I love riding different boards and switch them around a bit to my disadvantage, I’m sure. I rode my Griffin 5 fin Mod Fish the other day after a long time of riding other designs. I was so surprised (again) over the speed that board has. It took several waves before I could get my feet under it. I love speed. Speed is good.
My first 10 or 15 boards were fish modeled after a fish that Greg Loehr shaped for me before he retired from shaping. (With his permission). It spawned so many variations that I called it the mother board and still love that version. I love twins.
I have been thinking a lot over the last year about building another fish but holding back thinking the design was so fully evolved that there was nothing new to experiment with. No new statement to be made. I’ve also been sort of badgering a certain San Diego shaper, occasional poster here, to build for me a state of the art fish for the ages, but no bites.
I’m intrigued by Greg Griffins Hover Craft and Burch’s cut in tail. But I wonder if the fish, like the Malibu LB has reached the end of evolution. Maybe I’m over thinking this.
See if you can hook up with Lankameese, (Warren Canada) in Jacksonville. It might be worthwhile to ride one of his Broom Tail Fish. He has posted some photos, and made some comments about his ride experiences.
greg - state of the art fish is the way to go for typical florida (and south carolina) waves. glide over the flats but still have bite to rip and boost the steep sections. lay down rail turns when everyone else is hopping for speed. bring in width and thickness a little bit from a traditional fish and give it thin down rails and double concave through whole bottom (with some v out the tips).
i have been making 5’6-5’8 x 2-3/8 to 2-1/2 with 16-16.5 tail around 11" buttcrack and 20 to 20-1/2 widepoint at center and 15-16 nose, rocker 1-1/2 to 2 tail and around 3-1/2 nose. nothing experimental about it but just a really fun board.
…hello GregT; in my opinion, almost all the designs (except big guns) have reached that dead end, because you cannot go against the basics. I d mentioned this comment few years ago here, that the only way that a surfboard could change is having new materials (and of course techniques) in that way the MATERIALS could change the shape of a given design; however we do not have any new material except some synthetic fibers (lots mentioned in this forum but seems that still are no better than the good ole fibers and resins) and a couple of different techniques like Coil factory etc.
There s NO point to have the same shape if the material is too good…the best material should be the one that can change the designs; all other is marketing bluff.
And that could change our way of thinking; like with the wheel…the same materials so the wheel did not changed but enhanced the potential regarding the application; this is the point that we have with surfboards right now.
The only way to change a proved and perfect design like the Wheel is: not have a wheel at all!!!; in the meantime, the design cannot go anywhere except to have better materials to the fatigue, performance, etc but without change to the basics.
–hello Grasshopper; there s advantage in enhance the keels and tail rocker; indeed.
in the end unless it’s your sole source of income i guess it’s all about having fun
we spend so much time trying to discover the next “magic bullet” rather than learning how to get the most fun out of what we have sitting infront of us today.
like you and Chris have discovered by “re-acquainting” yourself with an old friend
in a high end product development school I just attended with a bunch of kids from the valley’s best as well as some of the top name brands in the country it was hammered into us to quick looking to just develop and out sell the market on features but instead concentrate on solving real problems and the rest will take of it self. As I watched a replay of the Eddie the other day sick with flu I got while on the mainland I could already see that this major flaw had already taken over the whole safety vest market with vendors trying to “out do” the other by how many pulls you could get out of one vest versus thinking about solving the whole penetration issue all these “vest babies” were having when wiping out. Some one’s neck will get broken soon if they can’t pencil dive in to get out of the circular impact zone. Maybe a built in neck stabilizer or appendage stabilizer with a no hands depth driven auto inflate sensor is next. The speed of change is not linear I guess.
but I strongly agree that speed is the key to everything especially as you get older and slower
the more speed the better the maneuvers and more power the wake
and short, wide and flat seem to be one formula for getting speed with minimal drag.
kind of like the whole finless skim board phase curren is onto today
in the end all you need is something that will allow you to paddle in to a wave, stand up, turn and accelerate at will to het the best rides of your life.
bodysurfers, greenough and morey all knew about this long before surfers and huys like roger and mat riders like dale and ambrose would argue the need to even standup on something
I was always a fan of Greg’s regular fish versus his modfish design because it fit my surfing and the waves i ride to a “T”. I like flat rcker board than are short enough so that stepping on the tail fixes the rocker issue when you need it and it doesn’t want to cling the curve like a banana or boogie would in order to give you the fall away speed. Otherwise know as the skipping rock syndrome you get pumping down the line. GT the hovercraft is a phenomena especially if you get it with options like a twinzer or keel. Don’t know what it does but I do like it better than my modfishes,
Also I was never a fan of the twin fin having come off of single fin beak nosed boards but I have been riding “fish” designs since the early 70’s when the first board I ever made was a fish from a snapped in half dumpster diver my neighbor gave me. The fish pictued in the kodak brownie photo below started with a handmade single giant combed flex fiberglass keel till I broke it on a wave too big. Before then I was able to experience the whole flex snap back sensation used to initiate the top turn on a super wide board without having the too small keels that often tracked as you trmmed down the face. Way more vertical and faster that it was as the two wood keel fin you see in it’s second incarnation with a bondo re-shapable bottom filler.
Greg Griffin’s 5 fin fish are fun, and fast. Down side is trying to catch waves when everyone else is a third to half your age and riding a 9’ boards or an 8’ costco bloated sponge. There’s a guy I see when Courts is good (and I go there) who’s been riding his 5-10 Kane Garden fish. I’ve seen him on short quads, but he says he prefers the fish. He live on the north shore so he’s in good shape, and can catch the waves even with most guys on longboards. I’ve seen him tear apart double overhead courts, and it made me wish I was on my GG 5fin.
If you want to go to the next level of fish I strongly suggest GG’s version of a mini simmons, the hovercraft. It is thick, short and wide. It has 3 fins parallel fins, and it’s fast. Bernie has one and I rode it several times. Not sure I’d ride it in double overhead, but in small to head high, it is a go to board. I rode it on a really nice but windy day in slightly overhead waves.
Having said that, I’m back to 8’, 3" thick single fin eggs, trying my best to catch waves early and not hit the crowd sitting in my way. I can sit 10 to 20 yards away from the crowd and wait for the good ones. Missed what would have been my wave of the day yesterday because in idiot was paddling out right where I would have dropped down. Had to sit outside for a while and calm down.
Mick Mackies sidecut fish (similiar to what burch has been doing), and his deep flex tail swallows… Never rode one but very interesting design concepts
There’s also an article about him and the connection to snowboards, I think it’s in Surfer’s Journal, maybe last year sometime.
Personally I think the basic keel fish has reached its pinnacle, but quads and other variations still have some room to evolve. I think the area they are weak in is bigger powerful waves. They are designed to be fast in small surf, so in powerful waves they can be too fast. You need to be up on your game to control them. Then the paddling part can get you too. A fish paddles better than a short board, but not better than a log. I laugh inside when guys come out on fish and small stubby boards, then complain about people riding longer boards. Doesn’t matter how good your board is if you can’t get waves because the crowds, or the size of the waves. Been there and done that too many times.
I have one of GG’s Hovercraft on order, should be done most likely in the next few weeks; living in NE FL I think it will be a good board for most of our local waves, looking fwd to surfing it and will report back as time goes on… I went to the larger side of dims in eps/epoxy 6’2 x 22.5 x 3.125, with several fin set ups, the inline three large fins, twinzers, and keels… lots to play around with; first board I have ordered in quite a few years; I’m 46, weigh about 210 lbs, 6 ft tall… with a left shoulder thats seen better days, and I’m left handed… I see the board as a great blend of fish/simmons leaning towards more hp than not.
Lankameese, my brother has 6-2 hovercraft. Probably the same as your dims. I’m only 5-6 and just about 170. The board paddles great for me. I think you will really like it. Most guys I know that have them enjoy them as long as they surf where they don’t have a lot of longboarders catching all the waves. Definitely a much better choice than the standard mini simmons type of board.
That board with the induction needs an air scoop on the deck. Reminds me of the stuff Tom Morey was doing in the '70s. My brother was a big follower of Morey, and did a bunch of weird things to boards in the '70s. He has a Morey Swizzle now.
Greg, hope you figure out what you want in the short wide boards. I’ll bet the waves in Florida are just like the waves in Ewa Beach, so whatever works in Ewa Beach should work well there.
Yeah I know; You guys love’em. 69 thru 71 I rode and watched others ride the best twin fin/fish shapes done at that time in San Diego and OC. I was sooo relieved when a couple of years later I got off my single fins and twins onto a Rusty shaped Canyon Thruster. The question would be; If you thin out a Fish, switch up the bottom to some kind of single to double concave V out the back, etc. etc. tucked under, modern rail, and four, five or six fins. Is It STILL a Fish??? OR Is it a modern day shortboard with a Fish Tail??? Lowel
To me a fish is short, wide ass with a buttcrack, not much curve in the tail outline. 2 fins, 4 fins, I don’t know. Never did like the way old 2 finned version felt in hard cutbacks, but guys I know like the fish because of that. I think that if you surf with a low center of gravity, they work really well. Sometimes when you stand too upright, and put a lot of leverage in the turn they can release on you.
Bushman made my brother a fish. It has 3 fins and a pulled in nose.
