I know there’s a few here who would geek out on this as much as I did. Especially with the America’s Cup running, it’s cool to see tech that is at the bleeding edge. Makes you realize how laughably outdated most surfboard construction techniques are.
That account is run by Innegra, who I just realized is based out of Greenville, SC which isn’t too far from me and I know a few aerospace guys down there. Also where the BMW factory is, who are producing lots of carbon parts for their cars. Interesting where these little pockets of tech aggregate due to industry and knowledge.
…hello Lawless, in my opinion, you and many are a bit confused about what is outdated and for what reason.
First, there are no any new material, only a few “plastic” fiber fabrics.
Outdated is a battery in a vehicle; that piece of crap is an outdated thing from XIX century but nothing new to change that.
Outdated could be the wheel; but is not because is a perfect design WITHOUT any way to enhance EXCEPT with the materials or BETTER YET without any wheel at all…
Regarding most wheels STILL all are made from the same OUTDATED materials.
Then you have the combos; PU, fiberglass and resin is the best combo yet; the problem is in the fatigue of the materials due to all seem in the need to have what a pro surfer have.
These other combos are not good enough yet. Normally you need to use PS (that is a crap material but light) to compensate for the weight or the not so strong other materials.
So, if you want something new like many characters proclaim, you should do what I say with the wheel; I mean, the only way to change a design that is perfect is to avoid it. That still is not possible so the only way that the design could change is with new materials (not recycled ones) so the design could change BASED on the materials specs. I do not see ANY POINT to have the SAME SHAPE and other materials…is totally dumb; is an error. New material = new design.
“I do not see ANY POINT to have the SAME SHAPE and other materials…is totally dumb; is an error. New material = new design.”
I think that comment hits the nail on the head. That’s where I’m going with my comment about “how laughably outdated most surfboard construction techniques are”.
The standard poly blank w/ stringer, hand lam’d with poly resin is holding the design of the surfboard back because the materials limit the designs.
Howzit lawless,
Whereabouts are you?
The next CamX show is in Orlando this September. If it’s like years past, you can get a free pass to see the booths and exhibits if you preregister. Might be worth a field trip.
Totally agree with you on all counts. I don’t have the time to build anything for now, but if I did, I’d be playing with infusion.
Edit to add that I also agree with pretty much everything Reverb said. Spot on. It’s just hard for some of us to ignore the potential in new technologies. The field of composites is advancing faster than anyone can keep up with.
WRT new materials means new designs I think some refinements may be in order in response to specific attributes but overall a 5# HPSB doesn’t care what materials or glassing techniques are used - it still has a rocker+rail+template+flaot combo that will drive the performance bus. Maybe you can go thinner if you have more bouyancy or maybe you need to adjust the foil to take better of advantage of flex but those aren’t going to be radical clean-sheet this-changes-everything design.
I think the way people choose to surf will have a much wider effect on designs than the materials.
Curious what type of maneuvers are you doing or attempting that are hindered by standard surfboard construction, but which more modern construction methods would allow?
IMO 90% of surfers are incapable out outsurfing the design limitations of the early 1980s shortboards. 95% are incapable out outsurfing the designs from the mid-1990s. The percentage of surfers who could take advantage of the tech - and shape refinements relative to that tech - in a Coil as opposed to a standard HPSB in PU/PE or a hand laid EPS/Epoxy is so small as to be insignificant to the industry as a whole.
I compare it to the fins. Regardless of the kewl cosmetics of all the “tech” fins Future and FCS sell, It’s hard to come up with a fin tech that objectively outperforms the hand-foiled fiberglass (or G10) or molded FRP fins of the same template.
I believe the tech advancements in surfboard construction have made more progress to durability and longevity than to performance. WRT performance (and within reason) I think the archer is a way bigger factor than the arrow.
This is True. Except that I would disagree as to whether or not the Coil brand and Surfboard design have anything to do with it . Also you are way off on the %% of surfers who can reap the tech. Lots of good surfers out there that you and I have never heard of taking it to the limit and beyond. Spend a little time at Rincon Indicators or El Capitan this winter.
Maybe so, but most of the guys I’ve even known who are/were like that have stuck to the basics in surfboard construction. And design, for that matter.
Lemme ask you - what message do you get from the point that surfboard design and construction tech in HI has usually lagged that of AUS and the U.S. East Coast? And not by a little, either. What’s the most recent design or tech innovation you can name from HI? They have more of these critical conditions but their design track has been more about subtle refinement than break-the-mold innovation.
There’s a lot of experimentation with composites, but most of the work is in sailboards, and canoes.
The work on surfboards is grass roots level and not being advertised much. We still need to work within the high performance surfing world and board designs are right at the top. Maybe not so much with the tech.
Man! I don’t get any messages. Extraterrestrial or Earthly. As I said; spend a little time around an Epi-center. You’ll see it. First of all; Good or exceptional surfers go with what works. Not what is the latest rage in Melbourne(Florida). Hate to beat the drum; but Calif. is still where most new and valid design comes from(speaking regionally of course). Just because you haven’t see new Big Gun design in Miami doesn’t mean that Matt Kinoshita, Sean Ordenez and Jeff Timpone aren’t cutting edge. Everybody on this forum rags on Biolas and accuses him of stealing Swaylocks priority design and tech, but he’s light years ahead of the way you are thinking. You just don’t know the right guys.
So many guys on Kauai and Oahu that are ahead of the curve that I always fail to mention. Forgive me. But I am ashamed that I did not mention Mark Anderson and Honolua Underground.
Another factor when it comes to using advanced composite materials to build surfboards (especially on a larger scale) is the cost.
There tends to be a decent amount of waste loss associated with infusion in particular.
I’m not saying that there aren’t cost effective opportunities available if you look for them, but for the most part these advanced composites are expensive.
For a new construction method to become anything more than just a boutique commodity it needs to be at least close to the cost existing. tech.
In the last few years materiels have come forward that make the board lighter stronger with more float. Coil, lib tech, plus one Stretch and others are embracing epoxy resin and foams that can be recycled. Most of what we have now in Surfboard construction came from other industries. I can see a future that you could design your own fins and print them out on 3D printer. Nano tube tubes could make Board that is stronger then steel. Lighter . Better materials could mean things like adjustable rockers. One board with 3 different rocker profiles that can be adjusted for the wave conditions. Maybe foams that would allow you to shape a board then bake it no need fiberglass or any type of shell. One reason the surf industry isn’t as advanced is that the thousands of Board builders from around the world is that the R&D takes a lot of time and money. .
What I would like to see is % recycled. Take your old Board to the Surf Shop. They grind it up separate the materials. You get credit. For your next board. The future is coming. With that said there willl always be a place for those that make things by hand. We have been able to mass produce pottery for hundreds of years. Yet there are still millions of potters around the world using the same basic skills that have been in use for 4 to 5 thousand years. Board Builders can viewed as “Artist” viewed like the Japanese view the Master sword maker.
Designing, making, and riding surfboards is great fun. Surfing is a recreational sport enjoyed by millions. There is no pressing need for “progress” bcuz as a recreational pastime it’s already one of the best. Hi tech, industrial methods of production do not guarantee a higher level of enjoyment, and are mostly aimed at a higher profit level for corporate entities. Just sayin’.
Well, we surfers are a passionate bunch if nothing else
Huck’s comment:
“Designing, making, and riding surfboards is great fun. Surfing is a recreational sport enjoyed by millions. There is no pressing need for “progress” bcuz as a recreational pastime it’s already one of the best.”
Totally agree. It was not fun having a great board but having to replace it due to it literally falling apart beneath my feet.
If you’re happy with your current boards and they are fun enough for you, that’s fine. But don’t take such personal offense to the concept that there are other ways of doing things.
McDing, your comment about who am I is mis-placed. Does it matter who I am? Is my opinion/viewpoint less important if I don’t name drop?
Does it make the links I posted any more or less relevant based on what my personal credentials are?
There’s always something new to learn with surfboards. I’m always on that quest to see what else is out there to try. Just thought a few others here may be interested to see some methods from outside the surfboard building industry.
My friend shapes my boards. Another friend glasses/bags them. I love to geek out with them on what’s possible and see if we can make it happen. It’s a great feedback loop that I enjoy immensely. It’s good to push yourself and others to improve their craft beyond what they think/expect is possible.
That was my intent for posting these links. Just a different angle to see ways to wrap a foam blank in plastic.
