Problems with a Firewire.....

General Discussion
1

EDIT: Firewire have agreed to replace my board. I was contacted by a number of people about the board, all of whom were really accomodating. Couldn`t fault the service tbh.

Oh God…Im still writing like Im in an exam…

Hey all,

I`ve never really posted on this site, but have always returned when the need for some genuine knowledge about boards is required, and here I am again.

I bought a 60" Firewire Flexfire around Christmas - one of the first to arrive in the UK - and have been delighted with it. However, Im now beginning to have problems with it. The board does recieve some serious use, as I`m a stereotypical frothing grommet, and so surf for days at a time :D.

There is some SERIOUS delamination taking place. Any area that recieves regular pressure has delaminated. The front foot mark is seriously sunken, the area on the rails I grab to duck dive, the spot just in front of the deckpad where I push with my knee when doing small duckdives and underneath the deck pad where my back pad is are all sunken and squishy like there is an air pocket underneath. They also make a “scrunching” noise when I push on them.

The board has had a small ding. But it did not penertrate through to the foam, just indented the glass slightly. This didnt even happen in the sea, but was caused by myself trying to rush de-waxing the board in preperation for a trip, and pushing on two small stones. I took the board and dried it off. Then left it for probably 36 hours in the house - ie in the warm. Then I used epoxy ding stick to repair the ding. Then, just to make sure, and to hide the repair, placed a vinyl sticker over the dings that appears to be waterproof. Due to all this, I doubt very much that this is the cause of the water inlet that is causing the delam.

The real problem I believe, is what seems to be a small tear in the membrane of the valve. However, never having examined the membrane before, it could be part of the valve. I have never fiddled with the Gore-Tex vent and have always kept it free from all wax, dirt etc. etc. So is it possible impact from a wave could have split the membrane? The board is kept in a padded board bag so impact from a sharp object is extremely unlikely due to this protection, but also beause the hole is probably 5mm across and the membrane is sunken into the deck.

I followed the problems that Firewire were having with QC on this site, but was satisfied they had it sorted. Now I`m not so sure. Do you think that Firewire will accept responsibility for the delam? Will they try to pass the buck and blame inproper care of the board for the water penetration?

Any help would be apprecated, as Firewires cost approx £500 - $1000ish - over here, and due to the fact I`m a student (17 years old phyically, 10 years old mentally) cannot afford to replace boards all the time.

Any input would be appreciated, this has really come as a devestating blow :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

Occ

2

I have seen this happening a lot with firewires.I have a flexfire and it did the same thing but it did take about a year to do it.I have 2 friends that just bought the new taj model about 2 months ago and their boards delamned also.My board also made that crunchy sound as well.Their customer service is real good so if I were you I would go to their website and email explaining your problem.I think you have a good chance of getting a replacement for free.Hope this helps

3

firewire have all the skills and knowledge

theres no excuse for the delams other then a corporate model is driven by the allmighty dollar

the problem you have wrt to delam is not likely to happen on one of my boards

i use a minumum of 6 oz glass over a high density pvc skin and use patches under the skin in those areas

i figured that shit at out by board no 25

i would have hoped a company like firewire would have worked it out after a few thousand

at the end of the day you got ripped off

500 pounds is almost 1500$nz dollars

i would make u 2 boards for that if you lived in new zealand

and they wouldnt delam!

i guess it must cost a lot to ship a boad from china to the UK

is the glass delamed from the skin or is the skin delam from the core?

these things can be repaired easily enough without addin much weight

and if you use pvc foam a 6 oz glass it will solve you delam problem

and the board will proabably go better

as for the vent

well shit happens

ive been trialling them for 6 months

no problems but they have plastic caps and are recessed so less prone to damage

when you get someone to repair the delams they can dry out the water

this will take some time maybe a couple of weeks in the sun

i would do the job for about 230$nz dollars

my boys are heavy on there boards

ben does airs every other wave ,no delams

miles charges everything and eats boards for breakfest,no delams

i had problems with similar delams with both my team riders

and after extensive testing and r and d , sorted out the problem

check out the board ladys website for info on how to repair

4

as I`m a stereotypical frothing grommet, and so surf for days at a time :smiley:

over here, and due to the fact I`m a student (17 years old phyically, 10 years old mentally) cannot afford to replace boards all the time.

Seventeen year old, stereotypical forthing grommets, with minds like 10 year olds, don’t say, much less write, things like “stereotypical frothing grommet”.

There is nothing stereotypical about your post. Come on out with it bro.

5

paul

       there seems to be a cple points here what material are the skins

what are they atached to the core whith

& remember e p s dont like water so you have got to be watchfull of any dings

if this is from water damage i doubt firewire can be held responsible

                                                                                      huie
6

not sure huie but ive had waterlogged boards that dont delam so its unlikely to be water

but ive had a fair few delam in the same place from heavy footraffic

this doest happen with 80kg density corecell etc with 6oz glass and patches

no way

with low density skins and not enough glass the bond between the eps and deckskin fails from compression damage

always in the same places all the way to 3 years ago when sabs showed me he used patches of kevlar under the skins in those places

and also sunova reinforce those places as well

my grommets first board held up 8 months now and it started to do what he describes it was a ultra light balsa deck

i inlayed pvc in those places and no problems now

the pvc absorbs resin and has a very high point load compressive strength

much much higher then pu

his latest board has hardly even the slightest dent in the same places

i expect it will last for years

which is amazing for and aerial surfer with lots of water time in good surf

a PU of the same weight could snap the first surf or only last 3 months under same abuse

btw Dave you do have a point

maybe in us and nz its odd

but there plenty of aussiegrommets that can speak very good english

australia has a reasonably good education system

and the UK is even higher i believe

so not uncommon language for a pommy :wink:

7

Occy,

Check with the dealer where you purchased it or even contact Firewire. There were some that had delam problems but from what I’ve heard they stood behind them. They seem to be fairly durable. My friend just had his fly off his car and land on the highway. No damage other than a few scratches.

Dave D

8

was it in a boardbag then

cuz it would bruize if it hit on the rail or tips

anyboard would

this is a different type of damage

it is “point load compression damage”

it s like hitting th same spot over and over with a rubber mallet

the force is concentrated in one area with a certain mass and velocity

9

Take it back to the place of purchase, I’ve heard of this issue a couple of times and in every instance Firewire have replaced with a new board. It’s disappointing as the boards work well, I’ve never had any problems with mine but I always keep an eye out for any issues.

From your post it does sound like you are heavy handed & giving the board a thorough workout? I don’t think Firewire’s are glassed as strong as they could be though.

10

paul you missed my point ?

11

did i mate?

sorry

okay last i heard firewire use pu for skins

thats problem one

if yours was one of the first its possible that it used a crosslinked pvc or corecell

next problem could be glass schedual and or sandthroughs like surftechs have

in other words even corecell wouldnt handle abuse if there was no glass in that area

its easy to sandthrough rail contours

however as huie was hinting at

it could be a bonding issue with the core to skin or perhaps the core itself

im betting it would be a bonding issue over a core issue

now perhaps a combination of bad bonding and water intrusion could be the issue

but in reality its the heavy traffic areas most effected

so using a crosslinked foam with a decent glass schedual and patches should reduce or alleviate this

basically if you treat them like a good woman

they will look after you for many years

if you abuse them they will fall apart

FIX YOUR DINGS

12

Huh, guess I should come clean with it? Im a stereotypical, frothing grommet.....who also happens to do well at school and is hoping to go to Uni to study medicine. I thought you might apprciate coherent thought. See, Im on a roll now. I could have just posted “My board, is like, all weird. The deck is all crunchy. What do I do?” But thought you might appreciate a bit of effort on my behalf. And I never talk like this, this is “exam bull$hit mode,” just finished my exams and cant seem to get out of it. Sorry guys, I guess I betrayed your faith…:stuck_out_tongue:

OK, your posts have really reassured me. I know someone over here who will be able to do repair the board if thats the route I end up having to take because FW deny replacing it/repairing it, though from what people have said, theyre normally pretty good bout it?

Ive checked along the rails, and there doesnt seem to be any damage. There doesnt seem to be any damage anywhere. I think its the vent. And as for the ding, I`m very, very, extremely, 99.9% positive, that there was minimal water intrusion and even if there was, the board was dried out.

I know what your saying about the price, but at the moment a standard PU board costs £350 - £400 from the “big name” shapers ie JS, a bit less for a more local guy, ie JP or BeachBeat. So if the board will keep its flex longer, not ding as much, and overall just last longer, £100 more seems to look a lot more reasonable. Im not particuarly hard on the board. I dont do airs, try the odd tailslide and turns and things. I dont surf ridiculous slab waves or huge waves....mainly cus we dont have them…just max of overhead and a half, and maybe head high beachie barrels. The board gets used a LOT though. And since its my only board, it gets used every time I surf.

Occ

P.S. I`m welsh…am I still a pom?

13

I wonder if all that white paint they use to cover the core-cell is the cause of this problem. The outer glass is actually bonded to the paint not the core cell. If the paint was too thick you could get the paint layer shearing as the board flexes.

14

could be that pinhead

but it sounds like its underneath to me and the cruchy sounds is the polystyrene beads seperating

so “point load” compression damage has fcked the core cuz the skin and glass schedual was not tough enough

and/ or inadquate bonding of skin to core

be interesting to open her up and check the layup

if it is a warvel/PU skin then that the answer( cant handle it)

if its corecell then the glass is to light for a heavy footed surfer

it needs patches under the skin on the knee, big toe, and rails where you grab with gusto

i fell sorry for your girlfriend bro:)

your repairer should remove the skin in the delam areas and patch in new corecell with 3 oz under

6 oz over with epoxy resin

this is a way here

http://www.boardlady.com/bottombubble.htm

i wouldnt do it that way wiith the pour foam

looks messy

id route it out 10mm deep and inlay new polystyrene

you know so the inlay was 3mm belows the surface

and then feather the new patch in

btw i take it back, you were not ripped off

you were not

i hope firewire can do better, it good for everyone if they lift their game

its a pitty they ditched the two guys with brains

15

But if the Gore-Tex has split, which I think it has after looking at it again, then the board needs a new valve too. Just hoping Firewire will accept responsibility for it being one from a “dodgy” batch. Anyone on here had one replaced by Firewire? If you have, would you mind posting the serial number? At least roughly, just to give me an idea if I was unlucky enough to have one from the same batch…

Thanks,

Occ

16

[indent]If the valve was leaking there would be water in there so take out the valve and put the board so the valve is facing the ground.Then put the board out in the sun.If there is water in there the water will come out.I know this from my own experiance.Listen to me contact firewire and tell them your problem it is very possible that they will replace it for you.[/indent]

17

I think Im going to leave the board alone until Ive had a reply from Firewire. I just dont want them trying to say that I damaged the valve because I fiddled with it, or some other crap way of wriggling out of this.

Thanks for all your help and replies, will post again on here to let you know the outcome of all this.

Would still like to hear from anyone else who has experienced problems with Firewire boards though, mainly out of curiousity.

Occ

18

I busted a 6’2" flexfire in not-too-heavy conditions. I contacted Firewire about it, they verified the serial number was from the infamous “bad foam” lot (I did have to take pics of the serial number, the broken board, and copy the receipt to prove it… fair enough, IMO), and offered to replace the board for free. I requested that I get a 6’0" quadraflex as a replacement, they obliged, and they shipped it directly to me, no hassles.

Note: I first tried contacting them through the customer service form at the firewire website, but for whatever reason the first submission was lost or not received and I wound up resubmitting a month or two later after receiving no response. You might want to contact Mike Milliken directly. I’ll PM you his email address.

Thread regarding this topic at surfermag.com; search the term “firewire feedback needed”

19
Quote:
firewire have all the skills and knowledge

theres no excuse for the delams other then a corporate model is driven by the allmighty dollar

the problem you have wrt to delam is not likely to happen on one of my boards

i use a minumum of 6 oz glass over a high density pvc skin and use patches under the skin in those areas

i figured that shit at out by board no 25

i would have hoped a company like firewire would have worked it out after a few thousand

at the end of the day you got ripped off

500 pounds is almost 1500$nz dollars

i would make u 2 boards for that if you lived in new zealand

and they wouldnt delam!

i guess it must cost a lot to ship a boad from china to the UK

is the glass delamed from the skin or is the skin delam from the core?

these things can be repaired easily enough without addin much weight

and if you use pvc foam a 6 oz glass it will solve you delam problem

and the board will proabably go better

as for the vent

well shit happens

ive been trialling them for 6 months

no problems but they have plastic caps and are recessed so less prone to damage

when you get someone to repair the delams they can dry out the water

this will take some time maybe a couple of weeks in the sun

i would do the job for about 230$nz dollars

my boys are heavy on there boards

ben does airs every other wave ,no delams

miles charges everything and eats boards for breakfest,no delams

i had problems with similar delams with both my team riders

and after extensive testing and r and d , sorted out the problem

check out the board ladys website for info on how to repair

Silly, you are saying your first 25 boards delamed??? WTF, I thought your first board was the tits and not delamed tits up!

I love the part about team riders. Now does team riders mean they compete professionally in surfing or you gave them a board??? Can I be a team rider and I you can refer to me as “my team/crew in Hawaii”.

No vent on my board please. My ventless surftech never delamed. Surftech has repair care for street people, single mums, children and the ederly.

the "repairicade and repairicare program is funded by a 5% fee added to all surftechs except in NZ where the price is double because everyone there qualifys for the program.

20

I can see another thread lockdown approaching. The barometer is dropping fast. The clouds are darkening and rolling angrily across the ranges. The air has gone still with barely a leaf rustling. The storm approaches. LOL.