Ideal paddling and volume.

General Discussion
81

Uaw! I’ve just finished to read this long long thread and I should say that it scrambled my brain a lot. There’s too much information, less technical than personal experiences (or feelings) spreaded around these pages. So, let me give my impressions, too. I’m 43, 5’10"x 72kg and ride a 6’0" x 11" x 18 1/4" x 14"x 2 1/4". I go surfing almost everyday. I never had a thick board that could ride like my thinner ones. But I don’t think it’s a relevant opinion because in my life as a shaper I have found people that are very paradoxal in their needs. For instance, a skinny guy who rides the thinniest board available has his counterpart in a skinny guy who likes thicker boards. In the same reason, you’ll find big guys riding thin boards, or the contrary.

So, how can we equation this reality? I know people here are very engaged in what they love and do, but surfers in general don’t want to keep a partnership with their shapers in order to develop the most accurate design to their needs. It generally happens with the team riders. But you’ll say that they are very skilled surfers what makes the work easier. Yeah, I aggree, and it makes the things worst to the ordinary customer.

I have a friend who has serious problems in paddling on his longboard. He’s little, fat, and has short arms. When he’s paddling, he looks like a desperate penguim. What can he do if mother nature did him this way. Luck me, he is not a client of mine. But, he’s happy with his limitations. He has even gone to Indo once.

Balance is the key, and this thread has given many variables for us to think about. Remember that in the end of the day, the user’s feedback is what counts.

82
Quote:

I don’t think it’s too far-fetched to extrapolate that with an object like a surfboard, submerging it to just below the surface would likewise cut the wave drag so much that the total drag is reduced by ~50%.

-Samiam

The object is the surfboard and paddler, not just the surfboard. . . . and thus the object is NOT fully submerged.

However, the fact that underwater foils move with less drag than wave making objects which operate on the surface is why underwater lifting foils provide a better lift to drag ratio than planing bottoms, and that is why our tunnel fins work so well. . . . they do much of the lifting work normally done by the surfboard bottom, reducing the amount of lift provided by the planing bottom, and thus the mount of drag aslo.

Which is why the tunnel finned boards are so fast, and this also applies to paddling

:slight_smile:

83

Wow – paddling funboards, you’re having to move through water/move it out of the way with surface tension + mass of water in the bow wave, displacement lappers, and turbulent releases/ eddies at the surface level – finally got enough data to put the thought together in my head –

Honey, I need a shortboard.

GOOD thread.

84

Paddling a shortboard the rider creates all that turbulence too. . . . . and any advantage a paddler might perceive on a shortboard compared with a ‘funboard’ is probably not due to being lower in the water, because the board and rider are still plowing their way over the surface and are NOT SUBMERGED.

If so, and if there is a paddling advantage with a shortboard over a ‘funboard’ it is not because the funboard has more volume, but because of the different shapes of the two types of board.

The idea that there is a ‘bad’ volume (or ‘Bad’ buoyancy range) for a board is a myth. . . … I can create a surfboard which paddles and rides well at any ‘bad’ volume or buoyancy level which you care to name, and I can guarantee that such boards would not resemble ‘funboards’ at all, either in shape, dimensions or riding and paddling characteristics.

:slight_smile:

85

O.K. whats the deal?

the I deal

or I as in me mine

as opposed to

us we our

the I deal is just that.

the way we each deal with transitions

from the beach to outside the lineup is

an unclear solution we all make up as we go along.

if we are paddling a lemon or a peach

we will all reach the place where we say

what a beautiful day…

or maybe

are all these guys fay

If I had a better board for today

things would be comin my way.

but now what about the gladators

and spartans that quest the fray

paddling the worst and making it pay

off the lip you say.

damn board wont drop in it aint heavy enough.

cant fade left to go right?

the damn board hasta take off too late

Cant top turn?

cant

cant

cant

for every specialized feature that has been added

to the basic log built from a tree

the margins for success has been narrowed.

these narrow solutions have made narrow

the potential for ‘what is a good wave’

thanks marketing genius’s

the crowds are concentrated

yep hail hail the gang is all right there in each other’s faces

have a contest and all the boards gotta be kinda the same

or it just aint fair if Jamie Phlipmeov boosts the highest air

or Terry Lefgowitz takes off too early

and Tommy Turnerbuckle’s folding board

takes off after the foldup to tripple speed!

the paddling advantage is in the eye of the beholder.

make it harder make it easier

joup rarr dta judge?

yup yew art da judge.

royce right but he kent stop poke it and drop in as late as

on a tootpeek dangeroo.

I am currently wallowing with the dale school

and going over the falls and swimming out the bladder

flattened riding the rip…

from that perspect all the bored on boards

are clammering for scraps and not havin any where near the fun or appreciation as they might have

after taking a beating

on a non- board not- bored

like the guy said fun thread

paddle a mile then lets talk

…ambrose…

brad cole paddles his fish to rabbit Island…

some whiners paddle 10 yards from the beach

and pontificate on the merits of

paddlability?

86

Ambrose…ya gotta point there? Comin over soon to see for myself. Beach break will do!!

Roger

87

Well said Ambrose

:slight_smile:

88

see ya ,raise ya ,and disarm ya with none…

one two three …none.

I dont win.

we all won.

your friend

…ambrose…

the check is in the mail.

89

Idea paddling and volume…

90

Yoga is the way to go. Not just stretching. Training is great for muscle building, bu t yoga is the training for “souplesse”

91

Thanks PlusOne.

This is a really interesting thread. I can relate to the “swimming of the board you were talking about. I made a board that was a copy of a 7’ McCoy nugget that I already had. But I cut 8” off the nose (straight across to make a 6’4") and then just rounded it off so it didn’t look completely ridiculous. Nose rocker was greatly reduced as you can imagine. Suprisingly I found that it didn’t paddle or catch waves any worse than the original. It paddles best with its very blunt nose just submerged under the waters surface. I does feel like “swimming” the board when you paddle it, but doesn’t feel any slower. It also feels really “with” the wave when you paddle to take off as well. and doesn’t seem to be taking off any later than the original would either. It is almost impossible to nosedive no matter how late you choose to take off - with it being so short (short for me anyway). It is much less board to manage getting around the lineup on and duckdives decent size waves with utter disdain.

Cheers

Rohan

92

Okay, not to sound too dumb, but from reading the post I’m thinking of a 6’8" x 19 1/4 x 2 5/8 Flyer (found a used one). At 215lbs. I’ll definitley be “swimming” the board. The length is no worry but the 2 5/8 has me unsure. Is 2 5/8 going too thin or a good choice??? Great thread!

93
Quote:

Okay, not to sound too dumb, but from reading the post I’m thinking of a 6’8" x 19 1/4 x 2 5/8 Flyer (found a used one). At 215lbs. I’ll definitley be “swimming” the board. The length is no worry but the 2 5/8 has me unsure. Is 2 5/8 going too thin or a good choice??? Great thread!

I was thinking those dims seem to slight for your weight to me. If your a good surfer…you could pull it off. I was thinking more along the lines of 21’’ wide and 3’’ thick. 6’8’’ x 12 x 21 x 16 x 3’’

94

It really does depend upon the athletic ability of the surfer. Nothing’s free- it will take work and

technique. FWIW, I have a few surfers in the 210-220 range riding 2-5/8 and even 2-1/2 and they

seem stoked. If you are an intermittent surfer, (and intermediate) float will be the easier way to go…

…but easy is may not be the best.

95

Just a few quick thoughts to add.

First, if you watch a good swimmer (especially long distance swimmers who are focused on glide) you will notice how “long” they try and make their stroke. They stretch their arm so far out in front to start a stroke that their shoulders, chest and sometimes even their hips rolls to the side and then as they pull their arm through the stroke they begin the roll to the other side for the next stroke.

Poor swimmers don’t do this. They keep their shoulders flat on the surface of the water and take short quick strokes. This is inneficient for several reasons.

  1. A good swimmer is not interested in swimming on top of the water like a poor swimmer is. A good swimmer is focused on moving through the water, not over it. So the swimmer rolls during the stroke moving more of the body under the water instead of on top of it and then stretches the arm way out to increase the length of the body to increase glide.

  2. Stretching the arm way out in front also tends to balance the body (feet at same level as hips at same level as shoulders) and thus reducing drag. Poor swimmers always have their hips under the water and their shoulders on top of the water. They are in effect swimming with their brakes on. A good long distance swimmer has at least one arm in front of his head at all times to keep him balanced. He doesn’t start his stroke with his outstretched right arm until the left hand is in front of his head. This keeps his body balanced as he rises up and down in the water while he rolls.

  3. And finally rolling your body increase the power of your stroke, because you use your whole body and not just your arms.

I have found that with my smallest boards, I swim them instead of paddling. And when I do, my strokes tend to be longer than when I paddle a longboard, I don’t start a stroke until both my hands are above my head to make sure I am balanced and “the brakes aren’t on” and I even roll some as I swim to increase the power of my stroke. (Rolling can be more powerful than over arching your back which tends to put you out of balance if your not careful.)

96

Thanks for that Bart. Not being a full-on swimmer, those descriptions make total sense and are

quite helpful. I am still visualizing how to apply this to being on the board, since my waterline

is a bit higher, even on sinky boards…

97

Okay-I-never-do-this 2.0,

but BUMP this thread

98

Shorter and wider will plane better than longer and narrower. Planing doesn’t just mean when you are standing either, it’s also when you are paddling. It’s also funny how I was thinking of ditching my longboard for a much shorter board. Then this thread shows up. Bizarre…

99

Oooweeeeooo moment to have this thread pop up again Mr. Janklow. A couple of days ago, I took a nice 21-inch wide 6’3" low rocker twin fin out for her maiden voyage. The board is much smaller than my usual. Although 3" thick (tri-plane deck so the rails are fairly thin), it still felt like a sinker. What I noticed was that during the 100 yard paddle out, was that I was not fatigued by the time I got to the peak. I had a real problem catching waves though. I swapped boards with Mr. Melville and rode his 22+" wide, floatier fish. I could catch waves with ease but the paddle back wore me out.

Short of having time trials, I wonder what a “good paddling” board means. I’m pretty sure my 21 incher was less fatiguing because the width allowed my arms to be nearly 90 degrees to my trunk as opposed to the wider board where my arms had to angle out from my shoulders even if it was a minor amount. When it came to acceleration though, the wider floatier fish was a much better solution.

When talking short boards, paddleing may be two things; getting from A to B and catching a wave. Efficiency vs acceleration. May be the key is to find the board that gets the closest to matching both factors.

100

hello all,

la la ia
to traverse

the erectile briny

the quest begins

with gettin there

we all know

like breakfast utensils.

the antisisis of

optimumising

I believe ,

I have reached

my personal low

the 6’10’’ 5/8’'x181/2 balsa

is he most tortourous

paddling experiment

I have ever
personally

conducted.

paddling ?

,perhaps another word

might befit this plight,

is less than
encouraging.

The challenge yes

is there
but the quotient

for effort output

and derived riding rewards

is the lowest I have ever experienced

oerhaps since surfing my plywood paipo

at the san lorenzo rivermouth in 1962.

april one I surfed a double dip

2hrs on the mat at Mysto hidies

and a 12’ stroke at micro hanalei

hard offshore both of which
eclipsed

the alaia struggle

establishing a spectral range

for further assessments.

to know light

is accessable
only after

questing dark

the paddle reach,

as lee submits

as to the width restrictions of a 22’’ width

are mildy restrictive,the 12’er I paddled

was 24 1/2’’ wide
this afforded

kneel paddling and
slowing

to eat a tangerine remnant

from my waxpocket while

continuing to paddle
along

with my friend nathan

who paddling my yellow

11’er
was going at a good clip

crossing the ?oo yards
to the

hanalei bowl lineup
.

the mat conversely was

a full body debilitating 2-3 mile

sojourn yeilding ten to twelf

inspiring shoulders from

the
east wind gods
.

the up reach in a minimum
floater

are to be considered.

a big float board you reach down

a low float board you
must seagull up

your elbows
and scapula

to clear the arm-hands

from the water surface,

an entirely diffrent musckle groop.

the difinitive chapter on

paddlablitisi
potentiallity

will be written ,

perhaps
Poindexter P. Pendelton

is in the
library at Stanford or M.I.T.

or Texas A&M
composing

his outline right now
for his doctoral thesis…

hail poiny
go for it .

ah if but we could only

get to split the grant money
for such an

important paper between us,

we could pay our wives credit cards off.

…ambrose…

how did that post get un seperated?