Wow! Definitely not a Phil Edwards model. All of those had a very specific stringer setup and a foil label with his name, in addition to the Hobie lam. That appears to be a later vintage Hobie shaped by Phil. I’d say it’s pretty damn rare. Never seen an Edwards shaped Hobie with offset fin. The virtually showroom condition makes me think it isn’t really old. 80s or early 90s vintage, perhaps? Who the hell knows?
Anyone out there know when Phil last mowed foam with a Hobie lam?
It's a beauty. The signature and label look authentic enough.
Not sure why the fin would be offset.
I've been told that on the old boards with the routed slots it was to maintain stringer integrity. With a surface glass-on like yours, I can only imagine it was to create some sort of asymmetry in the ride - as in predominantly ridden at a right hand point break? If you can accept the concept of the fin as the 'centerline' rather than the stringer, the tail would be effectively narrowed on one side.
That was supposedly the idea behind the Morey-Popes with offsets. Sort of a twist on an assymetrical tail. By having the fin offset, one side of the tail was effectively wider than the other, by virtue of the fin being closer to one rail.
Also, I’d say the signature looks very authentic.
The original Edwards models had a foil label between the center and right-hand stringers. The Hobie script was either red or blue on those labels.
Photo of an original Edwards lam:
BTW- How much are they asking for this board?
The shop wants $1100. Too much?
Get um!!! I would inquire about year it was made, though. Just to be certain as to what you’re getting.
Phil stopped shaping some time ago. Makes a board like that pretty valuable. You could probably re-sell it for double. More, if you have contacts in Japan.
BTW the production number on the stringer is 2518.
As for the stringer setups, I think the 3 stringer became the standard for the Hobie PE models. But, Phil used lots of different set-ups when he shaped the boards for himself. This photo is circa '60 or '61, I think he shaped these special for a Hawaii trip; so, they may be a bit of an exception. True about the nose and tail blocks…cannot ever recall seeing them on his boards.
Was wondering when someone would post that picture. I believe that picture was taken from an early Bruce Brown film. Perhaps "Surfing Hollow Days". You can see from the picture that the board on Phils right is not a typical Phil Edwards Model outline. The one that Phil is handling is a template that appears to be the same or very similar to a Phil Edwards Model. The stringer arrangement of the first two boards are not typical of a Hobie Phil Edwards Model. Phil was not producing the Phil Edwards Model for Hobie at that time. Phil was making boards under his own name I've had two of the Phil re-issues from the '90's. Still have a 9'6 with a fin box. Also had but sold a few years back a 10'6 with a wooden "D" fin. Have ridden the 9'6 alot and in good waves it is a great speed shape. Surfed it at Mala a few times on good days. Almost ran over Ole on it one day. Phil was shaping in the 90's. Someone mentioned Bill Stewart, Ron House, Munoz etc. That was the deal and that was the crew. Phil got fed up about something and quit once. Eventually came back again but quit a second time. The story was that when he quit the second time he took his tools with him. That was sometime in the mid 90's. Stewart had a deal worked out with Hobie and Phil. Hobie Alter had attempted to Franchise his name in the 90's. There was a shop in Oceanside, another on Maui. Both of those franchises were dropped. He had some kind of franchise worked out with Stewart. Hobie Alter is no fool and I'm sure that anything manufactured by Stewart that had a Hobie logo on it was supposed to generate a royality for Hobie. Phil most likly got a a straight shaping fee and money for his signature. When Phil retired there was still very high demand for his boards; That's where the hobie "Legend" came in. When we speak of Michael Hynson; let's not forget that he was very influenced by Phil Edwards and worked for Hobie for awhile. The board he took around the globe with him in Bruce Brown's :"Endless Summer" was a Hobie. PS I can't imagine Phil Edwards staying mad at Hobie for any period of time. Three people that are easily accessible and know the facts are Terry Martin, Allan Seymour and Henry Ford.
Good memory. Yes, I did pull the photo out of “Surfing Hollow Days”. One question (this is probably covered elsewhere and I just cant find it)…the Hobie PE model seems much narrower and a bit more piggish than the earlier PE boards that were supposedly the template. Is this the case or am I way off base here?
I would not call them piggish. They are what I would call an early speed shape. They were pulled in, with a narrow nose. They were not noseriders. In fact they had belly in the front third. I always thought the rear third or tail of the Edwards template had sort of an abrupt transition from mid-section to tail. The Hynson Model was also a speed shape with belly, but the template had a nicer curve. The Edwards paddles and catches waves easily, provided your not surfing mush. Funny that Phil would come up with a model that was not a noserider. He was one of the best noseriders ever.
I was considering shaping something along the lines of a PE for myself sometime in the near future. I have plenty of examples of the outline and the dems, but I did not know about the belly - any idea where I can find a good side profile and a rocker template?
Don't misunderstand me about the template. When I said abrupt, what I probably should have said is that the Edwards Model had no hips like a pig would have had at that time. Yes there is belly thru the front 1/3. The rail is basically a 50/50 although perhaps the beginnings of a downward trend. Let's just say somewhere between a 50/50 and a 60/40. The interesting part of the shape to me was always the rear 1/3 or tail. The deck at the tail was domed a little. I've always thought that what Phil did was take the boards that he had shaped during the 60's and refine their various design aspects in the 90's. I don't really have a way of creating a rocker profile for you other than doing hard measurements @ every six inches on paper. By the way Clark did a Phil Edwards blank. I think it was a 10'3. I'm assuming that is what he used for the Phil Edwards Model during the 90's. Where are you located? It would be better if you could get a look at one. Having mentioned these design elements to you; They would jump out at you now if you were to look at one in person.
I’m in Honolulu. I’m sure that someone has one of these boards hanging around. Randy might have one on hand or know where to look, but I don’t know him personally. I was hoping to just order a custom from USBlanks and it would be nice to order the blank as close as possible and save myself the trouble of cutting-in the rocker. As for the dome in the tail, was he just trying to keep more foam back there or is there some other designerly element that I don’t know about yet? It sounds like I really do need to get my hands on one to understand all the little nuances of the design.
Hi TPO -
I measured the rocker on a reissue Phil Edwards model I have.
Nose: 4 1/2"
Tail: 4"
I also checked the belly measured across from stringer to rail apex. There is belly throughout on the board I have. The tailblock is pretty close to 60/40. I didn't notice a pronounced dome deck.
Nose: 7/8"
Center: 1 1/4"
Tail: 7/8"
As far as I can tell, the front 2/3 of the Phil Edwards is nearly identical to a couple of Skip Frye Eagles. The aft 1/3 is a different story... Frye puts a slightly flatter rocker and a panel vee with down rails/hard edges in the tail.
In my opinion the main thing that made the original PE models ride as they did was his big reverse template skeg installed pretty far back. In that regard a Phil Edwards (with big fin) rides about as stiff as a Lance Carson model with the big skeg right at the tailblock.
I've ridden them both and neither would be my first choice if I could have only one board.
On the blanks, I have included a shot of the Phil Edwards Clark. Bruce Jones and Yater have blank designs in the US Blanks catalog that would do if you ordered with a reduced nose rocker.
"Domed a little" not "pronounced". The transition from 50/50 to 60/40 is what most likly gives the tail that appearance.
"In my opinion the main thing that made the original PE models ride as they did was his big reverse template skeg installed pretty far back. In that regard a Phil Edwards (with big fin) rides about as stiff as a Lance Carson model with the big skeg right at the tailblock.
I've ridden them both and neither would be my first choice if I could have only one board."
John,
My general rule of thumb is that I shape boards for myself that I normally wouldn't/couldn't buy. If there is something I know I want and I know the shaper has it dialed in...I'll shell out the $$ for it. If its a risk, Ill save myself a nice chunk of change and try shaping it myself. So, I'm going into this one knowing that its a bit of a chore (I've heard the PE board can be difficult to ride.)
My daily driver is a 10' Ole, and although it is outstanding over a broad spectrum of conditions, it begins to loose its luster when the waves start getting overhead (it still handles them mind you). With the summer swell on the south shore coming, I need to find something more suited for those shoulder-to-2'-overhead-days; however, I want to stay within the vein of "classic" longboards if I can (nothing too "progressive"). If anyone has a better suggestion than the PE model (which I know is not exactly a "big wave" board, but still may have more of the speed and responsiveness that I'm looking for), I'm wide open to suggestions. The PE was just my first thought and I have 2 other boards to finish before I can start on this one. Lots of time to think it over.
There's got to be somebody there in town that has one for you to take a look at. Ask around and good luck.
I would certainly agree with your assessment of the template of the Hynson Red Fin models. They were pulled in but with a very nice curvy hip just aft of center. I think the noses were about 15 1/2 21 1/2 in the center and they had a 6" wide tailblock. Although they varied, mine had a lot of dome in the deck and lots of belly in the bottom making for very thin rails. Not knife edge but real thin rounded egg shape.
You can see the deck dome pretty clearly in this photo:
The Hynson models also had more nose rocker than most other boards in
1965. Certain more the the PE’s. Probably an inch or more right in the
last foot or so of the tip. The extra nose rocker is also visible in the above shot.
You can see the outlines with the curvy hip area in this trio of Hynson Models taken at the G&S 50th anniversary in 2009. Hy II on the left, HY I in the middle and original redfin on the right
There was a 10’6 template hanging on the wall in the G&S factory back in the sixties/early seventes and Paul Bordieri, head shaper, once told me it was the Daddy of most of the shapes that ever came out of G&S. Not sure about the Hynsons or not since I wasn’t around the factory then. But I still use that hip template that I took off a '64 G&S on all the boards I build and it’s very curvy like the Hynsons were.
