Can you please visit this website and give your opinion on this “revolutionary” foam product? http://www.salomonscore.com/home.asp http://www.salomonscore.com/home.asp
Can you please visit this website and give your opinion on this > “revolutionary” foam product? > http://www.salomonscore.com/home.asp I saw Kelly Slater riding a lot of boards by them shaped by al merrick.
I’m liking the idea that new stuff is being developed by companies like Surflight, AST, Southcoast foam and Salomon. Is Simon Anderson the master of the understatement or what? I remember the interview after he won the Pipeline masters - with the most dead pan expression anyone could possibly muster he said, “I’m really stoked…” (definitely NO exclamation point) - I think Salomon has really made a smart move including him on the R&D team and I have a feeling that his flat affect during the interview on Score in no way reflects a lack of enthusiasm for the project. I’m liking the idea of tunable flex and stronger, lighter boards. In the diagrams that flash by, it looks as if they have an interesting composite vacuum lay up. Unfortunately, what works for their team riders may not work for me. S.A. says that prototypes are expensive to tool up. That probably means a limited number of rather generic designs available to retail customers. I’m not liking the idea of over priced pop outs. For surfers able to afford them, it might be a way to go. Surftech has it’s followers and they’ve been able to come up with a pretty good selection of models. BIC even seems to have been able to hang in there for now. A true custom board may be harder and harder to get in the future.
I’m liking the idea that new stuff is being developed by companies like > Surflight, AST, Southcoast foam and Salomon. Is Simon Anderson the master > of the understatement or what? I remember the interview after he won the > Pipeline masters - with the most dead pan expression anyone could possibly > muster he said, “I’m really stoked…” (definitely NO exclamation > point) - I think Salomon has really made a smart move including him on the > R&D team and I have a feeling that his flat affect during the > interview on Score in no way reflects a lack of enthusiasm for the > project. I’m liking the idea of tunable flex and stronger, lighter boards. > In the diagrams that flash by, it looks as if they have an interesting > composite vacuum lay up. Unfortunately, what works for their team riders > may not work for me. S.A. says that prototypes are expensive to tool up. > That probably means a limited number of rather generic designs available > to retail customers. I’m not liking the idea of over priced pop outs. For > surfers able to afford them, it might be a way to go. Surftech has it’s > followers and they’ve been able to come up with a pretty good selection of > models. BIC even seems to have been able to hang in there for now. A true > custom board may be harder and harder to get in the future. John i agree it looks cool!! like a surftech! it’s way strong last at least twice as long as a well glassed board… Ride the same board for a year most surfers just can’t do that. Always looking for the fresh feel that comes from a new custom board. I see a future with more small local surfer/shapers still building boards the “Old School” way. I’m just glad trends change LB’s in the late 80’s then HB and eggs filled the shops in the 90’s now Retro’s? Whats next??? I never see a future without shapers and custom made boards. I’ve been a part of surfboard building most of the past 30 plus years and i hope to live it for another 30… As in the past so be the future. A Pop out is a POP OUT. They get old to… Support your local shaper. Rob
…First off Polyurethane foam displaces weight to it’s center, much like wood.Giving a surfboard more stablity.Because of this factor the foam allows for better foward drive. …second Styrofoam displaces weight to the outside or to the rails. In the case of surfboards,this causes a corky/flippy,unstable feeling to a board.It also lacks forward drive. …third Surftechs,and Bics are basically entry level or kiddie boards.I have talked to some pros with tech models ,and they claim that they don’t ride correctly,and ajusting the board to make it work better is a lot of $$$ and time. …I’m all for innovation,as long as it works correctly,and it’s not some mass media garbage hype,some company is trying to shove down my throat.Herb
Can you please visit this website and give your opinion on this > “revolutionary” foam product? > http://www.salomonscore.com/home.asp Those guys that made the website should get a really good bitchslap. So much of everything but information. regards, Håvard
Herb, you lost me on the displacement thing. I have been shaping some styrofoam longboards & Then having them glassed with epoxy. My take, is that you can adjust the float by ajusting the volumn (i.e. thickness) to achive performance characteristics and add in all the standard rocker & rail changes to get the board to react the way you want it to. I think the first mistake I made was thinking in terms of how poly foam floats & shaping with that mind set. Styrofoam…hand shaped. is as good as poly if its done right. To make light poly boards you have to sacrifice strength by glassing with light weight cloth & sanded hot coats. Styro & epoxy can be glasses heavy & still be light. I will give you this though. There isn’t any hotshot pros. riding styros on the money circuit. So I dought if they will be taking over the market anytime soon. Pop outs will always be pop outs. Strudy toys for the masses.>>> …First off>>> Polyurethane foam displaces weight to it’s center, much like wood.Giving a > surfboard more stablity.Because of this factor the foam allows for better > foward drive.>>> …second>>> Styrofoam displaces weight to the outside or to the rails. In the case of > surfboards,this causes a corky/flippy,unstable feeling to a board.It also > lacks forward drive.>>> …third>>> Surftechs,and Bics are basically entry level or kiddie boards.I have > talked to some pros with tech models ,and they claim that they don’t ride > correctly,and ajusting the board to make it work better is a lot of $$$ > and time.>>> …I’m all for innovation,as long as it works correctly,and it’s not > some mass media garbage hype,some company is trying to shove down my > throat.Herb
Herb, you lost me on the displacement thing. I have been shaping some > styrofoam longboards & Then having them glassed with epoxy. My take, > is that you can adjust the float by ajusting the volumn (i.e. thickness) > to achive performance characteristics and add in all the standard rocker > & rail changes to get the board to react the way you want it to. I > think the first mistake I made was thinking in terms of how poly foam > floats & shaping with that mind set. Styrofoam…hand shaped. is as > good as poly if its done right. To make light poly boards you have to > sacrifice strength by glassing with light weight cloth & sanded hot > coats. Styro & epoxy can be glasses heavy & still be light. I will > give you this though. There isn’t any hotshot pros. riding styros on the > money circuit. So I dought if they will be taking over the market anytime > soon. Pop outs will always be pop outs. Strudy toys for the masses. …With handshaped styro you can ajust things to give you a better feel,I will agree to that.As far as weight goes I prefer a little weight(not all think that this is good,and prefer a lite board).What I have described is the general dynamics of both foams.Styro is like a balloon when you step on it the pressure displaces the mass boyancy to the outter lines of the object.Where as poly foam keeps it more center mass.Hope that helps.Herb
What you guy’s should understand is that salomon’s new blanks are not about revolutionizing the blank or the shaping process. They are about making a better popout. Yes there will allways be shapers,I think it is going to get very regionalized and there will be many little guys a few giant one and pretty much no mid size companys. Talk to a sharp eye or a lost - those guys are really sweatin it right now. It seems change is on the horizon. Lets just hope that these skilled craftsman will still be able to make an honest living. What really irks me is watching the mags kissing ass to these “great innovators” when all they are worried about is they’re advertizing dollar. Still doin my thing-S.A.
…With handshaped styro you can ajust things to give you a better > feel,I will agree to that.As far as weight goes I prefer a little > weight(not all think that this is good,and prefer a lite board).What I > have described is the general dynamics of both foams.Styro is like a > balloon when you step on it the pressure displaces the mass boyancy to the > outter lines of the object.Where as poly foam keeps it more center > mass.Hope that helps.Herb Definatly with you on this Herb. I rode the tech boards for about 3 years, before I saw the light. The feeling of a heavy urenthane board seems so much more smooth and predictable. I always thought the hollow feeling was due to the lack of stringer, what you say about displacment is very interesting. Does this mean all EPS foam boards, even the hand shaped ones with stringers, will have that “hollow” feeling? For me, Urenthane is perfect.
…With handshaped styro you can ajust things to give you a better > feel,I will agree to that.As far as weight goes I prefer a little > weight(not all think that this is good,and prefer a lite board).What I > have described is the general dynamics of both foams.Styro is like a > balloon when you step on it the pressure displaces the mass boyancy to the > outter lines of the object.Where as poly foam keeps it more center > mass.Hope that helps.Herb I think I understand what you are saying about the displacement. As it was explained to me by a very knowlegable styro guy, glassed styrofaom is more like trying to sink an inflated basket ball. It does float higher in the water. I think it’s time to ride the polys again, to apreciat the Differance. P.S. for a real change of pace take out a balsa log sometime even more float than styro! with enough weight to do the ultra glide highspeed runs…
…Ray, for your own book of information to refer to: Balsawood or any woods for that matter displace mass/float to the center, like polyurethane foam(even better in most cases).I do agree with you on the ride with balsa…try it with a 10’+ gun in big waves,you’ll never want to ride anything else in big waves…how about epoxy and balsa?hummm something to think about? …don’t get me wrong,I have rode just about everything I could get under my feet at one time or another,and it’s good to experience as much as you can…heck,I’ve ridden Hollow W.A.V.E.s,pop outs from all decades including the crappy ones they sold at Shell gas stations,Surf Techs,BIC type foam injected jobs,and an a array of strangely constructed crafts,but I always come back to a standard surfboard of polyster resin,and polyurethane foam built by hand.That’s what works best for me.Herb
What you guy’s should understand is that salomon’s new blanks are not > about revolutionizing the blank or the shaping process. They are about > making a better popout. Yes there will allways be shapers,I think it is > going to get very regionalized and there will be many little guys a few > giant one and pretty much no mid size companys. Talk to a sharp eye or a > lost - those guys are really sweatin it right now. It seems change is on > the horizon. Lets just hope that these skilled craftsman will still be > able to make an honest living. What really irks me is watching the mags > kissing ass to these “great innovators” when all they are > worried about is they’re advertizing dollar.>>> Still doin my thing-S.A. I’m just a surfer. I have riden all 3, Foam, wood, and popout. Wood is just too heavy, popout is just too light, foam is just right. Glass it the way you want it and surf it the way it should be surfed. It is all a matter of choose. I think the classic foam with 7-1/2 Volan top and bottom, works better then anything else. That is just my thoughts.
Definatly with you on this Herb. I rode the tech boards for about 3 years, > before I saw the light. The feeling of a heavy urenthane board seems so > much more smooth and predictable. I always thought the hollow feeling was > due to the lack of stringer, what you say about displacment is very > interesting. Does this mean all EPS foam boards, even the hand shaped ones > with stringers, will have that “hollow” feeling? For me, > Urenthane is perfect. …The lack of a stringer gives the board a more twisty,less responsive feel,and adds to that hollow feel you were talking about(like those original Morey/Doyle sponge boards,super twisty).Surftech put a sandwich of gook on it to lessen the twist from the lack of having a stringer.As far as all eps blanks I don’t know? I would have to say, yes because of the general dynamics of styrofoam. I did get to build/ride a open cell styro-foam board with a fiberglass/carbonfiber stringer,and this was the best of the best as far as riding qualities on a styro/epoxy board goes .The problem with the open cell stuff is it’s brittle,and in a short time, I snapped the board,not good,concidering it had double the glass on it,that I would have put on a medium wt. glassed p.u. blank with polyster resin.The open cell blank still displaced the mass boynancy to the rails, but not as bad as eps does.Herb
What you guy’s should understand is that salomon’s new blanks are not > about revolutionizing the blank or the shaping process. They are about > making a better popout. Yes there will allways be shapers,I think it is > going to get very regionalized and there will be many little guys a few > giant one and pretty much no mid size companys. Talk to a sharp eye or a > lost - those guys are really sweatin it right now. It seems change is on > the horizon. Lets just hope that these skilled craftsman will still be > able to make an honest living. What really irks me is watching the mags > kissing ass to these “great innovators” when all they are > worried about is they’re advertizing dollar.>>> Still doin my thing-S.A. Salomon are developing this blank to get some credibility in surfing so they can get into the surf apparel market. Which is fine for them, but I can’t see what the boardmakers will get out of it - the s-core has got some pretty complex looking fabrication in it so the boards will end up being quite expensive. If Al Merrick is selling boards because the kids want the same gear Kelly uses, what is going to happen when the boards Kelly rides cost twice as much as the standard technology?
…The lack of a stringer gives the board a more twisty,less > responsive feel,and adds to that hollow feel you were talking about(like > those original Morey/Doyle sponge boards,super twisty).Surftech put a > sandwich of gook on it to lessen the twist from the lack of having a > stringer.As far as all eps blanks I don’t know? I would have to say, yes > because of the general dynamics of styrofoam.>>> I did get to build/ride a open cell styro-foam board with a > fiberglass/carbonfiber stringer,and this was the best of the best as far > as riding qualities on a styro/epoxy board goes .The problem with the open > cell stuff is it’s brittle,and in a short time, I snapped the board,not > good,concidering it had double the glass on it,that I would have put on a > medium wt. glassed p.u. blank with polyster resin.The open cell blank > still displaced the mass boynancy to the rails, but not as bad as eps > does.Herb Thanks again Herb, I will pass the info on to friends that are interested in this kind of board, but are worried about the drawbacks. That “brittle” feeling definatly extends to the tech’s. I was never certian if it was the epoxy, pvc sheet foam, or eps core that made those things as rigid as an iron rod, but they are easily the stiffest boards I’ve ever road. I can actually watch my p.u. board flex over chop and absorb then energy, where the tech would stick or bounce sending the impact to your chest and feet.
…First off>>> Polyurethane foam displaces weight to it’s center, much like wood.Giving a > surfboard more stablity.Because of this factor the foam allows for better > foward drive.>>> …second>>> Styrofoam displaces weight to the outside or to the rails. In the case of > surfboards,this causes a corky/flippy,unstable feeling to a board.It also > lacks forward drive.>>> …third>>> Surftechs,and Bics are basically entry level or kiddie boards.I have > talked to some pros with tech models ,and they claim that they don’t ride > correctly,and ajusting the board to make it work better is a lot of $$$ > and time.>>> …I’m all for innovation,as long as it works correctly,and it’s not > some mass media garbage hype,some company is trying to shove down my > throat.Herb Thinking about what you said about the differing dynamics of styofoam and PU. Does this seem right? PU blanks don’t have uniform density - the foam at the core is lighter and less dense than the foam on the outside. Disregarding foil snd rail shape, the rails have less bouyancy than the middle of the board. When you turn there’s less upward pressure from the rails on a PU board. This must be the reason for displacing to the centre in PU boards. Styrofoam has uniform density - so the rails would have more upward pressure than a PU board hence the corky feeling. Therefore when building a styrofoam board you’d have to have lower/thinner rails to make it work more like a PU board. What do you think?
Hey Herb, have you ridden a Swizzle by Morey just curious.
thanks Herb, now I rationally understand the “funny feeling” I got from riding an unconventional foam\epoxy board and why I ran back to the good old NeverChangedIn30YearsTechnologyblahblah board! PS maybe it’s becasue I don’t like those boards, but it seems that most of the people I see surfing surftechs and things like that are a bit similar to each other, mostly in their 50s, good surfers, but with a somewhat unfriendly attitude and not many smiles on their faces
Thinking about what you said about the differing dynamics of styofoam and > PU. Does this seem right? PU blanks don’t have uniform density - the foam > at the core is lighter and less dense than the foam on the outside.>>> Disregarding foil snd rail shape, the rails have less bouyancy than the > middle of the board. When you turn there’s less upward pressure from the > rails on a PU board. This must be the reason for displacing to the centre > in PU boards.>>> Styrofoam has uniform density - so the rails would have more upward > pressure than a PU board hence the corky feeling.>>> Therefore when building a styrofoam board you’d have to have lower/thinner > rails to make it work more like a PU board.>>> What do you think? Now that does make since. I could not make heads or tails out of it before this.