding in here right now on a poly. Bad foam could be a contributer as well. Plenty of crappy PU as well EPS showing up around here…
iyeah lokbox
tis likely to be oversanded and not enough glass
but
the board is rigid until that point from the stringer
so you get a hinge effect where the stringer ends
just the flex from a bottom turn could do it especially with those long keels or futures boxes
it creates a hinge effect
so yeah more glass on the laps and tail.
the simple solution would be to split and extend the stringers out to the ends as a sort of tail block
so the boards flex is even distribution into the tail area
also it would sort out the problems that all swallow tails have is broken corners
der
and they call themselves pros
Ahmm- you might want to think about that;
First off, I do see what you mean about said stringer being very possibly the locus of the original break;
Where you have an abrupt change in flex characteristics and at the same time that notch, well, add to that the differing adhesion of wood and foam and you got a potential problem.
But I have to take issue with
the simple solution would be to split and extend the stringers out to the ends as a sort of tail block
so the boards flex is even distribution into the tail area
Lets think about this graphicly:
Now, the stringer, split, would be on the trailing edge and very, very thin in both height and thickness. It’s gonna be a bitch to do, shape, stick on, glass and what have you. And, as it’d have a tiny cross section, it’s not gonna do anything structural or change the initial stiffness of the blank or finished board.
And while a tailblock of sorts will indeed go a long way towards lessening the crunched ends that plague all pointy-tailed boards, this wee bit of wood isn’t it.
May I suggest that the simple solution is very simple indeed… Eliminate the stringer… and you have not only eliminated that flex transition point, you have made the thing easier to shape and less likely to break anywhere, especially if you were to take the wasted weight of a stringer and put it into more glass. You have also eliminated the places where you have a less flexible but fracture-prone material with different adhesion characteristics that can break sooner than the rest of the board, splintering away and taking the glass up and away from the foam, triggering what ya might call ‘explosive delamination’ and failure of the whole board.
With modern glassing, materials and such, the stringer is more a decor item anyhow-
hope that’s of use
doc…