Rail Ding Help

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47055595@N07/4556877226/?eOrig=4556868580

I am working on a friend’s super expensive 10’6 Stewart Clydesdale that fell off of his rack on onto the hood of his Desoto - Needless to say it’s a mess. I am wondering which way to go to repair the damage on the rail. Both dings are soft - the one on the deck and the one on the rail. Do I grind out 6" of glass from between the 2 dings and repair it that way? Or do I repair each ding individually and try not to get into the color on the deck delam?

dinger

Which way would you guys go on this one? 

Thanks in advance for the help.

Sam

The Clydesdale fell onto the Desoto.

I'd be more worried about the Desoto.....

kinda hard to tell from those pics.  My first thought would be to sand into the glass, not through the glass, but just enough to where you could apply some resin that would soak into the fabric of the glass.  Then I would put a small piece of glass (about an eighth to a quarter inch bigger than the ding all around) over that while it was still wet.  Let it dry, sand, feather the edges, and more resin.  Until you could sand and polish the whole thing out to blend.

that's just my best guess based on what I can tell from the photos.  It sure doesn't look like you need to grind out 6" of glass, but maybe there's something there I can't see?

BTW, your buddy needs to decide if this is a wall hanger, or a functional waverider.  If the latter, cost aside, this is just the first and probably the least of many dings to come.  If the former, patch it, polish it, and hang it.

I can only see a shatter-type of ding but no compression of foam. Id just soak some UV resin in and it'd cure by the time you walk down to the beach.

Any closer pics ?

Repair each ding separately. If the glass is shattered, and not fractured through and through, sand it down to the weave, lay a small patch over it, fair, hotcoat, sand and polish. If it’s fractured, which it does not look like it is from the pic, remove any loose glass and foam, fill if needed, then lay down two patches, one exactly the same size and shape as the ding, and another a bit bigger. Fair, hotcoat, sand and polish. Don’t worry about a perfectly smooth repair on the deck. The structure is more important.

Hi Sam,

Let's see if we can get you squared away here

[quote="$1"]

I am working on a friend's super expensive 10'6 Stewart Clydesdale that fell off of his rack on onto the hood of his Desoto - Needless to say it's a mess. I am wondering which way to go to repair the damage on the rail. Both dings are soft - the one on the deck and the one on the rail. Do I grind out 6" of glass from between the 2 dings and repair it that way? Or do I repair each ding individually and try not to get into the color on the deck delam?

Which way would you guys go on this one? 

Thanks in advance for the help.

Sam

[/quote]

Ahmmmm- first off, I think Buddy there needs better racks over said DeSoto. And, Stewarts were never known for particularly good glassing. In any event....

A few ding repair rules to live by:

Never grind or cut or rout out anything that you don't absolutely have to. You wind up inadvertently grinding into the foam most of the time, which needs filler, which turns into a freakin' nightmare. When cutting out glass willy-nilly, a typical newbie error, you have a spot you gotta fix and fill to get to the original level, which is damned tricky to get right and a lot of extra work. I won't even start on the use of routers in ding repair -  suffice it to say that you don't want to. Overall, look, you're not a heart surgeon, don't slice and dice and puree- 90% of the time you don't have to.

Next, never mess with color if you don't absolutely have to. With a very few rare exceptions, which were boards made way back using plain single stock pigment for a color,  you never match it right.

Always try to salvage as much of the original stuff as possible. It's easier, it doesn't need blending in, it looks better.

Now, getting down to cases here-

Sand gently with coarse (~80 grit) sandpaper, by hand, until you have the cracked and loose resin off it. Brush on some thinned sanding resin, thinned with acetone or (prefereably) styrene so it'll penetrate the cloth weave you see. Catalyse lightly, so you have a good pot life/working time and can work it in well - I have been known to cut down the bristles of a chip brush with scissors so the brush is stiffer and better able to work the resin into the existing cloth.

Note that I say 'sanding by hand' - if you're asking these questions, I'm betting you're not, say, a professional surfboard sander, which is the skill level you'd need to have to attack this with a full on grinder. If you are really good with a 5 or 6 inch random orbital sander with a soft pad , you could give it a shot, but that's also kinda dangerous if you don't concetrate - hand sanding is safer with far less chance of screwing it up, and DON'T USE A SANDING BLOCK!! Using a sanding block, well, look, the rail is round and the block is flat - saw an idiot using a sanding block on rail repairs. Said idiot sanded through his repairs and all the way to foam several times - refused to listen or learn.

Anyways - you have your resin saturating the old cloth such that the weave look has gone away and the damaged area is now nice and clear, the crunch went away. Good, hand sand lightly, say with 220 grit. Lay a patch of 4 or 6 oz cloth over, wet it out with a brush and sanding resin, use the minimum of resin, just enough to wet it out.

Sand again, by hand. Get it smooth, then go at it with a clean, new white rag and some acetone, to get the dust off it. Follow that with a gloss coat of sanding resin, thinned a little so it flows better, just flow on enough so it's smooth, without excessive brushing. Before doing that, go at your brush with a comb, get the loose bristles out of it - one of those will drive you slightly crazy. Tape around the area to be glossed , remove the tape when the resin just starts to go off, the edges can 'collapse' a little that way. Sometimes that's good enough so you don't need to do any more.

If you're lucky, it won't need sanding or polishing. If so, have a beer and pat yourself on the back. If it does, well, go at the edges of it with wet sandpaper and lots of water, start with 220, follow with 400, wash it down, give it some polish and a lot of elbow grease.

Then, have two beers and relax. You've earned it

It's kind of a long and involved process, yes. That's why ding guys get paid what they do, the good ones.

Or even the so-so guys, like...

doc....

Not that I can really add anything but…I always cover my repairs with wax paper until they kick.

[quote="$1"]

Not that I can really add anything but...I always cover my repairs with wax paper until they kick.

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Actually - you're adding something quite useful. That can do several good things:

Makes a nice smooth surface, less sanding and sometimes no sanding. Which is a Good Thing.

You can get away with laminating resin for intermediate repair stuff like glassing. Sanding resin contains wax to act as a barrier layer between resin and air so that the resin will harden/cure enough to sand. But that wax can compromise the bond unless you get rid of it. Not that the resin somehow takes on wax from the wax paper, instead the wax paper shields the resin from air and it's all good, best of both worlds.

Thanks

doc...

Gracias Doctor, have diagnosis, will travel.

I would hardly call this a “disaster”.

 

 

Why does your friend ride a 10’6"? Is he morbidly obese?

get this dvd. it answers every ding repair question you ever wanter to know!

http://www.digitalwunderland.com/index.php?page=thedingshop

 

30 bucks for a ‘how to’ video on ding repair?  Ridiculous!

LOL yes Sammy - He’s a large man and this is his version of a capable surfboard. 

 

Thanks so much everybody - I really appreciate it. I will get to it!

Sammy A,  I had to laugh at your response. I caught the 10’6" also and thought hmmmm. But a big guy riding that is the same as all the guys weighing 150lbs riding 9’0"s. It’s cheating in a way, anything will float them, but they choose a barge for wave count. Seems that’s all it’s about nowadays. “I got ALL the waves”! “I’m the biggest D%^& in the water”!

 

no offense to Stuck"s buddy.

Oh and Sammy - This was the one ding I had questions on - the disasters happened all over the board, and I think I repaired those sufficiently. I think the board fell off and bounced around like a fiberglass super ball.

I really appreciate the advice too Doc, I did make that mistake elsewhere on the board of removing the glass down to the foam, and after trying to make it right, will NEVER DO IT AGAIN!! 

You guys are amazing!

 

Well, I happen to weigh 150 and my “long” board is an 8’0". But, back when all boards were essentially between 9 and 10 feet, the recommended length for 150lb guys was about 9’6". A 10’6" would be for a person near 300 lbs.

From 1963 to 1968, I fluctuated from 9’2 up to 9’8. Got an 8’4" in '68. Dropped to a 6’9" by '69.

Sammy, I think we all have (or want) several boards for the range of conditions. Obviously it makes sense at times to have a longer board or even for the fun of it but , I think you know the type I’m talking about. It’s the guys who NEVER deviate from the log strictly to get “all he waves”. If they want to improve their surfing the have got to try other lengths and shapes especially when the surf gets good and challenging. I started with: 8’8" and go up to 10’0" and back down to an 8’3" down railed speed monster. I mostly like a hull or egg because I can’t ride a 6’0". All it is…is fun, as long as we take turns! I’m sub 300lbs but over 240lbs.

 

ps. The REAL question is…Who still drives a DeSoto??? Did the board hit one of the tail fins??(on the car) Maybe it was Gidg and Moondoggie.

[quote="$1"]   

ps. The REAL question is...Who still drives a DeSoto??? Did the board hit one of the tail fins??(on the car) Maybe it was Gidg and Moondoggie.

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Get yours today.....

doc....

tblank - It’s his hot rod project, and it was just the hood that was in the garage. You know, one of those kinda projects where there are pieces of it strewn about every horizontal surface in the garage! 

 

Doc, that’s only $38k for that sweet surf mobile - that’s not too bad!

Can I tell 'em you sent me Doc? How 'bout a buddy deal.