ok ive been going over the information in the posts re: skip frye style fish. this is what i might do, i ve been working on a template length - 6’0’ nose - 16.5’ tail - 16 with 2.5 inch deep swallow tail width - 21 i was thinking i might just go a thruster setup rather than a twin, although im not sure how a 16’ wide tail will go with 3 fins rather than 2 larger twinny fins. how hard can you push a board with a 16’ wide tail. the widest ive ever made one is 15 so i dont want to be sliding around too much.
I use to make that old lis fish style in my early days when all my knee riding buds rode them… I think because of the design being so wide and short stay with twin keel fins. I mean think about the lay out of a tri on 16" wide tail?? Where would you place your fins?? How far up… How far in… would you toe them to the nose? That’s a ton of toe… Would you place them up 11" up from the tail?? Think about how hard it would be to pump the board rail to rail with a 16"tail that’s wide for a 6’0. Just some things to think about. Twin or Twinzer 4fin you need fin on the rail if you plan to draw any line. A small tri set up just don’t fit a tail that wide… I build fish type boards but i never go that wide on such a short board. Most of my fish or what i call Nuggets start say 5’9 x 18 1/2 or 6’0 x 18 3/4 and 6’2 x 19 1/4 so on… Width is over rated to much. when i see wide short fish i try and understand but to me they surf so F$%$$$^% flat you can’t square off with that kind of outline. Stick with twins that’s what there design for. if you want tri then think about cut some of the fat out of your outline… Paul Jensen gave me a old copy of Surfboard Design and construction writen by James Kinstle and it has all the design info on the 5’5" Steve Lis fish i would like to make one right down to the 9" base keel fins… That’s my thoughts>>> ok ive been going over the information in the posts re: skip frye style > fish. this is what i might do, i ve been working on a template>>> length - 6’0’>>> nose - 16.5’>>> tail - 16 with 2.5 inch deep swallow tail>>> width - 21>>> i was thinking i might just go a thruster setup rather than a twin, > although im not sure how a 16’ wide tail will go with 3 fins rather than 2 > larger twinny fins.>>> how hard can you push a board with a 16’ wide tail. the widest ive ever > made one is 15 so i dont want to be sliding around too much.
Thanks rob i like the sound of the 4 fin twinzer rather than a twin. ive always just found that standard twin fins seem to lack a bit of drive. would the 4 fin provide a bit of extra drive.>>> I use to make that old lis fish style in my early days when all my knee > riding buds rode them… I think because of the design being so wide and > short stay with twin keel fins. I mean think about the lay out of a tri on > 16" wide tail?? Where would you place your fins?? How far up… How > far in… would you toe them to the nose? That’s a ton of toe… Would you > place them up 11" up from the tail?? Think about how hard it would be > to pump the board rail to rail with a 16"tail that’s wide for a 6’0.>>> Just some things to think about.>>> Twin or Twinzer 4fin you need fin on the rail if you plan to draw any > line. A small tri set up just don’t fit a tail that wide…>>> I build fish type boards but i never go that wide on such a short board. > Most of my fish or what i call Nuggets start say 5’9 x 18 1/2 or 6’0 x 18 > 3/4 and 6’2 x 19 1/4 so on… Width is over rated to much. when i see wide > short fish i try and understand but to me they surf so F$%$$$^% flat you > can’t square off with that kind of outline.>>> Stick with twins that’s what there design for. if you want tri then think > about cut some of the fat out of your outline…>>> Paul Jensen gave me a old copy of Surfboard Design and construction writen > by James Kinstle and it has all the design info on the 5’5" Steve Lis > fish i would like to make one right down to the 9" base keel fins…>>> That’s my thoughts
I use to make that old lis fish style in my early days when all my knee > riding buds rode them… I think because of the design being so wide and > short stay with twin keel fins. I mean think about the lay out of a tri on > 16" wide tail?? Where would you place your fins?? How far up… How > far in… would you toe them to the nose? That’s a ton of toe… Would you > place them up 11" up from the tail?? Think about how hard it would be > to pump the board rail to rail with a 16"tail that’s wide for a 6’0.>>> Just some things to think about.>>> Twin or Twinzer 4fin you need fin on the rail if you plan to draw any > line. A small tri set up just don’t fit a tail that wide…>>> I build fish type boards but i never go that wide on such a short board. > Most of my fish or what i call Nuggets start say 5’9 x 18 1/2 or 6’0 x 18 > 3/4 and 6’2 x 19 1/4 so on… Width is over rated to much. when i see wide > short fish i try and understand but to me they surf so F$%$$$^% flat you > can’t square off with that kind of outline.>>> Stick with twins that’s what there design for. if you want tri then think > about cut some of the fat out of your outline…>>> Paul Jensen gave me a old copy of Surfboard Design and construction writen > by James Kinstle and it has all the design info on the 5’5" Steve Lis > fish i would like to make one right down to the 9" base keel fins…>>> That’s my thoughts Rob, How do you like that book? I remember seeing it in the mags back in the seventies and was wondering if it had any good information on design, technique, etc I have a couple of modern fishes, three finners, that work great. Slightly narrower than the Lis fish, like 20 and half inches wide, 16 nose, with like almost 15" tails. Been using the Tom Carroll black/red carbon fin up front with a smaller GX trailer. I have a set of Spitzerchargers that I need to put on. Anyways… Thanks, FD
Thanks rob i like the sound of the 4 fin twinzer rather than a twin. ive > always just found that standard twin fins seem to lack a bit of drive. > would the 4 fin provide a bit of extra drive. Fish the twinzer may be the way to add a little bit better drive and at the same time better control thru turns… Good Luck
Foamdust it is as a good a book as ther is when it comes to design. Times and Design have changed but the basics will always stay the same. It’s a book that every builder should have. As in Swaylock forums i now look at this book for answers when i’m designing something new… I’ve been building 70’s retro boards so it’s the book with age old answers…>>> Rob,>>> How do you like that book? I remember seeing it in the mags back in the > seventies and was wondering if it had any good information on design, > technique, etc>>> I have a couple of modern fishes, three finners, that work great. Slightly > narrower than the Lis fish, like 20 and half inches wide, 16 nose, with > like almost 15" tails. Been using the Tom Carroll black/red carbon > fin up front with a smaller GX trailer. I have a set of Spitzerchargers > that I need to put on. Anyways…>>> Thanks,>>> FD
Foamdust it is as a good a book as ther is when it comes to design. Times > and Design have changed but the basics will always stay the same. It’s a > book that every builder should have. As in Swaylock forums i now look at > this book for answers when i’m designing something new… I’ve been > building 70’s retro boards so it’s the book with age old answers… …I was with Rick MacHale,and Jim when they put that book together,even went surfing with Jim,and rick several times,sometimes with others in the sessions.Boy,talk about heated debates,makes anything here pale in comparison. …I never bought a copy of the book,Tom Sterne was nice enough to make me a copy.Herb
…I was with Rick MacHale,and Jim when they put that book > together,even went surfing with Jim,and rick several times,sometimes with > others in the sessions.Boy,talk about heated debates,makes anything here > pale in comparison.>>> …I never bought a copy of the book,Tom Sterne was nice enough to > make me a copy.Herb I looked up online and found it $80 bucks??? I think i may know where it could be had for half that price??? Worth any amount…
I looked up online and found it $80 bucks??? I think i may know where > it could be had for half that price??? Worth any amount… I’d be interested in getting a copy if anyone knows where I could get one. Thanks, FD
I’d be interested in getting a copy if anyone knows where I could get one.>>> Thanks,>>> FD …I could probably make copies of my copy,I not sure if or how legible it will be.Herb.
how would one of those wide short fish boards work anyway, i think they would spin out and slide alot. do they have drive in mushy waves or do they have to be used in point surf to work well.
…I could probably make copies of my copy,I not sure if or how > legible it will be.Herb. I don’t know about copy right laws when it come to something a bunch of surfers wrote but I have a good copy… Is James still around??
how would one of those wide short fish boards work anyway, i think they > would spin out and slide alot. do they have drive in mushy waves or do > they have to be used in point surf to work well. They do they just don’t square off the bottom or the top without sliding a bit. In mushy waves they rock skate all over the place. They do tube ride good to. Stand up surfing they tend to feel flat and a little out of control when the waves get bigger. But i’ve seen Kneeriders “Rip” on them in big waves… I think a low center of gravity helps when riding such a flat wide board… Great fun in small surf… A proven design for over 30 years…
I believe he is a noted scientist with with PHd. to his name. Oddly enough, that book started out a part of a masters project (remember all of the wave/board dynamics in the first chapter?). I’d like to contact him and see what he thinks about re-releasing the manuscript, selling it or donating it to Swaylock’s. It was the first reference material I had before Swaylock’s came online and I still refer to it for different things. Take a look at the lineup of shapers and designers in that one little paperback…kind of impressive to get such an ecclectic group at such a young age. Half of them are still around shaping. Tom S. > I don’t know about copy right laws when it come to something a bunch of > surfers wrote but I have a good copy…>>> Is James still around??
who makes suitable fins for fish ie: large twin fins what about having a small trailing centre fin that might stop sliding
who makes suitable fins for fish ie: large twin fins>>> what about having a small trailing centre fin that might stop sliding …either Rainbow fins,or TrueAmes…dump the trailer ,it’s a fish.(I can’t believe I just typed that).Herb
who makes suitable fins for fish ie: large twin fins>>> what about having a small trailing centre fin that might stop sliding Maybe try contacting Mitch’s Surf Shop in LA Jolla and ask about Larry Gephardt’s fish twin fins.
who makes suitable fins for fish ie: large twin fins>>> what about having a small trailing centre fin that might stop sliding I really don’t know… if i was to build Lis twin i would lay up my own fin pannel. You really don’t want to go with Future or FCS. The Lis style fish was designed for Keel fins 9" base x 5" tall… If i was to build a Lis Fish i would stick to the real thing…
I really don’t know… if i was to build Lis twin i would lay up my own fin > pannel. You really don’t want to go with Future or FCS. The Lis style fish > was designed for Keel fins 9" base x 5" tall… If i was to > build a Lis Fish i would stick to the real thing… Clyde Beatty has a custom fiberglass fin for his fish that he uses with Red X.
First,IMO, 9 inch base is a little much. If you were knee riding it would be ok. Plus or minus 8 inches for me seems to work well. Also, with that much base it’s a good idea to make the fins thicker with marine plywood, Fins too thin with these bases will cavitate. aloha and Happy Holidays!!! Tom