Is there a light weight space filler that is stronger than Q Cell I can use for broken board repairs

General Discussion
1

Hello there, can anyone help me please?

My problem relates to fixing snapped boards. Lately I have had 2 returned to me with compression damage on the deck.

Both had been snapped behind the widest point and both had delamination around the break.

The delam was cut away and brought back to flush using a standard Q Cell and resin mix.

The repair was then glassed with 1 layer of 4oz top and bottom.

Now, weight is always an issue with customers’ repaired snaps, hence the single 4oz. Unfortunately with our heavy footed brethren… the foam under the Q Cell compresses, the Q Cell being only thin - it cracks! The 4 oz starts to delam… and I have a problem!

So, to my question: is there something better than Q Cell for this application?

Thank you very much.

2

Single 4 over Q-cel on the deck?!!

not enough cloth over the break. My friend fixes a lot of broken boards at Puerto Escondido and

he uses 12oz top and bottom (3 layers 4 or 2 of 6). He uses Q-cel and the repairs are usually

pretty light, considering.

They break/repair boards up to 3 times per board before giving up on them! the place eats boards.

3

Thanks Plus One Shaper, I appreciate that, but because I don’t live somewere with waves like Puerto Escondido, most of my repairs are super- light high performance shortboards that get snapped by guys doing airs. They then hand them to me… to put back together light and strong… so they can trade them in on their next super-light board that they will snap doing airs. So you see my problem. And hence my question.

4

Try boatbuilders, Wessex Resins (West Systems) and SP Systems (Now Gurit) both make lowdensity fillers, easy sanding but not structural.

5

As far as the alternative for Q-cell i like Microballons better i think it is stronger and a little lighter. Now for the repair issue you usually have 2 views 1. Some people like to keep the repair light and dont want to beef up the area that has been snapped, hence so if the board does snap again it snap’s in the same place verses either behind the old repair or in front of the old repair. My thoughts are to go in between i would go with a standard either 4/4 or 4/6 on deck and 4 on the bottom fill any voids with microballons. I would just pull as much excess resin as i could. This will give it some more strength than just a 4 ounce top. Hey If it snaps again I think its time to get a new one. The board will never ride the same again anyhow.

6

POYLMER-Diaper filler…nothing stronger anywhere when added to resin of any kind.Nothing even comes close!

7

You mean like the seaweed based Karagenen?

8

I’ve had this big idea about fixing deck delams that I havn’t tried yet. Dig out the old rotten foam. Using a notched tile trowel lay down Gorrilla type foaming urethane glue, the grooves/ridges in the foamed smear theoretically ease the fairing step, felt tip pen mark the tops of the faired ridges, next lay down another glue smear over the faired grooves and fair it down to the previous marked ridges. Maybe the Gorrilla type glue will be more touph/flexible to further compression?? I’ve had bad luck with filled resin smear being brittle under deck delam repairs. John C.

9

i have been fixing boards for over 20 years i also work in high tech composites the best thing to used is k1 glass bubbles from 3m e-mail me and i will give you some of them or tell you were to get them p.s. dont tell anyone is a secret …

god bless richard

10

…what happens when it gets wet?..does it gell up and blow up like a balloon?

11
Quote:

Thanks Plus One Shaper, I appreciate that, but because I don’t live somewere with waves like Puerto Escondido, most of my repairs are super- light high performance shortboards that get snapped by guys doing airs. They then hand them to me… to put back together light and strong… so they can trade them in on their next super-light board that they will snap doing airs. So you see my problem. And hence my question.

I think you may want to consider using a vacuum approach, this will allow you to get more fibre and proper resin impregnation with minimum weight gain. I will remove anything damaged, even foam and replace it with new material, even foam. soon to get my vac machine so I will be using this on buckle/snap repairs. Also, when glassing the break, use a more glass, larger sheets, don’t just cover the repair but feather it out over a larger area, you need to make a bond with the “healthy” parts of the board.

12

hi lazarus

i hate to say it

but you could learn how to build epoxy composite boards

they are lighter and flexible if you get them right

and pretty close to unbreakable

i can jump up and down on mine when there upside down on the ground

also they dont dent and keep the new feeling for years

performance shorties are at the end of the road with those materials

pu/pe is more suited to retro styled boards that are glassed more heavily

also in the totally unlikely event of breaking a composite

you can put it back together without adding weight (or very little)

say i broke a 5 pound compsand(like that will ever hapen)

and i re skined it or patched the skin

it would prolly come out at 5.5 at the most

still

the good thing about pu/pe is they do break easily

that way builders can keep themselves busy building new ones

(good if you got a known label and people keep buying them weather they break or not)

anyway

back to your question

has any one tried using vacbaged sandwhich patches

using 3mm divynacell with 3 oz both sides

and featherd into the original glass

this would be the strongest lightweight repair

and prolly improve a board that has lost its pop

13
Quote:

Single 4 over Q-cel on the deck?!!

not enough cloth over the break.

14

Yes,Kendall

To RichardL what I use is much stronger.

And yes when you wet it with resin it swells and creates a different chemical structure altogether

It also has a natural fiber in it about 3 x stronger than fiberglass.

You use less resin,it thickens quickly and distributes the fibers evenly.

It’s the perfect filler.

I took a cup of resin and mixed it w/ various fillers…ALL shattered into several little bits w/ one blow of a 24oz framing hammer.This includes fiberglass, polymer spheres (polyethyleneglycol),carbon fiber,Kevlar,etc,etc,etc,.

With the Diaperfiller it took several blows just to crack it.

You can archive this info…it’s old…very old news to me ,boys.Herb

15

I tried Herb’s filler on an older board that I was restoring and it worked really well. I had some pretty large voids to fill where the foam had rotted away and the resin w/ the filler formed a gel which I could apply vertically that held its shape without running. The repair was very strong and clear. Good stuff.

16

d cell sandwich patches would be the lightest and strongest by a country mile

i havent tried to repair a snap like this

but have done a few repairs with this method

what id do is sand out the area into a slight depression

using epoxy resin

then vac bag some 3 to 5 mm d cell patches with 2 oz under into the area

id tape the plastic sheet down onto the board and use some blue tack to seal the tube entrance

and a t towel as a breather

wait for it to be kicked

then sand back nice and smooth and put some 3 oz over the top

fill coat

if you are an effiecient vacbagger

like me :slight_smile:

you could do the first inside lam with a good quality 5 min epoxy

so you can be glassing the outside 10 mins later

but only if your quick and have everything ready

you can get a away with a vacuum cleaner if your using 5 min epoxy

3 oz cloth under would be a fair bit stronger without adding much weight

and maybe before you do the ouside lam

you could fair it a bit and spray it to match the board

you would hardly even notice the extra weight

and it will give the board a bit more ZING if its gone soft

you are asking for light weight and strong

well this is it!

try it on a few old boards until you get the skill down

then you will be armed with a boards snap arsenal of radical repair methods

and it will give you a kick start at making better surfboards

or then again

completley disregard what i just wrote

i dont know anything really!

17

oh i left out the “glue board back together with 5 epoxy first” part

and peel away delamed areas

then sand the depression

18

This method is light:

Try 1 :

http://www.cflsurf.com/boardfix.html

Try 2:

http://www.cflsurf.com/boardfix3.html

19

Thanks for the post on your results using the diaper filler…

…I fixed a friends Vet about a year ago using it in a very weak/stress area…the work is still intact and tough as Chrome nails.

20

I used micro balloons with two layers of 4 on the deck and a single 4 on the bottom, the bottom layer on the deck extended well past the break and was cut in a diamond shape with the longest points on the stringer and the laps wrapped around the bottom of the board extending a few inches over the break line, the top layer on the deck was cut strait and it extended a few inches on either side of the break stopping at the top rail turn (over lapping three layers made too much of a bump which lent over sanding), the bottom cloth was cut in the wedge/oval shape a little smaller than the bottom deck piece and it lapped over to the deck a few inches. To keep it light I squeegeed out the excess laminating resin and evened it out with the hot coat.

I liked the wedges because when sanded the feathered line wasn’t strait across the board creating a weak spot, I liked the 4 oz because it can be feathered easily and very little of the original glass (strength) got sanded away and because the layers of 4 oz don’t add much weight.

I used this method on many broken team boards and a few boards for some WCT guys and they held together with little problem and they still worked reasonably well (many were broken with a twist and bound for the sale rack) because the staggered glass left some flex in the board.