Hey guys… Very cool discussion…I’m looking to shape my first board solo and I’m looking for a mini Simmons temPlate… I’m used to riding a longboard so I’m thinking somewhere in the six to seven range… Any help would b great …
I would appreciate it if someone could answer this question as I am currently designing an 8 foot simmons.
I have already made myself a 6’4" x 23" simmons with zero tail rocker. The bottom was completely flat with no entry belly, downturned rails all the way. Loved it! I loved the way it rode but one problem was that in certain waves it seemed to stick - slow down and then suddenly accelerate again as it started fully planing. Also in white water it tended to completely stall and just come out the back of the wave.
At first I thought the problem was that the bottom was too flat, providing too much wetted surface area and not allowing the water to release fast enough. This seems contrary to what Bob Simmons believed. I decided to put a concave in the bottom - 36" long 10" wide, rockering it slowly to exit at the tail at a depth of nearly 1". Now the board goes much better. Only ridden it a few times and it does not stick although it still does not like white water.
However in hindsight I am beginning to think that the problem was not due to the completely flat bottom and tail. Rather the completely downturned sharp rails up near the nose were catching water before the board was up on the plane, on slower sections of wave. Then when the rails finally managed to release on steeper sections it would break free and suddenly accelerate. I made this board when I did not know too much about Simmons design. I used a half shaped longer blank which I was given and cut down. Due to existing thinness in the front of the blank I was unable turn the rail line up and shape in any belly.
Surely this is the crux of the problem? Before the board is on the plane you need belly and upturned rails in the entry to displace water and create lift. Then zero rocker along the middle and rear of the bottom functions effectively no matter what the length of the board.
I have found a photo of an original Simmons which I have scaled to 8’ x 22" which I would like to use as a template. ( I did notice that there is significant tail rocker in Simmons board -?)
So in summary - before I commit to foam - I would appreciate some expert advice. Will zero tail rocker work effectively on an 8 foot simmons as long as there is correct belly? ( if I cut down a stock blank then I might have to be content with a minimal amount of tail rocker)
Can post photos and drawings if thats of any help.
Is there no one in the Swaylocks universe who is able and willing to answer this question?
O Lord I pray that you will move the hearts of the prophets of Simmonite to speak
I’d help if I could, but 8 ft is out of my range. Look on the Hydrodynamica site and see if you spot some pictures. Failing that, get in touch with some of the pioneers whose names appear in the early blog and email them. There is a strong chance you’d get a good answer.
all the best
‘‘Rather the completely downturned sharp rails up near the nose were
catching water before the board was up on the plane, on slower sections
of wave. Then when the rails finally managed to release on steeper
sections it would break free and suddenly accelerate’’
This is why I got away from the “drop noses”. Stuffed em too many times on take off. The wide tails want to push the nose under on take off.
Thats my take on it.
Thanks GregTate. I had another look at Hydrodynamica. The Simmons planing hull on there is what I basically want to shape. Looks like 10 foot which I want to scale down. On closer inspection it looks like the bottom is virtually flat from the midpoint back. Has a concave too I think. Must be an original Simmons then. Looks like it. I like the old style way it rides in the video. Also sent a message to Proneman who first posted a photo of his very nice 8’4". Most people on here are making mini simmons so 8’ seems to be adventerous territory. I should go ahead and just make it. Its going to at least float and move forward im sure.
Thanks Ace. I rode my 6’4" mini simmons yesterday in 2 foot onshore mush. It went really well on clean(ish) face as well as in the white water although with the latter when it started stalling and I moved my weight forward it tended to pearl. I could see this was due to the dropped nose as well as the very low nose rocker. Apart from the 8 footer I would like to shape myself a “proper” mini simmons - another say 6’4" with more nose rocker, belly and upturned nose rails. Maybe I’ll be so happy with that I wont need an 8 footer.
@ Ilovesabrina… How did you design your template… Six four sounds like a good length for me … Thanks
Ilovesabrina, not sure how you want it to perform but the old Simmons boards were all about trimming and going as fast he could down the line, not really made to turn. I think if you go with zero rocker and want to throw it around a little you might be dissapointed.
I made a 7-0 based off of a John Cherry Simm 21 and used what I learned on my first 5-9 mini simmons and it works great. Slight belly and up rails in the first third to flat in the middle to a concaved vee through the last third out the back. I think something that wide in the tail needs a displacement feature like vee to get it to go rail to rail better plus some rocker. I don’t see how or why a concave back there is needed on such a wide tailed board, it has tons of lift anyway.
I used a blank I had been given by a friend - a 9’2" windsurf board that had been stripped down - Burford blank. As an experiment I cut it down to 6’4" and ended up with width 23" nose 20" tail 20" tail block 16" thickness 3 3/8" which seemed reasonable. 0 tail rocker. I was forced to accept no belly in the nose and a nose rocker of 3.5" which is a bit borderline in certain conditions. I weigh 13 stone / 182 pounds and it has plenty of float - paddles really well and easy to duck dive. There are lots of good ideas and templates here: http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/show-us-bars-soap-you-have-created-your-laboardatory-post-your-mini-simmons-pics
A lot of guys will tell you you can go much shorter.
I am using Boardcad for my templates. I find it easy to use. http://boardcad.org/index.php/Main_Page
Great JohnnyK3. I want to turn it a bit but give priority to speed and glide over throwing it around - I can do that on other boards. A bit of vee in the tail seems like a good idea. As far as concave is concerned I am inclined to think that at slow speeds when the board is not planing concave stops water sticking to the flat bottom. I would like to make a board that keeps going in small weak waves. I am not sure if this is sound hydrodynamics. Either flat bottom with concave or minimal tail rocker without concave but not both or just plain flat. The former I would understand is what Bob Simmons did.
9’9 x 22 1/2 x 3 1/8 Simmons inspired yes i I made it cookie monster
Interesting. No fins? Just concave? How does it ride?
It’s only laminated so far. I will be putting a 10.5 center box and probox for twin keels. So I can ride it as a single or twin 
Aaah. 9’9" very nice. Must be the longest Simmons on here. I have advised to use the same sort of fin set up on my 8 footer. Versatile. Is it my eyesight or do you have a single concave running the entire length of the board?
As far as my original question goes I have been advised to have a tail rocker of 0 to 1.5" and leave the concave as it is difficult to shape properly. Keep the last foot or so of the tail completely flat. Im still wondering whether to have a bit if tail vee too.
It’s a single in the nose to flat throughout the rest. For speed. I actually had a disaster today. I was sanding it fell off te rack and got a huge ding hahah. So fixed that. I’ll post it with my bamboo keels And the fin I made for it
Interesting to have concave in the nose as opposed to the traditional belly. What would the difference in performance be?
i want to nose ride it with my d-fin i made for it single in the nose, and ride it fast as a keel hence flat. Will it work? only testing will tell. Its all about doing stuff that your not sure will work or not. thats how you learn.
with the d fin 
Great! How much nose and tail rocker do you have a2tall?