Through your adivce, comments and criticism I was able to finish my first board last week - we dubbed it the Dinghy.
Today I picked up a fresh 6’8"RP fish blank to start on my next project, a Mini-Simmons.
Projected dimensions are as follows:
5’0"x22"x2.75"
Single concave
Twin glassed in marine-ply keels
S-deck
I’m not 100% sure what the traditional style of rails is for a Simmons, what have you guys used for rails on yours? Also, I’ve never shaped a step deck, what is the process to shape one in?
Do you want a step deck or an S deck, you confused me but that’s easy to do! I have always appreciated Simmons shapes and they are a bit more than just an outline… maybe look in the archives a bit to be sure of what you are trying to achieve with this shape. You can be inspired by the outline of a wide, short board…that’s not not really a simmons at all. Not trying to confuse.
no i know, i’ve done a lot of looking and have come up with my template. the board was cut out of the blank tonight and the bottom & deck skinned. i’m confused as to how to shape a step deck though, for a 5’0" where would you make the “step” from nose to deck? 12"? 14"?
i also haven’t shaped a single concave on the bottom before, any pointers? it’s going to be from the midpoint and extend through the tail.
Just a garage hack myself but this is how I do mine.
For the concave: Use masking tape or a light pencil mark to define the size and shape of the concave. Since you are pretty new to this I would put the whole concave inside the fins and make sure you have enough flat space for boxes if that's how you're going to go.
Use your planer to cut a trench down the center stringer to remove the stringer down to your desired depth. Be conservative on this please or things will definitely go badly. I would do multiple passes with your first full cut of the trench being 1/8 of an inch. Start the cut 1-2 inches inside your marks and lift off the board 2 inches from the tail. Again being conservative here. Now repeat this step except start 1-2 inches from the begining of the trench and lift off 1-2 inches from the end of the trench. If the planer Floats and won't make the last pass deeper you will have to lower the cutting head. Repeat this step until your deepest center of the trench is approx 1/2 an inch deep. You may need to go with less depth if the tail is already pretty thin! Now that the trench is done you can fair out from the trench's perimeter edges and shape with several different tools. In your case I didn't see a small curved sureform tool. They sell them at Lowe's and Home Depot cheap. When you see the tool you will know why I suggested using it. You can also take the sanding screen you have and make something that will work. Roll up an old clean rag, roll the sanding screen around it, this needs to be a couple inches in diameter. You now have a flexible sanding cylinder that you can attack the foam with. You may be able to bend your sanding pad from EZ. Don't know which ones you have. Some flex and some don't. Go slow and you will learn how to control the sanding screen or pad in a convex shape. Once you have shaped the concave into the remaining foam...clean up your stringer with the mini spoke shave. Good luck!
Sorry been trying to get to this all day. Been working on my shaping shack getting ready for my winter project my first HWS.
Anyway…I have never done a step deck but I have watched one being made. Since no one else is going to chime in I’ll relate what I know about it.
True up your outline and foil the board. Do not shape the rails yet.
Hold the board up to where you think your chest will contact the deck go forward from that point approx 4 inches. Now measure the distance to the nose. Using your shaping square mark the stringer. Put another mark 1 inch closer to the nose.
trace an outline of the step transition most shapers recommend a U shape with the open end of the U toward the tail.
Now you’re going to remove the volume from the area between the nose and the first mark. you can use the planer to remove most of the material but go slow and when you cross the stringer do so at an angle. Hitting it at a 90 degree angle could shatter it.
Once you have most of the material removed then go to your sureform and then screen to clean it up. Again the mini spoke shave to keep cleaning up the stringer.
Now go ahead and clean up the transition back to the second line. Sureform at first then sanding block and screen to make a nice smooth transition. You can keep the ridge of the transition very angular but your glasser will hate you!
Now shape the rails as normal and blend in the transition where it meets the rail line. It will blend pretty easy actually.
yeah i’ve been slowly chugging along with the board, been really busy at work so not much time to go on the forums.
template was cut out and brought true. ended up using a template from blendingcurves.com and modifying it by making it wider. planed the bottom and got it nice and flat. turned my attention to the top and got the blank down to the correct thickness - just under 2.75". Began working on the step deck and turning the rails, but i’m at a bit of a stalemate with this board. just last night i laid the original template back out and ended up cutting off the extra foam that was left from my modified template in the beginning.
it’s a bit of a struggle because the single fin i shaped turned out great, but this shape is way more complex, so its been posing quite a challenge.
what rails do simmons traditionally have? 50/50? hard down? tucked? how far in on the blank did you measure when cutting your 1st and second rail bands?
so it seems i was having some “shapers block,” so i stepped away from the board for a day or two and came back to it with a clear mind.
i tapered the deck towards the tail a bit and turned down the tail. i also worked on the rails more and keeping them even and true. the board is looking good, here’s a shot of what i got to today. this is looking towards the tail. i’ll be putting more work into it this weekend.
What kind of fins are you going to use? I'd roll with either FCS or Futures, so you have the quad option. It'll make the board way more versatile and user friendly. That wide Simmons tail and Keel set-up can get tricky when taking off backside on a steep wave. It feels like it wants to throw the front edge down and you'll end up sitting on your heels... Ever wonder why you rarely see footage of guys riding Simmons or Alaia's backside? or even better, make it asymetrical and you have the best of all worlds. keel on your toeside and quad on youe heelside.
dont agree witht the backside surfing, mine goes great frontside or backside, if your board is too short and too corky it’ll be hard to ride, especailly backside, if your fins arent giving you enough hold which you need on a mini, they’ll slip more on your backhand, so basically if the mini simmons isnt shaped at right length with good foam distribution and fins placed right, you may have trouble…finless is very tricky backside but can be done, needs many hours of practice though…
best bet for getting the shaping right would be to get a board there with you to refer to at different stages, another mini is obviously ideal, just look at it and slowly remove any foam that shouldnt be there…do one side, than repeat the process…just go with it, its only a board and its just for you to ride isnt it ? but you are right, the mini is a complexed little board and to get em to go great isnt easy,maybe just do a flat bottom and then if you are feeling up to it, do a concave theu the tail area…maybe ditch the step deck idea, just foil it all over nicely…roll the rails and keep it simpler… people think its easy and is often one of the first shapes people attempt…good luck with it…
thanks for the helpful words. i’m planning on doing a slight single concave through the tail but still have the step deck, it’s arleady been shaped in. the rails right now are 60/40 (kinda eggy). what rails would be best for the board? the board is coming along nicely, i just need to work on the nose a bit more before i finish sand and get it ready for glassing.
