Lantor Soric/Lib-Tech construction

General Discussion
1

I do a fare bit of vacuum bagging normally cork and carbon but have always been intrigued about the lib tech construction. I have not had one in my hands to get a good look or had any experience of the construction, the only thing I can figure is it looks like they are using Lantor Soric XF in the lam, the website does not give much away,are they eps/epoxy or pe?

looking at Lantor Soric xf 2mm it seams like it takes a lot of resin and would be quite heavy? its more designed for infusion which I guess is possible if you maybe glassed the blank first to seal it.

Has anyone had a closer look at how these boards may be laminated or played with Lantor Soric ?

2

I saw a libtech in half. Foam was pink and really like xps. Skin was basalt ? in, thin soric like material and glass out, about 1 or 2 mm. For surfboards look 1.5mm soric LRC take far less resin than xf.

3

I dont have much to add technically, but I can tell you this. I have a first gen lib tech ramp that I broke in half one day a few years ago.
The foam is all grey and when it split, some of the glass delaminated. but, what was interesting is that when the glass pulled off, there were a million little stalagtites of foam/glass on the delaminated glass. It almost seemed like they took the shaped blank and perforated it(tons of tiny holes the resin sunk into to adhere to) before they glassed it. I’ll try to remember to take a picture of what I mean and upload it later.
Also I need to look at it to confirm what I’m saying is fact.
I’m sure this was no help to you, but is my first hand experience.

4

cheers many thanks, sounds like it is xps, it would explain how they could use soric and then also use infusion.

I had not seen soric lrc anywhere before, and it doesn’t seam like anyone in the uk stocks it to give it a try unfortunately but will keep looking. many thanks

5

yep it’s soric. LRC is the bigger cells so less resin, may be you can find it at R&G composits. I think it’s xps too, in my memory the one i see was pink/orange but a friend see a grey/green like MrMcdugal. All those colors, the poke foam and the need of non absorbant foam for infusion play for an xps like foam. S+surfboards use soric too, on eps. Corefleflex board construction from focussup is also soric LRC on eps. I know one guy that try it for his build and he like more sphertex.

6

Hi, a friend had some libtech boards for repair in my garage. He bought the thinnest soric from gaugler und Lutz in Germany. I still have some of it on a roll. I could send you a bit of you want. The basalt is only on the rails I believe. It’s the silver stuff. You can get something like that on incotelogy basalt . The core is perforated XPS I believe.

7

Here are the pictures I was promising. You guys really know your construction. Tip of my cap

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8

Nice picture. So they are using the same technique as in the Fiberflex patent (I don’t know if Fiberflex obtained a patent in the end as I don’t see how this could be patented…). It looks like XPS but a little bit of acetone would surely answer the question (if the foam melts). The foam pictured on the LibTech website looks a little bit different, but the pictures are not too usable. Maybe the new generation is different.

9

im not sure that is xps it looks to have some sort of cell structure almost like pet or div. cell. but they were odviosly worried that they would have bonding issues with all those spike roller holes.

10

Good morning, I’m also interested in doing my own surfboards with lantor soric, I’m not a professional shaper or alive of this.

the lantor soric lrc as well have said, is the light evil of all

I could see a sample of a surfboard cut in a store. the owner very kindly let me heal these photos. is a pain, can not measure the thickness you use, 1.5 or 2 mm no more

I have vacuum pump and I am studying techniques for the manufacture, I have already done some table with corecork with very good result. I like the idea of lantor since you can do the entire surfboard, part up and down in a single infusion, saving a lot of work and time.

my idea is to make a surfboard with:
eps of 30 kgm3 density +( lantor 1.5 or 2mm + fiberglass 100g + Peelply ) on both sides+ Spiral Tube+ Vacuum Bagging Tube

with the Infusion spray adhesive appearing on the videos I think you can get

I have 3 videos that I think can be very interesting:

but I just found a 4 video that surprised me. can solve the delamination problems. the eps does not overrun this problem, but if that improves the impregnation of the eps with lantor throughout the surfboard

in the minute 2.5 introduce a Vacuum/ Infusion, bleeder/ Mesh between the middle of the fabrics. how do you see this idea? The bad thing about this is that it adds weight 145g/m2 and extra resin

What do you think of the idea? Any recommendation? I have not worked the infusion will be my first time and I’m a little nervous because I do not want to throw so much money in the garbage.

I have nothing to do with this store, but the purchases I have made have resulted in quality but above all at a very good price. surely I buy with them the material, some recommendation? references , there are many epoxy without filter uv, I do not care since it is an experimental table and cost the cheapest price Shop für Faserverbundwerkstoffe | HP-Textiles

I will continue putting ideas, but I need your help is a very ambitious project for me, maybe even too difficult for my current knowledge

Thank you so much for everything

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11

that looks a lot more like xps!

12

for sure it’s look like eps. Ask the guy how have the board i saw, he confirm blank was pink. On the last photos there seem to not have the poke. Pierre it’s not fiberflex (carbon rails patent LOL) but hydroflex (anchor fiber in foam patetnt LOL again).

Asier esnal, with soric you need fiber under and over, soric is a sandwich core, a bulker as coremat, low tensil strengh. If you don’t want an heavy board you must use lighter eps foam. You must seal foam before infused or you will saturate foam with resin, lot of resin.
Soric was developped to be both a bulker and an infusion media that stay in laminate.

13

Hi Asier
I do not recommend you to try the infusion, my own experience from 2012 when I started shaping boards in my garage was a nightmare. I tried more or less the way that you are describing and the results where no consistent and at the end with more work and cost than other building methods. Tried coremat, and even building a board with soric (not the LRC) that ended in sucking more than 3kg of epoxy. The spyral tube and vacuum bag wrinkles marks in the rails where a nigthmare to fix in vectran rails. You must use special epoxy for infusion that has very low viscosity, you can’t use regular hand laminating epoxy without troubles. If you use Eps core, no matter the density, the foam will suck a load of resin.
If you really want a light and durable board I recommend you the sandwich construction with different vacuum stages.
By the way I am from Bilbao.
Cheers

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14

the way I would have thought to do it would be to glass in 2 or 4 oz first then infuse the lrc after but I guess you will get a lot of print through of the lantor cell’s like this.

15

Sorry for the confusion Lemat and thank you for rectifying, so many fancy names for the 'technology" … I have a problem when I try infusing lighter EPS (not too light because infusion is better with high vacuum and light EPS won’t support it) which is the one that was mentionned, resin gets into it. Sealing would need to be perfect, because infusion resin will go through the tiniest hole. There are some EPS that will get resin between beads, but not that much anyway… there will be a compromise to find.

16

After a certain point it might make more sense to just stick with an ultralight PU core. Sealing is easier and less critical and you don’t have bonding issues.

17

For the build, you might be right. For the business, EPS is much less expensive. $30 a board less at high volume adds up.

And as to the marketing, it doesn’t need to be a better build, as long as the buyer thinks it is a better build. And it isn’t very hard to make a board more durable Tha a pu/pe glassed 4,4x4.

18

Thank you very much for the information. it’s a real pleasure

that good is to read your writings and experiences, the first by the sealing of the surfboard, I had not thought about it

I have intentions to use one of these 2 epoxy I leave the pdf with its characteristics .
reference E120RI or HP-E200GL the 2 have a very low viscosity, they are special for infusion

regarding to insert a sheet of fiber between the eps and lantor. When talking about sandwisch structures it is said that the lantor has to have to be in the middle of the structure, building boats, but on a surfboard? the lantor is used like surface layer being the true nucleus the eps. I do not know to what extent that fabric is needed, we are not really using the lantor for what has been designed. careful, I’m not smart at all just a thought out loud

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19

With soric, veneers, bulkers, pvc or similar high density foam skins, etc. the idea is to make the board’s skin itself function as a sandwich.
So you get the benefit of stiffer skin that does not buckle/peel away from the core under heavy pressure/abuse as easily as a glass laminate directly on soft foam.
If you use soric or veneers, etc without any fiber between them and the foam, you are only increasing resistance against things like heel dents, not stiffness of the whole board or strength against buckling/breaking the board.
There are some reasons to consider using lower modulus, non-glass fibers instead of glass between the bulker or veneer layer and the inner foam core, but if you do that you might be giving up some of the strength advantage of the sandwich skin, unless you use a very thick veneer. This is like the Sunova way I think, with balsa or paulownia, but maybe that;s another topic…
If you use a very thick veneer, you get the toughness against dents and and the overall strength, but it is heavier than a thin veneer, and may sometimes be harder to get a good bond to the inner foam core of the board.
So the composite sandwich recipe is usually glass, over sandwich core (soric, bamboo, pvc, etc), over glass, over the inside foam core.
But there are still reasons to break all these rules. Sometimes…

20

the original idea was to make surfboards to the empty as they come out in the videos that I have put, eps and fiberglass. the downside of this is that you have to throw away the Vaccum Mesh … there is the idea of doing with latorsoric

thank you very much, I understand then the straight can be eps 25, 4oz fiberglass, lantor soric 1.5mm, 4oz fiberglass

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