Not just another fin system thread.

I’ll be experimenting with fin count and positioning with my upcomming board, so I’m looking for a fin system that allows me a little freedom.

My questions are~

1.) After reading a thread here, I saw that most people reccommend Probox or Lokbox. I have no experience with Probox–where can I find fins for the system?

2.) Does having that much adjustability really make a difference?

3.) Should I even bother with fin boxes and just do a glass-on setup?



I use probox.  I get my fins shopping on internet - foam e-z or greenlight are two that come to mind.  I like removable fins for transport, and for using the same fins on different boards.

I wish there were a fin system out there that allowed you to freely adjust toe and cant as well as the ability to move it forward or backwards like the locbox/probox…


I always go with FCS just because of the variety of fins and the ease to obtain them. The figure-8 style is way better than the x2 system since it’s glass on and doesn’t need to be sunk into the deck. Also, the angle is built into the plugs so its a bit easier to set your cant accurately

…your answer is: 4WFS

  1. any surfshop in the world. Probox is made to use FCS fins.

  2. YES! Try it and you will see.

  3. I like boxes. This is a personal preference thing though.

I like Probox but 4WFS looks like a good option too although I’ve never used them.

The main differences that I can see between Probox and 4WFS are:

  • Probox uses FCS fins that are available everywhere with the largest selection of templates and foils.

  • 4WFS offers more / different adjustability and an underglass install.


Just an observation. Walk into any glass shop/factory in So. Calif., look around at boards on the lam racks or in racks waitng for the next phase of the buiild and you will see mostly Futures Fin Systems and FCS.  Futures being the most commonly used . FCS plugs still a close second. FCS Fusion boxes running third behind its  predecessor.  You may or may not see a Pro-Box setup and you will most likely not see a Lokbox.  No opinion on whose system is best.  Just an observation.  

PS-----   Oh almost forgot;  Guaranteed you will not see a 4wfs or whatever they are anywhere in a production factory in the "Golden Orange".  Again not a statement about whose system is best. 

Thanks for all the replies.

Do you guys know what specific shops is Southern California carry ProBox fins? Would Basham’s have them maybe?

Most likely Bashams has Probox fins and or FCS which  also fit Probox.  Larry at Fibre Glass Fin Co. will have what you need for sure.  Foam ez in Westminster probaly has 'em too,  Larrys info:  Larry Allison Fiberglass Fin Co. – 23112 Mariposa Av. Torrance, Ca.  (310) 503-1383.   I should have said in my previous posts on this topic that Pro-Box appears to be the favorite system used by Swaylock devotees.   Lowel.

McDing nailed it.

In Oceanside Ca., with no less than 20 glass shops(mine included),

Future Fins and FCS fins dominate.

Probox is used  very seldom. Lok Box too.

Years ago, Swivel Fin System came along.

You could adjust Toe, Cant and could adjust fins forward and back.

Problem was, fins were all out of whack. No-one could adjust the fins properly. Only industry pros could. Because the average Joe does not have jigs to properly set them.

Great idea if you have the tools and know-how to adjust them.

If not, you could take a great board and ruin it with not only the wrong fins, But put them in the entirely wrong positions.

4WFS does have many options. If put in the hands of someone knowledgeable.

Personally. I prefer to glass over the fin system. Just plain stronger.

Cutting a hole after the glass job and putting in a fin system seems a bit archaic.

Which is why FCS went Pre-Glass also.

4WFS system seems the way to go put in the arms of someone who knows how to adjust fins.

I prefer Future.

Not promoting any one fin system. Larry has a great fin system and fins.

Just stating the industry standard.

Barry Snyder Designs / Windigo Surfboards

My two cents:

If you want adjustability, 4wfs is the way to go. Probox would be second (no toe in, but cant and fore/aft). 4wfs is not compatible with other fins. 

If you want under the glass, Probox is not the way to go. 

If you want FCS combatibility, Probox and Lokbox are the way to go (except for micro Lokbox). Robin Mair and Larry can make you fins, if you don’t want stock FCS fins.  

If you want Futures and FCS combatibility, Surfinz F3 is the only way to go. Hard to find, though. Fins Unlimited is the only place to sell you these in Socal.  




…futures is industry std only in USA

and I do not know why, cause is the worst fin box, fusion is way better.


4WFS is not used in USA cause is not a USA company, just simple plain like that…if futures were from other place, I bet that no shop in USA used its .

There’s actually a 4WFS distributor in California. Also, I doubt that the country of origin has much to do with it as plenty of international surfers use systems designed in the US


I contacted the 4WFS reps today to see if I can get a trial set sent out. If they work well we may pick them up and sell them here in Hawaii and I may start running them on some of my boards, but I’m still skeptical about them. I feel like lots of moving parts on something like a fin plug may be more trouble than it’s worth

…you wrote this: "I wish there were a fin system out there that allowed you to freely adjust toe and cant as well as the ability to move it forward or backwards like the locbox/probox…

so my response.

Yeah but you claim that futures are only popular in the US because it’s a US company… so how do you explain the plethora or riders from South America, Australia and Europe that use it?


A companies location really doesn’t have anything to do with it’s popularity in an international sport such as surfing. Now, if you were to say that a companies size had something to do with it, I would agree with you there. When futures first came out (much like where 4WFS is now) NOBODY used them, simply because we already had FCS - why fix something that isn’t broken? But as the company grew so did their marketing budget, and as more people discovered it they became more popular. 


Honestly, not many people I know of have even heard of 4WFS (I hadn’t) - and I’m sure that if their system is actually any good, that they will become just as popular once they get the budget to grow. They’ve only been around a couple years and have a mere six small-name team riders when compared to Futures 23 top-tier riders including Mochado, Healy, JJ and others. 

…you are trying to enter in a discussion that I do not have time right now to participate.

What I tried to say in previous comments is that you wanted a box that can handle all those movements and I said check 4WFS, nothing more than that.

The other comment was referred with this type of analogy: look how the Japanese guys or market love the boards and other americana made in California and pay whatever.

Futures was used in S American countries a lot but not now.

Probox is a smart choice for a back yard surfboard builder becasue you can fine tune your ride and learn about how fin position makes a big difference. I’ve personally made some no-so-good shapes work much better by playing with ProBox’s adjustability. Now I have first hand knowledge of the subtleties of fin placement through experimentation. Big fan of ProBox for learning and box strength, FCS Fusions for production/strength/ease of install.


So if Futures isn’t being used much in So. America now??  Whose system IS the most popular system used by manufactuers in So. America NOW??   Your comment about the Japanese and their buying habits or preferences made absolutly no sense.  Perhaps you could clarify or expound on that comment???

…right now is FCS (plugs). At least in Brazil, Perú, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile; I do not know exactly in Venezuela and Ecuador.


-in my opinion if 4wfs were a product from California, they could have more “impact” in the world wide surf industry.


Our shop is probably 70% Futures

25% FCS mix of fusion and plugs

Installed 2 sets of probox in the past month although on SUPs its really a better setup.

Installing the first set of lokbox in maybe 8 months this week. I tore down my install kit actually because I didnt think I would be doing any more.

Bashams doesnt have Probox FYI you pretty much have to get them online or straight from Larry.


Probox you can also frankenstien Futures fins into.

I like the Fin-S system but the install process is wayy to many steps for production.