Got it now
Cheyne, can you Private message me your PH number, have some business stuff to ask you etc
I will,he’ll get a kick out of it for sure.Herb
G’day Cheyne,
Did you ever ride Lazors as Thrustas or Twins, Quads?
Personally, I love single fins, What type of fin besides the Star Fin do you think excells in small crappy waves like we get here in sydney and you in Surfers?
And Finaly what type of fin is your fav. for waves like the Superbank, Currumbin Alley, Bells, Angourie?
I was talking to Jim Banks a while ago and he said he was a fan of the brewer style wide bases.
Thanks,
Josh,
PS… Hope ya’ get some good waves on the goldy!
hi josh…i use the star-fin in mushie waves a gull wing in tubey waves and flounder the rest…under 2ft 8’mal hotdogger, …ye ive tried twinzers and liked them,channels were getting stuck in the curves, bonzer had some great sessions on duncan campbells board,… twins were ok, most the twins are hard to stick it vertical…the single does everything , I use mostly single…on the super bank which went off last week…it does have a few cracks in it …not as long as it was…I ride how i feel…and that changes…often…for sydney id have some sharpe edges…for here you can dull them alot cause of the long barrells…that we dont get…aloha …you like the poo camo…you gotta have a bit of the real to get rid of the crowd…still nothing works at the super…I used to stay out surfing with sharks in the water…i think ive had my luck and now if there is a shark in the water im coming in…I think they will eat anything…even poo
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[please excuse chipfish re-editing] hi Josh…I use : - FINS : - star-fin in mushy waves gull wing in tubey waves BOARDS : - 8’mal hotdogger, [for under 2’] twinzers channels were getting stuck in the curves, bonzer - had some great sessions on duncan campbells board, twins were ok, most the twins are hard to stick it vertical the single does everything , I use mostly single… Hi Cheyne ! … do you have a camera ? Please , can I / we see a shot or 3 of the Cheyne Horan 2004 edition quiver ? Sounds like you have / had some GREAT boards there…this fellow 43 year old ex- Sydneyite single fin [and ,lately, “fish” ] fan would LOVE to see them !! cheers! [it’s great having you here , by the way…how many other pro surfers take the time to share their knowledge? this is a great forum for that , eh ?!] ben [ p.s. - on another, but related , note… have you ever made yourself any boards ?]
Thanks for the Reply Cheyne,
I’ll have to try a gull wing one time,
Cool stuff 'bout the Bank, we had some alright surf down here on sat, I was up at the superbank not that long ago and got some alright days, the bank was running from snapper through little marly, then when i was walking back to kirra, greenmount looked pretty good for about 15mins, and your rite NOTHING will keep the crowds away from snapper, however you can usaully get some good waves at little marley.
Thanks for the advice,
Josh.
Ben, good idea, a quiver shot would be good and…
must add, SINGLES RULE,
From Josh (‘living single’)
i agree with the sentiments expressed ealier in the thread about most modern boards being based on the lazer zap concept …
it surprises me the concept of widest point back took so long to come back in after the short board revolution started …
if you look at the longboards of the late 60s the widest points were getting further and further back , then its almost like when shortboards came in all the same pincipals in design had to be revisted by the next generation of shortboard shapers …
one interesting thing about new designs when they seem to hit the market in a larger way , everyone seems to learn the same lessons at the same time , its like the whole industry learns collectively …
i really agree with halycons sentiments about competition results …
its a real shame that a designs credibility would be judged purely on its competitive success…
competition and commercialism go hand in hand …
you can market whatever you want whether its functional or not is another thing…
what cheyne was riding in his competitive era was very functional in certain conditions , the fact the pro tour wasnt so controlled and manicured , meant that a bigger variety of equipment was functional because the various competition venues offered a bigger variety of surf conditions …
whereas now days , longer periods of time are allowed for a competition so the best few days of condititions can be used for competition ,and its at locations with consistent better quality waves with power…
so the type of designs that are functional for the pros are now within a way narrower range of measurements …
because the competition arena is looked to for design guidance and the introduction of new concepts , the fact competitions are run differently has been a factor in the stagnation in the variety of designs being used by pro surfers …
now when a valid design is offered up , the critics will argue , "well it cant be any good or the pros would use it "
with the way pro surfing is controlled these days … that arguement no longer has any validity…
amatuer competitive surfing and the variety of boards being used by those surfers would be a way truer reflection of what is functional …
the right board for the right day … competition goes ahead rain hail or shine , big waves or small …
not like the current tour where even a cloudy day is snubbed coz the light isnt good for tv …and the sponsors logos arent well exposed enough …
im not anti competition or anti pro surfing …
it has a place and a use , mainly more to do with commercial factors and not the everyday needs of your average surfers who are using a bigger more functional variety of designs …
so at the end of all that …
the average Mc coy would have a place in a quiver … functional for the right day …
and geoff certainly has his place among those who have made a contribution to the development of surfing equipment…
regards
BERT
The Cold Water Classic was here in Santa Cruz last week. Five days of surfing but only one day of worthy surf. It’s fairly typical. On year in 5 we have conditions here that merit all the fine surfing talent that comes to town.
For me the sad part of modern surf contests is that the boards they surf look nearly the same. One would think that there’s now place for board variety in competitive surfing. I say to myself, “Really!?” With very few exections, whether the surfer weighed 130 or 190. he was on a squashtail that was somewhere between 5’9" and 6’1". The occasional exception of a swallow tail or rounded pin was visible but the boards were remarkably unsurpizing. Most of the boards had glass on fins with little variation in rail or bottom configuration.
HO HUM… ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
When “The Lane” is really going off it’s great to see a variety of equipment in the line up, but when you go to this or any a major competition you’ll only see small variations in equipment. Bert has made it real clear why things are the way they are but it sure would be a lot more entertaining if there was more variety out there. I don’t think we’ll see any major changes for sometime cause the media has a strangle hold on professional surfing. If someone breaks the pattern and wins a contest things will change but it’s gonna take some real progressive R & D and a surfer whose willing to do some extensive experimentation and testing. Those are few and far between. Cheyne bares witness to that in spades!
Wouldn’t it me nice to see another board like the “Lazor Zap” show up on the scene with that would be revolutionary and really rip?
If Bert and I weren’t over 9,000 miles from each other (it’d take a lot of paddling for us to get together, but stranger things have happened) I’m sure we’d give it a go. I don’t know how much success we’d have but you can bet some eyes would roll.
Mahalo, Rich
p.s. The edge of performance is built on innovation.
yep, well said Bert !
“chip”
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Wouldn’t it me nice to see another board like the “Lazor Zap” show up on the scene with that would be revolutionary and really rip?
p.s. The edge of performance is built on innovation.
It has shown up and it’s called a Nugget. Pretty much a more usable Zap with much more variety to the shape.
Good post Bert
Remember the old Velzy Pigs? I would say Mccoy (I will admit to being partial) has had one of the most significant contributions to surfboard design since his plan shape is still pretty much the standard. He moved on years ago however when float went out of vouge. I just saw an article in one of the surfing magazines about thickness coming back with them using Rusty as their voice for thickness. No mention of Mccoy who has never left it or Cheyne. Politics as usual still after all these years.
I have nothing against pro surfing either, but I will say it has done more to keep surfing back than most any other thing. It’s kind of funny that the last two fads to pop up in the industry have not been planned but just kind of happened because of the surfing of a few individuals. Namely Joel Tudor. It’s good the kids are getting back to float, but those old boards had their limitations back when they were the only thing to ride and they still do. The floatation is intoxicating. Good surfers make them look good anyway. Thats one thing I like about nuggets for the average surfer. Easy to ride = fun.
Hey Solo,
I’m not putting the design down but you and I both know the Nugget’s been around for a while. No doubt McCoy is one of the great innovators in the surfboard industry. I’m looking more toward the future than what we have right now.
Back to the fin shop, Rich
True Halcyon,
It is hard to believe it’s been around since the early 90’s. Just now being found in America. Still a very functional design. GP did me a modified version of Cheyne’s pink railed zap. Not as thick throughout the board and more rocker. Still single. The thing flys and holds great. Pautshy is another truely great shaper. I am sure there are too many to count. Our own Jim Philips being one. Halcyon: I still think the rounder thicker boards will be that future, not the thin ones for the average surfer. Less fins in the water and shorter boards in bigger waves.
yeah Bert I agree…and Halycon I agree…I love creativity…and I sea alot of that here (swaylocks)…yeah pro surfing…does hold design back and sometimes its not the right boards for the average guy…Lazor zaps have evolved they are now nuggets…we have pro contests here in OZ and they do lift the performance levels…I tried to attach quiver nothing happened…
Bert I think the problem of wide points staying so far forward was related to the rail shapes that were being used. Most shapers were into low rails often with distinct edges, they didn’t even start rolling them under until the late seventies in most cases. Now if you put those rails on a board and put the wide point back, you go nowhere.
The problem with those boards was that there was a huge transition from driving down the line to snapping into a cutback or whatever, you had to get all that inside rail out of the water. McCoy had always tended to use softer more rolled rails so he probably had an advantage in developing a functional board with a wide point further back.
yea i dono about that one blindboy …to many other variables that can compensate either way …
i run ridiculously low rails , super hard edges , and widest points back , and they fly along on minimal power , but im in a different field material and flex wise , so that changes things again …
i reckon the 2 biggest reasons mc coys wide tails can still function , without being as traditionally out of control like most wide tailed boards …
1 yes his softer rails help hug the face better …
2 his rolled bottoms in the tails ( the loaded dome) also adds an area of low pressure to the centre of the tail helping it to suck down …
so you have a board with area and volume which has controlling features built in …
the one negative is the loss of twitchyness and a responsive feel , which you can get back by hardening the bottom edge again and flatening the tail back out ,
but then you get back to a wide tailed board you need a little more skill to operate and which has its range reduced back to small waves only …
the average mc coy is set up to have quite a large operating range for a wide thick board…
for my self i like to have a range of boards built to go well in specific conditions …
even tho i dont personally like the all round feel of a stock mc coy , ive heard plenty of favourable comments from average weekend surfers , who only have a sunday to deal with whatever the ocean dishes up that day …
i just had a laugh … i got a friend who always gets his widest points pulled about 4 " back , they have a very laser zap look …
any way after seeing me surf my magic carpet , he wanted one similar but with the widest point pulled way back , so its ended up a cross between the laser zap and the magic carpet, 6’-9" x 22 x 2 widest point 4" back with a 16 1/2 tail …im still working on it … might call it the magic zap …
regards
BERT
Hi Chip…I tried to send quiver it would stop half way…I dont know how to down size them to send…aloha cheyne
Yeh those comments are probably only valid historically. I’m not a huge fan of the McCoy boards I see locally though I can understand why they’re popular. The wide nose and thickness are good for catching waves and stability while the basic design allows for a degree of performance… it’s clever design but I’m not very sympathetic to the type of surfer who trades off such a significant amount of performance for wave catching ability.
Performance is relative. I, like lots of others I’m sure, have used and abused wide tails, domes, concaves, no-nose, pintails, flyers, 1,2,3 fins, etc. They all have trade-offs in certain conditions, and they all perform better than anything else in others.
I like the fact that people are still interested in variety, shape, style and performance.