Longboard Nose Concave....Function or Fantasy?

General Discussion
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Longboard Nose Concave....Function or Fantasy?

As Swaylock's members we all know that Rocker is King. I want to hear your thoughts about nose concave. TearDrop concave vs. a concave that works itself into the rest of the board......aaaahhhh....

I'm doing testing....my buddy wants a board that will nose ride. I say, "I've never hung ten, when was the last time you got 5 toes off the nose?" ................He lives in a kook surf world fantasy but he has fun and that's why were here.....to have fun......Ray

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I don’t like them cause they are slower. I prefer rounded bottom in the nose. 

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no need concave to noseride,it’s all in the rocker.and knowing when is the right time to step up to the tip.

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Noseriding is more a skill/timming/thing for me I can hang on my mini sims as long as the wave allowes me too.

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THANKS for posting this , Ray !

 

 I have always wondered the same thing , too ! [me being someone who has never hung ten ...I'd LOVE to , given the right waves / ability  :) ]

 

  tied in with the

 

 "function , or fantasy" ?  [ or , the third 'f' ....fashion !] thing ...

 

  another question .... 

 

  WHEN  was concave under the nose introduced , was it in the 1950s longboards , for instance ?

 

 ... and , if so ...

 

 ....was it shallower then , ? because perhaps the big ol' 'D' fins " of the day could have held the tail in 'better' , during noserides ?

 

I'm curious .....

 

and tied in with that , I guess ...

 

  is it as mals got thinner , lighter , more rockered , that nose concaves changed  [got deeper ?  longer ? I don't know ...]

 

  I hope there are some good noseriders lurking here who will er  'chip in' , with their experience[s] ?!

 

  personally ,

 

  the term

 

  "high performance longboard " / mal ??

 

 ...hmmmmm...  from what I have seen ,

 

  they are surfed off the tail by a lot of people I see at my local .... more like a modern thruster shortboard , so .....

 

.....nose concave is not needed so much for THAT style of 'longboard surfing' , I 'm thinking .  [in fact , maybe not a longboard needed for that style of surfing either , 9 times out of ten , methinks ...

 

  when I  made my first mal ['longboard'] with 'Hicksy' here  , years back , my thinking was ...."oh good , now I can catch more waves , and noseride" ! ]

 

  well... the first part was "right" , anyway !

 

  the second part ?

 

  "get off the tail ben , its NOT a shortboard !"   haha [sigh] old single fin SHORTboard habits die hard , eh ?! ...

 

 

If  " noseriding all the time " [?!] , then I guess "maybe"  nose concave "may" come into play [but the questions remain ...

1. "DOES it really make that much difference ?" 

 

2. .... if so , "how?!"

 

  

cheers , oh great noseriding ones ... I am all ears [and open mind !]

 

  ben

 

p.s. -

[aside:   I used to see it as graffiti , once ......" if you're going to ride a mal , then at least get on the bloody NOSE !"  ...did you have that graffiti in america , and worldwide , too ? ] 

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 this one for 'balsa' , and coque ,

 

bonjour , pote[s]  !

 

  si je suis une 'MAL' surfer ,

 

  does that mean I am , literally , a BAD surfer ??

 

  :)  :)  :)

 

   cheers !

 

  ben[t]

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[quote="$1"]

..."get off the tail ben , its NOT a shortboard !"   haha [sigh] old single fin SHORTboard habits die hard , eh ?! ...

...[aside:   I used to see it as graffiti , once ......" if you're going to ride a mal , then at least get on the bloody NOSE !"  ...did you have that graffiti in america , and worldwide , too ? ] 

[/quote]

Very funny - being relatively new to longboarding, I can relate!  Not a big hang ten fan, but I'm going to work on getting a bit more nose time.

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I can’t answer for Coque (he’s spanish, you know, not french) but, as far as French is concerned, if you say: “je suis un MAL surfer”, nobody will understand what you mean; “Mal” means a lot of things in French, from “bad” to “evil” and even “pain”.

Some examples: “Don’t put your fingers in your nose, that’s bad” translates to: “Ne mets pas tes doigts dans ton nez, c’est mal”.

                          “I’ve got a headache” translates to: “J’ai mal à la tête”.

                          “He went out of his head to do that” translates to: “Il s’est donné un mal fou (or “un mal de chien”) pour faire cela”.

                          “Never mind”…“Y’a pas de mal”.

                          “Everything’s going wrong”…“Ca va mal”.

                         “It’s so-so”…“C’est pas mal”;

                          “From bad to worse”…“De mal en pis”.

 

Stopping here because I could probably fill up a few pages. Well, you will never say that a surfer is “mal”, meaning he’s bad. You will say that he is “mauvais”, that he is “une tache” (“a spot”, like the sauce spot on your brand new shirt, you know), anything but not “mal”.

 

Oh, and, what about concaves? Well, if you want to sell a longboard as a nose-rider, you must shape some kind of concave in it or you won’t sell it. Does it work better? No, but it sells better. C’est déjà pas mal. (It’s already not that bad).

Sorry for the French lesson, guys. Chippy made me do it, Sir.

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Ben, 

it is just that you are a MALibu surfer, a longboarder, 

:slight_smile:

W

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Stingray

i am going to get an 18 inch wide vee nosed next, i read they are free-er, quicker to manoeuvre

wouter

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I was at best, mediocre on the tip but Peck Penetrator was by far the best noseriding board I ever had. 5’s were not even a challenge and I even got rare 10’s in the right surf.  One of my all time favorite boards for sure.

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As I haven’t tried that many boards without a concave (they all seem to have them!), my 9’ LB has a very slight concave ‘straight through’ to about middle and it nose rides fine. I can’t get ten but I think that’s more because of the fin set up (I have a 2+1 with a 7.5" and 2 3.5 sides). I prefer the sight concave over the tear drop as I like the smoother bottom contours.
I’m not that sure the concave contributes that much to the actual nose riding part but perhaps for dropping in and getting in trim it may help set the board up quicker(?). Concave is supposed to lift the board to plane I thought, maybe the act of lifting the nose fighting with the suction on the tail creates more hold?

I am still getting the hang of walking but I can shuffle to the nose no problem, there’s nothing like hanging a solid five along a nice 3’ straight section, you get so much speed and you just slot in, like being in ‘hyper’ trim :slight_smile:

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Nose concaves came into existence relatively late in the longboard era, when contest surfing began to put emphasis on long nose-rides. I think the first concave was done for a specific contest in 1965.

But, nose-riding was a basic longboard technique long before the concave showed up.

With a steep enough face, the low-rocker/soft railed boards of the time would accelerate as you moved forward on them. Speed was how you made sections. The further towards the nose you got, the faster you went.

If you couldn’t ride the nose during that era, you didn’t know how to surf. How smoothly and effectively one could “walk” the board forward and back was a measure of how good a surfer was.

The nose concave provided additional lift that would hold the nose up when weighted by the rider. The concave also added drag - having the effect of slowing the board down so as not to outrun the section. These extended the length of time you could spend perched on the nose.

A board with nose concave trades top speed for elapsed nose-time. One can debate whether that trade-off is worthwhile.

FWIW, even with an added nose concave, a modern HPLB will not nose ride as well due to high entry rocker, hard down rails in tail, multiple-fins, pulled in tail, etc.

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tsimpson!

What you wrote was helpful tom me and nice to read… 

w

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ditto that ^^

great post, thanks.

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Gentlemen if you go to youtube and look up the physics of nose riding by James Maclaren , all will be revealed .

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thank you very much , tsimpson ,  for answering the questions !

 

especially , also , for your comment on 'hplb's  !

 

  thanks , balsa , for the french lessons [and the laugh ...."chippy madfe me do it , sir ! " classsiccc, mate !]

 

  sorry , coque ...I thought your name looked french , what with the 'que' and all !  sorry , senor !

 

  cheers

 

  ben

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I’m pretty sure the concave helps, but the rails on these boards have to be round 50/50 in the tail. There’s also some belly in the back half of the board, and a bit more tail rocker. The rails and the belly give the board the grip, the concave helps lift the nose.

Here in Hawaii, the young guys can run up to the nose and get 10 toes over on the HP longboards but only for a few seconds then the board takes off and the rider has to get back on the tail. I see it all the time. It’s not unusual to see someone hang 5 all the way across a wave on a modern longboard.

I also see a lot more younger guys riding traditional style longboards and trying to get more nose time. I think there’s a trend towards riding the older style “logs” in Waikiki and other South Shore breaks, but when it’s solid overhead, they don’t work as well as modern style boards. I’m seeing some young guys who were die hard longboarders riding short boards when the surf is up.

I like concave under the nose on boards from 7’ on. My latest is concave about 1/4" deep then flat through the middle then vee without concaves for the last third. 8’ x 21" with tucked under rails all the way.

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Dusted off my 9’10" Bing Silverspoon the other day and went for a surf in some mellow waist high reef waves. I was trying on a different pivot fin just for fun (got the Arrow CJ 10") and I hadn’t surfed this board in a while because in Winter I usually surf other equipment and my Winter log is a 9’ Junod round pin single fin with no concave, just some V and a blend of 50/50, 60/40 transition to a down rail on the tail.

After the first couple of waves I got an eureka moment: turning ability in a single fin log is more important to noseriding than a concave, a big wide board and/or a big ass pivot fin… Why??? Well, to nose ride properly you need to be able to position your board deep in the pocket and you need to be able to turn the board fluidly to do that.

Yes, the Bing Silverspoon will work good in a perfect point break such as Malibu plus it is a very stable board once you get to the nose… but I would rather have something a bit more manouverable. Yes, I know how to drop knee turn and I can turn my 9’10" efficiently but I just got used to my easy turning Junod longboard.

Putting it up for sale to get a 9’8" ish 50/50 railed, kick tail, belly bottom, 22 1/2" Wide with the wide point back, a tail around 15 1/2" - 15" and a semi pulled in nose around 17" - 16 1/2". Thickness should be around 3" and heavy glassing because it is my oppinion that weight of the board helps with stability. As for the fin, I will use my Wayne Rich raked fin… Maybe I should shape it myself… If I can find the time arrrg!!! Working on my sailboat on my spare time and got a family and job to take care of arrrg… Wish I would win the lottery to dedicate myself to shaping arrrg!!!

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catfish,I would like to see you noseride the mini see moons.How long is it? Sorry to deviate from the longboard post,guys,but,just curious.making a 5.10x 23x3,twin fins glassed on…last one was  same dim.,but quad.broke it in too big surf.this one only for smaller surf.