Problem with PowerPad??

I suppose that the ‘standard’ way most are sanding is with the 8" pads and sticking sandpaper to the pad with stickit or 3M spray glue and trimming the paper after. I have an 8" pad and used it this way for a while, but I recently bought a 6" pad because I can get rolls of sticky sanding discs from an auto supply place near me. I found it quicker and easier to just buy the 6" discs and slap 'em on.

I have run into a problem though. I noticed right away that I had to be careful when puling off the discs as it seemed like the layer of ‘denim’ on the powerpad wanted to peel away. And finally not long ago I got a small 1-2" slice that ripped up leaving a flap. It means that the discs now tend to loosen at that point and will then fly off.

Any idea of how I could fix this? Figured that using epoxy would just make a hard/high spot on the pad which would be a no-no. What glue could I use to stick the flap down? Should I just cutaway the piece?

If it were me I would have shot an email to Pro-Box Larry and asked him about his product before posting up here.  Larry@ProBoxfinsystems.com

I'm not sure where you got that ''standard'', but all the sanders I know cut the paper with scissors before sticking to pad (or use pre-cut), and use the 3M Feathering Disc Adhesive that the PowerPad is designed to work with.

I have had the problem of paper “buildup” on my powerpads when using 3M super 77 and sandpaper on my powerpads. Tough to rip off the used paper clean without leaving stuck paper to the pad. Recently I spent the time to carefully peel off all of that old paper residue, and I switched to the adhesive backed sanding discs that you describe (got a bunch of them in multiple grits from Canada via EBAY; good deal). Now I don’t have the problem anymore. Make sure your powerpad surface has no leftover paper when you apply a new one. Then they should peel off clean.

You could try to glue down that flap with the stronger 3M spray glue? If that doesn’t work. Maybe just suck-it-up and get a new powerpad and follow the instructions above.

Aloha Johan, Jamie and others

If the canvas backing tears up it is probably because you are not removing the old piece of sandpaper while it is still hot (temperature wise) from use.  The glue will be softer and willing to release.  If you sand in a way that doesn’t get the glue hot but does dull the paper, you can still heat it up by setting up a sacrificial piece of plywood on your work counter.  Hold the pad flat on it and press hard as up ease up to high RPMs to quickly heat up the sandpaper and glue.  Don’t be afraid to get it HOT, when the wood smokes, the sandpaper will come off real easy.  Then modify your technique/system to remove your old sandpaper as soon as you stop sanding on the board and it is still hot.

Jamie, Super 77 is WAY too powerful to use for sticking on sandpaper.  Use the specialized adhesives made for the task.  In the old days it was Glop, now it is Taki and 3M Feathering Disk Adhesive.  There may be others but these are the common ones that jump to mind at the moment.

If per chance, you get a buildup of old paper and glue on a pad from time to time (and you will for sure with Super 77) turn it face up and use a piece of wood rounded on the end a bit.  Press this firmly near the outer edge of the pad while spinning it at about 3000rpm or more.  Move it around a bit to CAREFULLY heat the glue in that area.  You will see the glue soften and you can then work this heat wave in toward the center of the pad gathering the old glue and paper with it as you go.  It will ball up and fly off, just keep going into the center of the pad where you can grab off the final glob.  Just don’t press too hard or wear into the canvas cover and rip it.

If you get a tear in the canvas or at the edge of the pad from catching it on a fin or something, you can glue it back in place with contact cement.  But the pad will never be the same so always calculate for some loss or damage to the pads and replace them from time to time.  Also, the pad’s foam hardens over time and it will also loose some of it’s consistency such that the fastest and most accurate sanding will be done with pads that are newer.

Always cut your paper in advance, leaving a minimum 3/8" overhang over the edge of the pad.  Rarely will pre cut sheets have enough overhang.  And they typically won’t have the quality of abrasive on them that you can get in sheets for much cheaper.  I prefer Hermes.

Another tip is to use a piece of 60 grit sandpaper rolled up and carefully sand a 1/2" arc into the side of the sanding pad’s foam, just below the canvas edge, leave some foam tapering out under the canvas side.  This and the sandpaper’s overhang will give you a consistent release across the pads edge that will keep you from making “swirlies” or gouges in your work.  And if you are sanding glass on fins it will allow you to 90% sand them out with the machine as the pads edge will conform better to the fillet at the base of the fin.

Often sanding pads or grinding discs aren’t truly round or true to center.  Use a sanding block with 60grit and while spinning the new pad press it up against the pads edge and angular side to true up the pad.  This will remove a lot of uncomfortable vibration and allow you to work longer and faster with less fatigue.  Plus it will allow you to be very accurate with the edge of the pad when doing detail work in channels, wings or glass on fins, etc.  All pads will need this from time to time also, as they age.

Hope this helps

 

Hi Johan1, Sorry you had some problems with your pad.  incorrect use of glue and method played a roll in pulling the canvas away from your foam. As the others explain here the use of a proper glue will help in not having this problem in the future.

 

I believe you buy your material from Fiber Glass Supply in Washington. Send them a email of this thread to replace your pad at no charge and I will credit them for another POWER PAD. A copy of this thread will act as a confirmation return from me. Thanks for supporting Power Pad.

 

Thanks Bill for a great detailed answer along with the great answers and help from my other Swaylockian Bros.

 

Mahalo, Larry

www.standupfinsbylarryallison.blogspot.com

I started using the Tacky stuff after I got tired of glue/paper build up on the power pads, but I am noticing that this stuff goes bad…dries out or generally becomes ineffective and I seem to be going through the product quicker than the guy behind the counter implied.

What’s the proper way/amount of using Tacky?

PS. for a good time, you can burn off the paper/77glue using a broad chisel to quickly move the fire around the pad and loosen the glue…

PPS. I wasn’t really serious…but ask me how I know that works

HIGHLY recommend the temporary spray adhesive “Air-Tac” sold by Fiberglass Hawaii. A one second burst of spray on the paper, and you’re good to go. The can lasts a long time, no build up on the pad, paper stays on for sanding but comes off easily when peeled away.

Thanks for the wealth of info guys! Bill, that seems like all the knowledge of pad care, tweaking and use that I could ever need. Thanks a million.

That was my main question at first, if the sticky discs were good for the pads or not. Super 77 is what I was using on my 8" powerpad. It would come off ok when hot … which is likely what I didn’t do with the 6" disc to damage it.

I checked with the auto supply places here for Taki or 3M Feathering Adhesive and they didn’t know what it was or didn’t stock it. Fiberglass Supply had Taki, but UPS/USPS wouldn’t ship it cross border.     … I just checked their site and FS now has the 3M stuff on their web catalog.  … hopefully UPS/USPS will get it to me.

Larry … that is an insanely generous offer. If you will standup that far, I’ll go one up as well and buy a soft pad to complement the medium that will be replaced.  … and some 3M Adhesive as well.  Thank you so much.

I also heard that Fiberglass Supply is now going to be carrying your fins. Thats great news. I wanted some when I called last week, but they were waiting on the shipment. Those will be nice to have.  I assume they will be carrying the ProBox catalog. For the single fin styles, will they have most/some of the templates that can be seen on your blog?

Thanks again everyone.

 

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Thanks for the wealth of info guys! Bill, that seems like all the knowledge of pad care, tweaking and use that I could ever need. Thanks a million.

That was my main question at first, if the sticky discs were good for the pads or not. Super 77 is what I was using on my 8" powerpad. It would come off ok when hot .. which is likely what I didn't do with the 6" disc to damage it.

I checked with the auto supply places here for Taki or 3M Feathering Adhesive and they didn't know what it was or didn't stock it. Fiberglass Supply had Taki, but UPS/USPS wouldn't ship it cross border.     ... I just checked their site and FS now has the 3M stuff on their web catalog.  .... hopefully UPS/USPS will get it to me.

Larry ... that is an insanely generous offer. If you will standup that far, I'll go one up as well and buy a soft pad to complement the medium that will be replaced.  ... and some 3M Adhesive as well.  Thank you so much.

I also heard that Fiberglass Supply is now going to be carrying your fins. Thats great news. I wanted some when I called last week, but they were waiting on the shipment. Those will be nice to have.  I assume they will be carrying the ProBox catalog. For the single fin styles, will they have most/some of the templates that can be seen on your blog?

Thanks again everyone.

 

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Thanks Johan1, Yes the guys Pat, Matthew and Jose are great guys and will be caring the fins from all 3 Blogs, Single Fins, ProBox and SUP Fins with more fin designs coming, so add the links to your favorites my friend. For sure Fiber Glass Supply is the one stop shop on line for your needs along with the green movement from Greenlight. Stoked to have such a strong support group from all of you which generates my creative mood with alot of new things.

 

Mahalo,Larry

www.standupfinsbylarryallison.blogspot.com

     Howzit afoaf, Just put the tacky on the little raised dots on a Power Pad and when you put the tacky on let it sit for about 30-60 minutes before attaching sand paper. This way you have very little build up yet the paper sticks just fine and easy to take off when it's time to change paper. You will not get a heavy paper build up with this technique especially since some of the tacky stays on the paper when you pull it off.Hope this helps. Aloha,Kokua

I found that if you warm the sandpaper with a heat gun when you need to remove it, the heat helps to reactivate the adhseive. This makes it a doddle to remove the old sandpaper in one piece, without damage to the fabric backing of the pad and tends to take all of the old adhesive with it.

Barnfield’s explanation is the ‘old school’ standard- tried and true. Nonetheless, it takes a high level of skill to heat the pad to the right tenp without damaging the pad, and then using the stick technique to clean can tear the pad .as well as, the hot glue balls that lodge in one’s forearm hair that only come out with one’s hair is not cool.  Hard not to chine in but a heat gun makes it possible to use the super 77 and similar adhesives, if taki is not available.

 Kokua’s tip only leads to sanding with less sanding surface and more material use.  Try sanding those release tits off pads when new and boards sand so much more efficiently.  

Try a heat gun and make fins from that old piece of plywood…

…speaking of glueing,

super 77 IS the way to go, super 75 dont work and super 90 is too much for these applications.

Happens that most seems that dont know how to use it properly (as with most tools)

Its the faster way to glue and interchange papers without worries.

 

Here s a bit of explanation:

1- Grab your cutted spaper and apply a VERY (one) thin uniform layer of 77 from a 1´ distance; nothing more than tacky, you dont need spots glue or like that.

2- Apply the paper to the pad, not let dry; push a bit.

3-Start to sand.

4-After few minutes you may be need other paper, so pull out this one and put the other in the same way.

May be seems stupid description, but this is the way that you dont make leftovers in the pad

I use this way in FERRO super soft pads too (to name a not so rigid model, and with no problem)

 

-In colder weather (10ºC or so) if you need to go faster as previously mentioned, apply 2 thin layers and let dry at least 10 seconds.

 

I have been using s 77 in more than 20 years exclusively and in the first moments I had those leftovers issues that I solved this way.

-3M Super77

-CLOTH Backed Sandpaper (not paper backed)

-Remove immediately after sanding while adhesive is still hot

Works great for me and keeps the PowerPads clean

~Brian

 

     Howzit ghettorat, I don't quite understand what you mean since what I was saying just meant less glue on the pad so less mess to get off, might have misunderstood me but no worries and plenty of good ideas here and I have sanded thousands of boards. Aloha,Kokua

Sheesh I feel like a klutz.  I take it that 'grinding' the edge of the block wall out back to remove all the goobered up crap on mine isn't recommended? 

    Howzit John, Don't feel bad, Mark Angell just does it on the concrete slab in his Garage. Aloha,Kokua

Hey Kokua, not trying to be a know-it all, but If on the next new pad you get, you take those mold release tits off by lightly sanding them with a rough paper, while the machine is running, you wont burns so much sandpaper up.  Those high points on the pad transfer through and create hot spots- especially on higher grit papers.  And as for mentioning use of the heat gun I was seeing if someone else knew my secret.  Yeah, I have sanded tons of boards too.  If you want clean pad and be able to save more sandpaper try  this, or continue the old way and hope do not you leave sandpaper on too long with too much adhesive.  I hate sanding, I hate buying new pads, and have ruined my share and always payed, I have  dropped. finned, overheated. and gouged the bastards while cleaning,  I learned the hard way by a bunch of crotchity curmugeons, yet still am intelligent enough to think of better way like Barnfield, whom I totally respect payiing homage to Buckmeister.  I did not have an internet to learn from or boast on when I learned.  Test me if I am wrong I can take it, I have heard it before, yet on this I am not.  We will see if you thank me later.  Funny how insideout, a guy from England with a total of six boards made sees the benefits of utilizing a heat gun, It took me thousands…

    Howzit ghettort, We must be using different brands when it comes to the power pads since the tits on my pads are barely noticable and  hardly stick up and I have never had them project through to make for worn spots on the paper. I could put the tacky any where's on the pad but since the tits are evely spaced on the pad I use them. Been using a heat gun for years and need one for getting paper off that I glued on with Clearco adhesive. Aloha,Kokua