Seen a Griffin with a bit of an edge on the bottom of the rail, running the length of the board. Pros and cons of this ?
The full edged board I had way back in the day (an MR twinnie) got up on plane fast and rarely dug rail. There’s much more to it than that (rocker and bottom contours, along with rail shape and volume, have a huge impact) but that was my impression.
i like them a lot on my last 2 boards... i only feel pros, no cons...
don't see myself going back to the "standard" hard edge in the rear fading to round in the front ever.
Chrisp - can you say more about the pros ? thanks.
My 9’6" x 22.5" x 3.25" single fin pintail with sharp rails well forward is one of the fastest longboards I’ve ridden and it carves turns very well. Maybe it’s the tail, bottom contour, fin, wave shape instead of the rails???, but I’m very happy in the fast, powerful waves near home. I think that for a thicker, slower wave this board might be too fast and a bit squirrelly. It noserides if you have good speed, but the theory is that sharp rails cause water to release which decreases hold for noseriding.
While I think I’ve perfected the tool for my abilities, size, and the typical waves at my home break, someone else might wouldn’t like my board at all.
So my opinion is that you should think about what will work best for the situation you’re shaping for (it’s sometimes a question of tradeoffs when it comes to details), and go for it!
well, the best evidence (in my mind) for the pros was on a board that i'd surfed exclusively for about 2 years. then, i went back and added a sharp tucked edge nose to tail...
-the board felt faster through turns.
-it felt less sticky... kinda funny because i didn't think the board was "sticky" before but afterwards, it felt less sticky...
-it would cycle through pumps faster with more squirt from pumps
there may be other benefits from this type of rail but these are the things that i felt.
carrying my rail edges further forward on my own boards of late with good feedback, always like this on my own boards and feel no negatives, as long as it is tucked nicely and used with right rocker and on right style of board for waves and surfing intended....
did have a board glassed many years ago that I thought was finished but rails hadnt been totally finished, so it had a hard edge right the way down, ( grommet enthusiasm ) but that board went unreal, sometimes accidents can be eye opening....
bump
chris, what rocker and bottom did those boards have? i just added a sharper rail up to the center to a flat bottom with accelerated medium rocker to see what exactly changes but didn’t ride it yet. the board felt a bit tracky.
salu2
uzzi
They work great here in Hawaii. Have them on quite a few boards. All inspired from a 6’ 5-fin Griffin Fish I have. Griffin also likes to keep the rail diameter smaller, so he has a lot of crowning on the deck on the thicker boards. The edge allows water to run off the rail and not around the rail.
My 5-fin fish is fast and maneuverable and no issues of it being sticky or tracking. I have not found any negatives on boards with the edge all the way up.
My brother has at least a half dozen of Griffin’s boards and they all have this type of rail.
The best Longboard I've ever had was made by Michael Cundith, and it had a bit of edge the length of the rail . It also had a fairly hard edge the first 18" of the nose which in theory 'is bad', but in practise worked fantastic. Like steering a car where you make adjustments all the time and not just turning the wheel for corners, same with standing on the nose. I've also ridden one of John Peck's boards ,and it had a down rail type nose as well.
hey Uzzi,
both boards are made from the same Marko blank. i'd have to measure the rocker but, it's low. i'm guessing somewhere around 4 1/4" nose and 2" tail...
- board A is 6'0" x 20" x 2 1/4" from memory... i'ts my first board. it has a deep single concave that goes to flat at about 6" from the tail. thumbtail kinda pumpkin seed shape. it started life as a quad with a McKee-ish fin placement with kinda standard rails ie. the rails started out sharp in the tail fading to round in the middle and up to the nose... i experimented a lot with this board. i added 2 more boxes to try a "rail" quad setup which worked really well for me. then, i added the tucked edge nose to tail and i liked that too... after adding the edge, the board just seemed to do everything better. the best way i can describe it is "less sticky"... seemed to go faster through turns, easier release off the top, ...
- board B has a flat bottom nose to tail. i modeled the template off of this board: http://www.mairsurfboards.com/pages/gallery.html (the woodwind at the bottom of the page). it has the tucked edge nose to tail with a 5 fin Griffin-ish fin placement. i left the foil kinda full... not 80's full, more like early 90's full... medium rails... this board goes better for me than any other board i've had in the last few years...
i've always ridden the "standard" hard edge in the tail, to tucked above the fins, to round above that rails and have only recently tried the tucked nose to tail rails but, i don't see myself going back. i'm pretty sold on the sharp tucked edge nose to tail...
BTW, i saved a copy of that pic that you posted of your bamboo decked bonzer with the green rails... that thing is sweet!
nice to hear about your 2 boards - one with deep single vs. flat. i’ve only built one board but when doing the rails, i started to think of my favorite thruster shaped by maurice cole - the metro with deep single to vee with hard edges to the nose. i only made the edge halfway up but would like to extend the edge throughout on my next boards. been thinking about what to do about bottom contours for them as well. i had a flat bottom griffin 5-fin modfish and between that and the deep single cole, i preferred the cole. hard to say whether it was the bottom contours or just the whole package.
Chris, Thanks for the info. G. Griffin somewhere said that the round edges where incorporated to counter the lift from concaves and from what i read his bottoms are pretty much flat. the forecast looks good, i´ll give some feedback.
so many combinations that work…the more i know…
glad to hear that you liked the boo B5 it works very good
salu2
uzzi
Here’s my “con.” I didn’t like the feel of the mid/front of the board trying to “push” out of the face under my front foot. I like round rails under my front foot - I feel like it gives me down the line pocket control with my front foot. That being written, maybe I’ll try it again some day. I’m still on a quest for a “1 board quiver,” -save my desire for a big gun too.
hey Taylor, that is a con...
what are the dims on the board?
how big were the radius of your rails at the midpoint?
was your edge 90* hard or tucked hard?
i know that's a lot of questions... i'm just trying to figure this stuff out
That board, a tri, is 8’x18.5"x2.25" 12"nose/tail. Tucked hard edged rails - they’re about 70/30 - thickest point apex from the bottom @ 1/2".
I had 90 degree edges on the tail of the Sally up to @ 24" and the board liked to “snap” but not carve - So I took off about 4" of the hard edge and wala… It carved when I wanted, and still snapped if I wanted. Now that it’s a quad, it’s less prone to snap (I think it has to do with the lack of opposition between the center and side fins), and I’m thinking about putting the edge back on to see what happens…
I personally am a fan of sharp edges in smaller surf because I feel like they release water a whole lot quicker, in turn making the board fast and responsive. However, on logs I like a soft 50/50 rail.
In larger surf I like a softer edge/down rail, because it feels solid in steep powerful surf. It also feels like they bite into the wave face on critical turns.
hi chris, good forecast but shitty banks…i had a go on the stick but the conditions weren´t so good. 1 impression, the board doesn´t feel draggy anymore and seems to be looser but also less forgiving, but i would like to try again in better conditions.
salu2
uzzi
I hear ya on a one board quiver… I think its highly possible! I’m in the worx of doin same thing. I want my board to a. Float me properly b. To be responsive to turns etc… C. To be fast enough, but a controlled fast…
I’m workin up my planshape with my wide-point a bit forward…not too much! And I read I can counter the drivey stiffness speed by adding vee more towards the center… In other words, carve in vee panel from back to about wide-point. Not my idea something I heard a shaper did with good results. Makes sense though! If the boards gonna be fast and drivey, and let’s say you want to come barreling around in ur roundhouse cutback, and who knows!? You may end up smacking the lip and coming back for more… I’ve done this- like you and many have while in the mode…its not like we so much think about it-it just happens as the opportnities present themselves. That said I tried to catch air once, bit only managed to pop my tail out of the wave about a foot and splashed back in andkept going… Part of the prob was, it was way before airs became popular and I was riding too big of a Board I think? :/?
Perhaps I’ll try again!? I think it would be surreal to fly 10 feet out of the wave and land and keep going… A good old guy can dream, right? LOL
Maybe I should shape a board designed for airs! Any dimensions I could work off? Send away! I can pick up a 5’8" blank and carve one out!!!