Bill , sorry for the confusion that i brought to the discussion… after i posted that catri, spiral v thing i went down to the pit and was sanding a really pretty yellow green black acid splash on a 9’0" that i needed to get done, and maybe it was the acid splash, but i remembered something more clearly… the bottom that i was trying to describe wasn’t catri’s spiral v, it was johney rice’s “hooker”, he did Oceanside boards, and the board’s rails actually hooked down, they didn’t have the flat v going into the tail, but they hooked back downward at the rail…i don’t really remember what catri’s “spiral v” looked like,we need to get off the computer and go for a surf at “Quicksilver’s,”, that is what we’ll be calling the break just haleiwa of Sunset ?.isn’t it? danny
we need to get off the computer and go for a surf at “Quicksilver’s,”, that is what we’ll be calling the break just haleiwa of Sunset ?.isn’t it? danny
[=Blue] Yikes, that’s a creepy thought! Kind of like famous stadiums getting Corporate names and sponsorship. I guess they can call it anything they like if they will Sponsor the North Shore to the tune of a couple of million dollars a year. I will have to suggest it to Hackman next time I see him! Ha!
Once the sponsorship goes through I will apply for the job of “Greetor” at all the good lefts, where for only $200,000.00 a year I will have special surfing privilages and will hand out free rash guards to welcome all the newcomers so as to help make all the best breaks become super crowded. Then we can all sell a bunch of surf stuff to them and become millionaires and retire! Ha!
You have been at your computer a little to long!!! :)…danny
Hi Bill
Maurice cole here,I have just read your BS version of the reverse vee,I dont even know where to start,as everything you say is a figment of your ego/imagination!Lets put up the history of the reverse back in the swaylocks forum,and let me respond to your fanciful version of History,so here’s the challenge…I can back up my story with fact & logic,yours is BB’s F I G J A M or F…K I’m Great Just Ask Me…to denigrate a fellow shaper/designer for your own gain says it all! Don’t worry next time i am in Hawaii I will make sure I come by your shop for an apology…I.E.if you are prepared to put your version of history up against mine,so either put up OR,shut up & apologise!
THanx
M
Hey this is great, is this really Maurice or a poser aka Our NZ friend RS.
Maurice, why don’t you give us some kind of specific information about BB. Something like his girlfriends name at the time you were there?, What kind of dog he had? or maybe something about the shop?, or maybe the address of the shop, or maybe the type & color of his vehicle?
We know BB is real, and a decent stand up guy too. So, it’s kind of hard to beleive your ranting from who doesn’t fillout his profile?
If you are the real deal, then if true let the fur fly!!
And if it’s the real Maurice Cole, welcome to Swaylocks!
-Jay
Welcome to marketing is all I can say on that one.
HI Jay
yes it is the real MC,and pretty bummed at my shaping designing integrity being questioned ,in the attempt to try and push themselves as some kind of overlooked design guru!the truth is that in 1988 I Bought a 7'10 and 8'6" off bill as I was trying to learnn to shape guns,which in the following 3 years I was helped by Eric Arakawa & Pat Rawson,and now have enduring friendships with the Arakawas & Rawsons,in the winter of 91/92 I was able to return the favour by shaping in Hawaii and helping tune their shortboards to the new concept,and start to use the same formula into hawain guns,and history shows that Tom Curren won the Haleiwa comp on the 7'2" stickerless yellow railed reverse vee,completely flat between the fins, and in the spirit that was shown to me by Pat & Eric,they were able to look take measurements etc what an exciting/creative/passionate/innovative & respectful surf/shape era this was.So bring it on Bill,I have had a lot of feedback from yesterdays letter,a lot from people who were there & lived that time period,wait untill I get to the MC/ Tom Curren design era,which will also debunk a lot of myth surrounding Tom & Al Merrick!!!
Any how as I am new to the forum,I intend to start contributing Ideas and history…CLARIFICATIONS??As for the last few years I have been shaping all of Ross Clarke-Jones tow bds with amazing results by using upto 1" concave,new original tail designs,all in Carbon,and am now using these hydronamic results into normal bds,which I have designed & tested for the last 2 years to come up with a new feel and direction for S/bds-to go faster than ever before and unable to spin em out…coming soon,phew I do ramble on ,but this seems like the place to do it thanx M
I can’t see that anything you have said factually contradicts Mr Barnfield. I also don’t care. I’ll bet no more than a handful of people here do. All I know is Mr. Barnfield has helped a lot of people here by offering shaping info freely, and with a well expressed, mild mannered, low ego approach.
On the face of it, you have angrily arrived at Sways promising to set some history straight. Again, I don’t care. But I am glad you have tuned in and really look forward to hearing your advice and ideas. You have probably forgotten more than I will know about shaping.
Welcome to Sways. I hope I can learn to be a better shaper from you when you turn to that topic.
I don’t mean this to be harsh, just level headed.
I wish more well known shapers participated in this forum. If they did, I think the overall story of shaping history we get here would be quite a bit different than what we hear from the few known shapers that do post here. I’m looking forward to hearing Maurice’s version to add to the story.
Aloha Maurice
Welcome to Swaylocks. Sounds like you have a lot to say! And, as you noted, this is probably as good as place as any to say it.
I am sorry that I seem to have ruffled your feathers. Hopefully you can set the record straight and clear things up.
For the record. I have no direct knowledge of how you came up with the Reverse Vee thing. I thought I made that pretty clear in my previous posts. Sadly after that winter of you hanging around my shop here in Haleiwa, I never saw you again. Friends usually don’t do that! So while I thought we had become friends, it soon appeared that I was just a rung on the ladder you were climbing to fame. Congratulations on that by the way. You did real good. Too bad I never had a chance to tell you in person!
I also never saw any Reverse Vee boards here in Hawaii until my friend brought one by. My presumption of what the design was or is, was based on that encounter. That board, as far as I know, was one of your “Official” models produced under license here in Hawaii. There was nothing revolutionary about it and as I noted previously it was virtually identical to the bottoms that I had commonly made for years. This was testified to by many others in my shop who could recognize such things. Maybe that board was an anomaly and not representative of your design. If that is the case I apologize for misreading what it was. I was going on it’s Official status. For the record, it wasn’t “completely flat between the fins” as you noted TC’s was. So maybe the Reverse Vee was an evolving design. Sort of a moving target, so to speak.
I am glad you had/have good relations with Eric and Pat and that you helped them become better shapers by showing them the secrets of what you were up to with your very special designs. I am sure they are very appreciative of your help and boost to their careers.
As to being an “overlooked design guru”. Well… I am still doing what I did before the scene discovered me, and fame and ensuing guys like you came nosing around looking for what ever it was you wanted, and I am still doing what I did after the fame passed and guys like you didn’t come nosing around anymore but rather chummed up with the new media celebrities. I was cool with my position before fame, during fame and after fame. And life is even better now then ever! The surf scene has a way of stereotyping people as their public persona evolves, but it may not be accurate at all. I poured out my heart, my home, my techniques, my shop, my ideas and virtually everything I had to share to my surfboard building mates. I held nothing back. Plus I probably trained half the guys making surfboards back then! Clearly, I question whether or not that was appreciated by some. Let alone even understood or acknowledged. I am not bothered so much that the surf scene might have “overlooked” these things. But I thought, apparently naively, that you guys were my friends! And when your friends overlook you that sucks! Of course, it would be nice if Industry History was told correctly and I welcome you contribution to it. At best there will always be some contention due to the potpourri of opinions and impressions but there is a history there non the less.
I celebrate your success Maurice and always have. I am glad you finally checked in to Swaylocks for some discussion. It of course, would have been nice to see you from time to time in the flesh as friends might, but that apparently that wasn’t what you were looking for in the relationship and that is fine. You weren’t the first one to show up when my fame shone bright and then evaporate quickly as it dimmed. That is one of the downsides to celebrity, which was painful to discover.
I am looking forward to hearing how your latest designs impact the surf scene and your contributions to Swaylocks.
Wish you well.
Hi greg
I appreciate your view,but the reason I have reacted this way is BB’s version is totally wrong and he has accused me with plagerism of shapes !fact :in 1998 BB made me a 7’10" and an 8’6" for sunset,they were good bds,3 years later the reverse vee was born out of a set of circumstances that was exstensively covered by dereck Hind & nick carroll,the actuall design has been misrepresented,as some kind of convex vee,in actual fact vee was taken out between the fins and put under the front foot the affect was to straighten the centre rocker and put the curve on the rail line ! the old theory was that by having a big vee between the fins made the bd looser,it did the opposite-I use 1"concaves now which still uses the same principle --curve on rails ,low curve centre stringer for speed,so in a straight line bd generates speed and when you go to turn ,you tip the bd over onto the curve in the rail.My initial reaction was an emotional one at basically being called a hoax,based on???I wonder how you would react if it was you being bad mouthed??
thanx
M
surfboards are so subjective just like history,its nice to get nostalgic now and then but that doesn’t make anything gospel.shapers are like flavor of the month and the computer has made many for better or worse?once saw a chris brock skip frye or was it cundith? shape when the egos were aside and they actually shaped a board together.then there was Dennis B a awesome shaper that when it came time for the pay friends forgot about the deals. those that had those magical boards remember yet forgotten.so what does it all mean be thankful that you are still pursuing your craft and post some of your works and keep your minds open to each other ideas and pass it on as the future is very uncertain and check out Todd Proctor the young man has the skills and the right mind for it.
Whatever happened to reverse vee?
I must admit in a pique of Curren envy I rang the MC factory in Sydney and ordered a 7’3" pintail reverse vee.
More than likely a machine shape that was finished by a ghost shaper but i have to say the damm thing went unreal.
Took it to Hawaii where it felt a little light and thin for there but for small/medium Backyards, east coast waves it went bloody good.
So from my limited POV the design went well.
What happened to them?
Hi BillMaurice cole here,I have just read your BS version of the reverse vee,I dont even know where to start,as everything you say is a figment of your ego/imagination!Lets put up the history of the reverse back in the swaylocks forum,and let me respond to your fanciful version of History,so here’s the challenge…I can back up my story with fact & logic,yours is BB’s F I G J A M or F…K I’m Great Just Ask Me…to denigrate a fellow shaper/designer for your own gain says it all! Don’t worry next time i am in Hawaii I will make sure I come by your shop for an apology…I.E.if you are prepared to put your version of history up against mine,so either put up OR,shut up & apologise!
THanx M</blockquote></div>Hey Maurice! I was the grumpy laminator at Mazzo. Remember me? I’ve got my own little shop on Oahu now and have a very nice mix of clients. Some star shapers, some guys that can barely shape, but who always pay and are very easy to deal with (wish I could say famous shapers always behave in this manner). Just wanted to say hi. I’ve got my own 2 cents about this thread but I’ll PM you. Pearls before swine, you know.
SNIP
then there was Dennis B a awesome shaper that when it came time for the pay friends forgot about the deals. those that had those magical boards remember yet forgotten.
Aloha privateer
Would that be Dennis Benadum that you are referring to? A great shaper!
SNIP
check out Todd Proctor the young man has the skills and the right mind for it.
Well said, Todd seems to be on a good roll
Biily,
Funny that Todd Procter’s name comes up in this thread as I am in his shop a lot (he uses a lot EPS) and I noticed that the bottoms on his guns looked really familiar. The kid really does nice work and is a very progressive thinker. Also keeps his work spaces super clean and organised. Kind of reminds me of someone else.
SS
Catri didn’t invent the spiral vee. Come on guys. That vee was being used by Bob Tomb in the late 60’s. He got it from the boards that came from HI namely Fletcher Sharp’s boards which were shaped by Ryan Dotson who I believe came up with that paticular way of making that particular vee. It was technically a cambered spiral vee which was a bit different from the spiral vee that McTavish introduced. Just about everyone was using that bottom shape in the late 60’s and could be seen on many of the popular boards of the day.
In about 1969 I saw my first blended vee (vee between the feet and basically flat off the tail) which is what Bill is refering to as a reverse vee. Paul Bordeli at G&S had shaped the board and he’d copied it from someone else and I can’t remember who. The blended vee was the bottom shape that was preminent through the 70’s.
At the end of the 70’s and early 80’s twin fins dominated and they were all deep vee’d with most using a blended but some, Lance Collins in particular, used vee off the tail. Richey Collins ripped on those. In larger surf single fins were still the call and they were generally blended vee’s and pretty much the same as the 70’s boards.
True reverse vee was popularized by Mr. Cole in the mid -late 80’s and featured the vee apex at 1/3rd from the nose of the board. Mr. Cole probably wasn’t the first to shape this particular design but he was the one who made it popular and for the sake of arguement was the first one I ever saw that shaped this particular design. The reverse vee lead to flatter tail shapes and allowed todays concave to come into popularity and in fact the first concaves actually also featured reverse vee in the forward section.
BTW, MTB was owned by Donny Mulhern not Catri.
What happened to reverse vee? Concaves!
Hi Greg
your comment"what happened to the reverse vee,concaves!" is absolutely spot on!The centralrocker line has less rocker than the rail line,which before was the opposite!I Have actually shaped bds with the concave between the fins nearly thru to the deck and these…go best especially in 20-40 surf!As this is my first time on swaylocks,I am not sure how I will be accepted as(ask Nev) I tell it how it is ,how it was,and hopefuuly how it willbe-only MC opinions, but if I it smells like BS,looks likeBS,I don’t have to eat it to verify it is BS,so my 1st thing on swaylocks was to find BB’s comment on myself and EEV’s(charlie walker actually came up with this name while I was having breckie with Pat R at Diamicos one morning) so I am In the process of correcting some misconceptions about myself and the EEV,say Hi to Nev when you seehim
thanx
M
BTW, the reverse vee was also picked up by the sailboard community about the same time and Fred Haywood was the first man to break 30 knots on one shaped by Jimmy Lewis.