Quad Fin Ideas

Mr. M - You sir kick ass!!! For all the work you’ve done; to just put it in a sweet pdf for any and all to have…

What more could we ask?!?

I’ll made my first quad a year ago, and, having had less than favorable experiences on twin fins, and having read and heard that “standard” quads were a lot like twins (“Tracky” to me.), I was reluctant, but after finding your sight, I went with what I called the “split the differences” placement for the back fins, half way between the front fins (standard tri-placement) and tail, and half way from the rail to the stringer. Only the 4 degrees cant built in to the RedX, and that’s off the slight V panel - I’ve found using 2 center fins is even better for me; which leaves just the V.

All in all - good on ya -

I’m gonna put more boxes in my latest gun, and I may just put four in my newest gun only…

Ok - sorry to ramble

Hey Larry - How 'bout a ride report contrasting and comparing the two quad set up on the one board…

Does this help?
[img_assist|nid=1030468|title=|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=344][img_assist|nid=1030469|title=|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=361][img_assist|nid=1030470|title=|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=344]

Yeah Slashzilla thats the one…

THAT I’d like to try…

Josh

Mr. McKee - Please correct me if I’m wrong, but from my interpretation of of the “FIN DIRECTION DATA IN DETAILED FORM” from the “2009 February UPDATE” on your web site, it seems like the “toe in” on the rear fins is more than the front fins.

For example: For a 12" wide tail the front fins should be toed 1-7/16" off the stringer at the nose, and the rear fins should be toed 1/4" of the stringer at the nose.

This seems to go counter to what I’d intuit, and what I’ve done with the one quad I made - all off the nose.

My thoughts are, with your set up, the front toe would lead to more speed, less tight turns, but the relatively “more” toe in the rears would enhance tighter turns of the rear fins.

Would you please share how your toe in rides? Especially if you’ve done toes closer to what I did.

Ps - What’s your take on cant? I didn’t find that on your web site.

Thanks again for your sharing -

This might help for cant and toe

http://www.mckeesurf.com/brucemckee/fingraphic.htm

6 and 2.5

1 less for guns

Thanks Claude for revealing the diagram!

Interesting, those trying to connect my positioning as being like a ‘Thruster’ design.

Some will find my ‘Quattro Classics’ link interesting for the rail proximity of the fins on some boards.

http://www.mckeesurf.com/brucemckee/exotic_fin_photos.htm

I also have some interesting positions in the collages in ‘Mission Quattro’.

Unfortunately I should have been more of a photo snapper as the evidence is incomplete.

What the aim of my set-up really is, it’s a positioning that tries to combine the best of all. Twins, old quads, Thrusters and I’ve even had some set-ups that felt more ‘single-fin’ ish than anything else… a la T Curren J-Bay set up.

The positioning is just …where I’m at now… after taking into account, all the responses of people testing boards along the way, plus my own. From ten foot guns in Hawaiian surf to 5 foot something fish type boards in slop, long-boards of all types, you name it… I still have more tweaks to the formula that I personally do, but I’m not here to dictate.

‘Proven design’ is an interesting phrase in relation to the boards with the ‘old school’ setups I’m seeing. They were dabbled with in the past but mostly brushed aside. They can and do work, and so can a zillion other mixes if the ingredients are combined right. It just depends, on what kind of rider you want to be happy and for what kind of wave.

As far as I’m concerned, only by testing out a design will it be ‘proven’.

Only after trying a multitude of different ‘proven’ designs do you realize that it’s pretty limitless… In the end it’s a case of whittleing down the negatives… and that folks, is what has been for me, ‘Mission Quattro’.

The gif attached is borrowed from a past post. It shows well the concept of fin direction, though I would have the focus point further forward as opposed to this one presented here.

Cheers. McKee.

I think the focus point forward (less toe-in) gives that “dragless” feeling down the line I described earlier. I’ve tried the “all four fins point to the nose” setup, and like focus point forward better, at least on boards for bigger waves.

Hi NuclearFishin, Great job on fins. Glade to see ProBox has made your surfing experience a fun one out of the water has well has in the water. Mahalo,Larry

[quote=“$1”]

[img_assist|nid=1030452|title=quad fin|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=346]I got these Scimitar fins from Brian @ GreenLight Surf Supply and they have blown my mind every time I have taken it out. Works best with the back fins at 0% cant.

Thanks,

[

/quote]

Hi lavarat, Nice work on your board and Happy to see the positive experience. Mahalo,Larry

www.ProBox-Larry.Blogspot.com

Hi gus, Those fins are from Webber, These fins below are from me.Mahalo,Larry www.ProBox-Larry.Blogspot.com



TaylorO, I would be glade to give you a ride report, but it will have to wait till Monday. Will be gone till then and I what to explain with some pics the difference between set-up which will take alittle time. Thanks for asking and looking forward to sharing. Mahalo,Larry

BCKyle, Just wanted to share Spit Quads done and Barry Vandenmueler’s board done also. Mahalo,Larry

www.ProBox-Larry.Blogspot.com


Thanks all -

McKee - The picture sets me straight…

NJ - Perfect input for my consideration… puttin’ two more fin boxes on my “heavy gun” as a test for biggerish waves

PB Larry - Looking forward to it… Considering a five fin “edge”/“Griffin” type thing, and would like more input on the rear fins being on the edge, although - I understand the 5th fin in the middle makes a big difference too…

Anyone care to share there experiences on the five fin edge v. the four fin edge. Especially - have any of you ridden your five fin and then ridden it as a quad w/the only difference being the removal of the center fin? That would be the perfect feedback for me…

Think of it as being like a five wheeled truck that has your heavy foot as a load, located at position X. The truck is nicely balanced up, but now you decide to remove the rear wheel. The result in turns at speed is going to be oversteer and an unstable vehicle. This though will also depend on the size difference of that rear wheel and it’s proportion of hold in relation to the other four.

With a surfboard, the rear fin also acted a redirectional device due to the extra factor of the rear side fin’s toe-in, that also has a lateral steering effect. So apart from giving more hold and stability, the zero toed-in rear tail fin, also helped to straighten the board back up between turns.

If you had to choose between both the 4 & 5 but wanted something inbetween, to get the get the combined qualities of both the 5 and the 4, you would reposition the 2 rear side fins somewhere in the middle of both systems… but… if choosing not to move any fin placement… you could also, in exchange, increase rear side fin area, reduce front fin area, try to reduce toe-in of rear fins… … etc etc…etc big wheels on the back, little wheels on the front, check wheel allignment, tyre pressure…blah blah.

With the first ever quad I made, which suffered from over-steer, I ended up sticking a little stablizer fin on the back = 5.

Later, repositioning the cluster of 4 fixed that.

Cheers. B

Nice, those look fantastic finished! Thanks for the update on those… also, love those big twins you posted up higher; are those a standard twin model, one of the two I saw on the probox site? (I saw the PB600 and the PB525) Those grey ones look much more along the vein of the tall flexy twin than those on the site…

Larry,
trabajo del final de Niza en las aletas. ¿También, cómo usted ve esas aletas gemelas gigantes el ayudar en ese pequeño Webber? Hilo de rosca interesante del cuadrángulo.

Those are some good lookin fins nuclearfishin. I really like that you foiled em thicker than the tabs… the way it should be done imo.

Thanks B -

It reads like the 5 fin “edge” finned set up would be similar to the 4 fin “McKee” type set up. Is this what you are saying?

Do you, or anyone else who’ve tried a “Griffin” type set up V. a “McKee” type set up, have an experiences to share about the difference between the characteristics of a “Griffin” 4/5 fins V. a"McKee" type…

The reason I ask, is I’m considering a board with both set ups, but if “two or more witnesses” confess that the set ups are similar, save you have one less box to install… then maybe I’ll shine…

It seems you’d get more lift w/the edge fins… although, they are smaller, so…

A bit off topic

http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1025803