it’s clever design but I’m not very sympathetic to the type of surfer who trades off such a significant amount of performance for wave catching ability.
Ha Ha Ha Blind…boy (saracasm) Tell that to Cheyne who beat Tom Carrol in 99 riding a wide tailed three fin nugget. Tom carrol was riding your stock thruster. There are other examples. Your average surfer is not going to surf like a pro simply becaue he rides what a pro is riding…
I don’t think you are giving up significan performance. That design has many looks and shapes to it for many other purposes. Thats why Geoff wants to know how you surf and what you surf before he shapes a board for you. Many don’t have wide noses at all. Just slightly wider than a shortboard. Are you saying that having a 11 or 12 inch nose makes much of a difference?
I see a lot of McCoys that are virtually mini-mals in terms of nose shape, almost parallel rails etc. I’m not suggesting that Geoff is not a good designer, just the opposite, I’m complaining that he has come up with a design which allows so many mediocre surfers to catch more waves than they should…as for Cheyne beating TC in a one off…I don’t remember the event but I’ll take your word for it however I’d be pretty sure that what he was surfing was significantly different to most of the McCoys I see in Sydney these days…I mean if the nugget is such a high performance design why is it that virtually no serious surfer rides one?
I was just having a little fun with the blind boy saracasm. I respect your opinion. surfing does have it’s share of them doesn’t it?
Cheyne beat Tom Carrol in france to win the 99 masters world championship. In fact Cheyne’s one on one record against most of the greats is pretty impressive.
I do like nuggets. Thats no secret here, but I don’t think they are the only valid design, just one of the best in recent years. Whats the big hangup about the front twelve inches of a surfboard that does nada? Pointed noses are not what makes a shortboard work; it’s still mostly the surfer riding the board.
The main reason you don’t see a major pro riding a nugget (if that is who you are talking about is:
the pro circuit is not about being individual, but about fitting into the current trend. It has nothing to do with being the best surfer only winning the most contest under a strict criteria that frowns on anything out of the norm. The pro tour has become a boys club whose requirement for membership is that you stay within certain bounderies and surf pretty much like everyone else.
I saw a local contest where the guy that clearly won was given second place and told by the contest director that he would have gotten first had he been on a normal surfboard. Wanna guess what he was riding? Yep. Nugget.
from 1979- 1982 few major surfers road a lazor zap either. They rode old style single fins or twin fins. The two most influential surfers of that era were Cheyne Horan and Mark Richards. One road a twin fin the other a Lazor Zap. What was one thing they both had in common? Both were Mccoy team riders. (M.R. before he went on his own)
Geoff tends to start trends not follow them. Give the nugget a little time. I don’t think it’s the replacement for any other proven design, but a nice alternative.
What do you mean catch more waves than they should? Longboards have been doing this for years. Proper tool for the proper job. Isn’t surfing about fun anyway and not what the pros ride?
I’m not talking about the pros solosurfer, just the serious locals, no-one rides nuggets or similar designs. I also disagree about narrow noses, I think they’re actually fairly vital to performance particularly when it comes to getting vertical. Wide noses tend to put more rail into the water during a turn and pull the baord into a flatter arc…this happens even on fish, which are essentially designed for flat faced waves with minimum chance for getting vertical…which is not to say that a good surfer can’t get vert on a fish or a nugget, just that it is more difficult.
Similarly I wouldn’t agree with your assessment of the influential surfers of that period. Mark Richards might have been a great surfer but I never saw too many on the twins that he rode and those that were never did the “wounded seagull” thing…so I’m not sure that his surfing had that much impact on the way others surfed. Cheyne was certainly more mainstream in his style and continued in some ways the sort of high speed stylish surfing that MP had developed a few years earlier but personally I would rate Bugs and Shaun Tomson as bigger influences than Cheyne on the majority of surfers.
I got to see most of these surfers on a regular basis through out that time so while it is only my opinion, it’s based on some pretty solid research!
I’m not talking about the pros solosurfer, just the serious locals, no-one rides nuggets or similar designs. BECAUSE YOUR AVERAGE SURFER TODAY IS PRETTY MUCH BEEN CLONED OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS. MAGAZINES HAVE MADE SURE OF THAT ONE. I also disagree about narrow noses, I think they’re actually fairly vital to performance particularly when it comes to getting vertical. WE WILL JUST HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE ON THIS ONE. I FEEL THEY MAKE LITTLE DIFFERENCE TO GUYS WHO KNOW HOW TO SURF. I THINK MOST OF THIS IN IN THE MIND OF THOSE SURFING AND STRESSING ON WHO IS WATCHING THEM. Wide noses tend to put more rail into the water during a turn and pull the baord into a flatter arc…this happens even on fish, which are essentially designed for flat faced waves with minimum chance for getting vertical…which is not to say that a good surfer can’t get vert on a fish or a nugget, just that it is more difficult.
STILL IN THE MIND.
Similarly I wouldn’t agree with your assessment of the influential surfers of that period. Mark Richards might have been a great surfer but I never saw too many on the twins that he rode and those that were never did the “wounded seagull” thing…so I’m not sure that his surfing had that much impact on the way others surfed. I DON’T THINK PEOPLE WANTED TO COPY THE WOUNDED GULL THING. MR PUT THE EMPHASIS ON PERFORMANCE AND SORRY TWINNIES WERE THE RAGE IN THE LATE SEVENTIES AND EARLY EIGHTIES. WHERE WERE YOU? NO I WOULD NOT THINK THE GUY (MR) WHO WON MORE WORLD TITLES THAN ANYONE EVER UNTIL SLATER HAD MUCH IMPACT ON THE WAY OTHERS SURFED. Cheyne was certainly more mainstream in his style and continued in some ways the sort of high speed stylish surfing that MP had developed a few years earlier but personally CHEYNE INVENTED THE FLOATER AND DID MANY MOVES NOT BEING DONE BY OTHER PROS OF THE TIME. THE UNDER THE LIP SNAP WAS A TRADEMARK MOVE AND HIS TUBE RIDING WAS BETTER THAN MOST. IN MANY WAYS CHEYNE WAS THE FORERUNNER OF THE BEST PART OF TODAYS SURFING PRIOR TO IT BECOMING SO CLONED. (EXEPTIONS LIKE LUGE EGAN AND A FEW OTHER POWER GUYS) CHEYNE RODE ALL OF THE WAVE NOT JUST PART EXPERIMENTED INSTEAD OF FOLLOWING THE HERD. I would rate Bugs and Shaun Tomson as bigger influences than Cheyne on the majority of surfers. MAYBE FOR GUYS FROM THE MID SEVENTIES. BY 1980 I DOUBT IT SERIOUSLY. BUGS EVEN ADMITTED IN HIS BOOK, THAT THEY FEARED CHEYNE WOULD SEND THEM ALL INTO EARLY RETIREMENT. IT WAS AN AWSOME TIME TO BE A SURFER. SO MANY NEW THINGS HAPPENING, SO MANY DIFFERENT BOARDS.
I got to see most of these surfers on a regular basis through out that time so while it is only my opinion, it’s based on some pretty solid research! I GOT TO SEE THEM AS WELL. I GUESS THATS WHATS COOL ABOUT SURFING IS WE CAN SEE THE SAME THING, BUT SEE IT TOTALLY DIFFERENT. I DOUBT THERE WILL EVER BE ANOTHER TIME IN SURFING HISTORY WHERE SO MUCH HAPPENED. THE TOP 20 SURFERS OF FROM 77 UNTIL 85 MIGHT NEVER BE MATCHED FOR INFLUENCE AND TALENT.
Blindboy,
have you tried a nugget? You should try one and give a critic of what you think. I still think the modern shortboard in it’s current state is designed for light weight surfers or really young surfers where floatation is a non issue. How many guys over 180 you see on the tour? The ones that are ride beefed up shorties.
I don’t have time to deal with all of this but a few points! Everyone agrees that ninety per cent of design is all in the mind, they just disagree about which ninety percent…I’m sticking with my theory!
I suppose we can divide influence into smaller and smaller time brackets and it looks like we have focused on slightly different eras…so I give Cheyne a bit more but MR probably even less…where was I? Two long spells on the North Shore, every pro contest in Australia from 74-79 and quite a few either side…many trips up and down the east coast…Bali, Java…
Oh and lip snaps I seem to remember a Surfing World cover of Kanga cracking one at Rocky Pt before Cheyne even left school!
I’ve never surfed a nugget but I’ve watched some talented surfers on them and my observation was that it limited their surfing in the vast majority of conditions…the point being reinforced by the fact that none of them stuck with the design.
I’m not disputing that it is a functional design, 80% of the surfers buying off the rack are of low ability and the nugget is a reasonable approach for them, along the lines of easier wave catching, greater stability but less maneuverability.
I’ve been surfing for a couple of hours in fairly crowded conditions everyday for the last few days, nugget sightings? One.
I’m not disputing that it is a functional design, 80% of the surfers buying off the rack are of low ability and the nugget is a reasonable approach for them, along the lines of easier wave catching, greater stability but less maneuverability. 80% OR HIGHER OF MOST SURFERS ARE LOW ABILITY ANYWAY. 80% OF MOST SURFERS OVERESTIMATE THEIR OWN ABILITY AND DON’T CONSIDER THEMSELVES AS LOW ABILITY. I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOUR COMPARING THE ABILITY TO. MANY GOOD LOCAL SURFERS RIDE EGGS, OLD FISH, OLD OUTDATED SINGLEFINS ETC. (TAKE JOEL TUDOR FOR EXAMPLE. HIS ABILITY DOES NOT SEEM TO BE HINDERED ON OBVIOUSLY OUTDATED EQUIPMENT) I PERSONALLY WOULD RATHER SELL BOARDS TO THOSE OF LOWER OR AVERAGE ABILITY AND LEAVE THE COOL CROWD FOR THE SURF DEPARTMENT STORES. THE OTHERS APPRECIATE CATCHING MORE WAVES AND HAVING MORE FUN. THE COOL CROWD IS NEVER SATISFIED WITH THEIR EQUIPMENT AND USUALLY BLAME THEIR BOARD FOR THEIR SHORTCOMINGS IN THE WATER OR NOT DOING WELL IN A CONTEST. THE MODERN THRUSTER MADE TO LAST JUST A SHORT TIME IS THE PERFECT EQUIPMENT FOR THEM.
I’ve been surfing for a couple of hours in fairly crowded conditions everyday for the last few days, nugget sightings? One. I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE ABOUT RIGHT. HYPE IS A POWERFUL THING, JUST AS PEER PRESSURE IS. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT LONGBOARDS?
I see a lot of McCoys that are virtually mini-mals in terms of nose shape, almost parallel rails etc. I’m not suggesting that Geoff is not a good designer, just the opposite, I’m complaining that he has come up with a design which allows so many mediocre surfers to catch more waves than they should…as for Cheyne beating TC in a one off…I don’t remember the event but I’ll take your word for it however I’d be pretty sure that what he was surfing was significantly different to most of the McCoys I see in Sydney these days…I mean if the nugget is such a high performance design why is it that virtually no serious surfer rides one?
but we all eventually meet up in the parking lot or on shore. i had some punk freakin out on me a couple of years ago cause i was riding a 7’8"custom built tri-fin in 2’ fla surf (if it was that big)catching more than him. who’s counting???needless to say when he saw me out of the water waiting on shore he stayed in the water. whats that saying about the alligator mouth with a mosquito ass? i’ll keep riding what works for me whether its a modified McCoy knockoff or some of my own. Imagine if we were all stuck with a 1964 single fin surfboard. progress?
I don’t really care what people ride, it’s mainly about their level of commitment and how they conduct themselves in the water…so some longboarders are a total pain, minimum skill, mimimum fitness and a big board, often poorly controlled, to try and compensate…others are completely cool. In general though, there are a lot more of the former than the latter.
I resent the notion that I’m some sort of clone because I ride a thruster, it’s a load of crap. Take ten good surfers on thrusters and watch them surf, they’ll all be different, look at their boards closely and they’ll all be different too. This clone line usually comes from the wannabes, the neverweres and the over the hillers…good surfers ride all sorts of equipment but the vast majority, the vast majority of the time, are on thrusters because they are the highest performing design. Hype and peer pressure? Common sense I think.
Oh and made to last a short time, I have two thrusters in my quiver well over five years old, still in good condition and still surfing well.
In general my observation is that there are no more surfers in the water than there ever were…just a lot more people who want to ride waves…to my mind a surfer is someone who has put some part of their life’s energy into it…the rest are just there because it’s fashionable…not hard to tell the difference!
I did not say you were a clone. I said most people that ride thrusters surf the same way and that style of surfing and that style of surfboard looks pretty much the same. Hence the name clone. It’s a general term and I think a valid one.
At least as valid as the majority of lonboarders or egg ete. riders are wannabes, out of shape and or over the hill. I know guys in Hawaii and other places with a roll that can rip many surfers I have seen a new one. Who really cares. I doubt you or most people you see surf are on Kelly Slater’s level. I am sure some feel a few notches down in their minds though. To me surfing is about a personal expression, catching waves and having fun. More waves equals more fun for the average surfer, which is why many of them ride longboards and hybrids.
I am totally with ya on the types who can’t surf at all and have no etique and hog waves and pat each other on the back when they cut others off.
As for the thruster being the right performance equiptment for all conditions or in general. I simply disagree.
I agree with you on being able to ride all types of equiptment. I ride twin fins, single fins (nuggets), longboards, eggs, and traditional thrusters. I like it all. These guys that paddle out on their surftechs and wear all the 70’s haircuts and wear all the neo 70’s surf clothing and have never learned to surf anything but a longboard come to mind.
I know this is an old thread and you may not get this but if you do mate I need your help.
I grew up surfin in Bondi and I remember you riding this board in the early to mid 80’s. I am amazed to see it again cos just recently I have been trying to find a pic of it. I used to surf at Makenzies bay back when the little cove used to have sand in it and there was a savage left hand wedge that used to break off the rocks. To cut a long story short I think Adrian Esposito ended up with that board and he passed it on to Jason, a mate of mine, that lived up the road. By the time Jay got it it was flogged and I did a lot of work fixing it up so he could ride it. I dont know what happened to it after Jason had it but what i do know is I always wanted it myself.
I was always a huge fan of the boards you and Geoff McCoy developed together and I ordered one of the first ever custom Lazor Zaps in the 80’s from Victor Ford’s surf shop at Bondi Junction and also bought one of the first nuggets back in about 95 which I still have today. But I never managed to get one of those pre Zap boards and I have always wanted one.
As far as I can remember this one was a 5’10"x20"x2 3/4" boxed single fin with the wide point 2 or 3" back from the centre. It had a 12 1/2" nose and somehere between a 12 1/2" and 14" tail. I know that it had Rolled V in the tail (the precurser to the loaded dome) and plenty of nose rocker but was pretty flat through the rest of the bottom with no concave or anything. I also think it was shaped with quite a pronounced tucked under edge on the rails that softned about 18-24" from nose and blended into a hard edge about a foot and a bit from the tail
I like many other of us old schoolers curse the day that we moved from boards like this to the wafer thin contest boards that are the easily snapped wave fodder that we find available today and it is for this reason I started making my own boards
The upshot of all this is that, since I was never able to get a hold of one and since it would appear that they are no longer in production, I would love to build one for myself. Would you be able to help me by confirming/correcting me on any of the above dimensions? Also I have no idea what the nose and tail rocker height were so knowing that would be a big help too.
I wouldn’t normally (or even have the balls to) ask something like this but that board has been like the holy grail for me for the last 20 years and seeing it here has re-awakened my burning desire to own it.
Any help you could offer in making this a reality would make me a very happy old surf rat.
Keep on chargin mate
Steve Furness
Former Bondi/Makenzies Grom and Current Curl Curl Ol’ schooler
THanks for the pic Janklow it is helpful but I am not sure that the dims of that board are the same as the one Cheyne is riding in the pic. The one you showed me is more lazorzappy I recall cheyne’s old one was wider in the nose almost a double ender only with the wide point drawn back from centre. I might drop in to 6oz next time I am over the south side though and have a look anyway.
Hi Cheyne, first off thanks for all your contributions to the surfing world! Thank god someone decided to deviate from the norm!!
I had come across a single fin shaped by Nat Young, that he actually shaped here at moonlight glassing back in 1979. My old boss gave it to me. Super fun board but fairly crude with clunky rails and too much vee throughout for how I thought the board could go. So I gave it to Rich Pavel and he streamlined it quite a bit. Rode that for a couple of years and had some great surfs on it. A customer of mine Jake Moss was pushing to make a board for me at this time, but I had too many thrusters and my mind was elsewhere around then. I pushed him to refine the single a bit more(he fought me) which I ended up falling in love with. Several generations later and we had what Jake calls the “spacecake”. We run a 8.5 flex fin which works out real well. The board has a really clean outline and works in all kinds of waves, but it really shines in clean, lined up barrels.
If you click on Jakes sight, on the right side of the page you will see a link “Spacecake video” (sorry couldn’t link it) some of the footage is of my business partner Kasey Curtis who pretty much dominates the right point at salt creek. The spacecake is his favorite board for the tube there. You can see how effortlessly it glides through the tube. But more importantly…you can see how far back he can sit on the foamball and still stay connected thanks to that 8.5 deep fin. Dragless drive is what he calls it. Thought you might like it. Cheers Jim
