resistance to change...why

General Discussion
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publicity should be used wisely… eg education of the public to changes and benifits

Hmmm, just an observation but ive rarely ever seen an advertisement used “wisely” Almost 100% of the time its used to push hype, spin, distortions and outright lies. Almost never do you see an ad that educated you with facts…

Here in the USA we are going through an avalanche of political ads based on character assaniations for the upcoming presidential elections…

122

I find it interesting that the one term that has been missing in this thread is the term competition.

Our economic system thrives on competition. However, Clark’s monopolistic strangle hold is probably the one main reason for the resistance to change. IN fact change is being systematically blocked by Clark.

Small surfboard companies live in fear of Clark. Companies making 1500 boards or less must toe the line and keep their mouths shut and whatever they do they dont dare mention the word epoxy, because epoxy eats urethane foam and is the natural enemy of urethane foam. And the enemy of Clark.

One surfboard company I know added epoxy to it’s line of boards several years ago. Since they were still ordering blanks from Clark for the poly boards they worried about any reprisal by Clark, so they tried to keep the epoxy line on the DL and only for custom orders. Somehow, Clark found out, and the orders were either delayed or filled with defective product. I saw 20+ twisted blanks. An entire order of defective blanks. NO one thought this was anything but a deliberate act. I for one was not fooled.

But.

What do you do with them? Send them back and do without production or what? This created a real problem and huge financial hardship on this surfboard company and it’s owner. Were he not persistent and tenacious he would have quit. Weaker men or less dedicated men would have taken down the sign. But this guy lives breathes and loves to make boards. So he didnt quit and he eventually went totally epoxy and with a little techical help from their epoxy resin supplier RR they are now making money again and in business full on.

Solomon may be big, but they are competition and big is what it will take to weaken Clark. I’m all for it. Bust the trust and the industry can grow.

Now, everyone who reads this will know the score. Solomon coming in is a good thing.

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One surfboard company I know added epoxy to it’s line of boards several years ago. Since they were still ordering blanks from Clark for the poly boards they worried about any reprisal by Clark, so they tried to keep the epoxy line on the DL and only for custom orders. Somehow, Clark found out, and the orders were either delayed or filled with defective product. I saw 20+ twisted blanks. An entire order of defective blanks. NO one thought this was anything but a deliberate act. I for one was not fooled.

Ive heard this several times from the guy who taught me how to shape.

He has mentioned to me that theres certain things you dont want Clark to know and if they do find out you can end up on the blackball list…I said they cant do that! He said oh yes they can and they will eff you and your blank order over. then he said what the hell can you do about it?..

Ive always wondered about that…

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Good points. I believe I touched upon this in my earlier post. To reiterate:

I would assume that blank maufacturers, for example, have a vested interest in using their old fashioned technology (e.g., molds) and knowledge associated with polyurethane foam for as long as possible, even though polyurethane is extremely toxic and environmentally destructive. (They have probably invested in some pollution control equipment as well, but most likely only because they were required to through government regulations.)

Therefore, they push polyurethane foam blanks for as long as possible to get the most out of their investment. Eventually they will have to ‘give up the ghost’, so to speak, but in the meantime we all pay the price (i.e., the air is polluted) . Unfortunately, this is a ‘business as usual’ practice; using and polluting a common resource (e.g., the atmosphere, a river, the ocean) and passing on the costs to society in general.

125

well who needs clark , when you can get foam like this…see pics…ive been getting foam like this since 88 …

simply design any rocker/thickness distribution, on a curve program…email it to the foam cutting company, then the truck delivers it within the week…

in the early days i had to take a cutting disc to the foam company , basically a floppy with all the information on it …it started with a friend who inspired me to build boards with this foam ,i picked up this 12’ sailboard , so light it was wrong…

i would give rocker numbers to him we would analyse the curve on his computer , then he would spit me out a floppy and i would take it across town to the foam cutters, then pick it up the next week…

my very first ones were done like his sailboards ,pretty much the equivilent of the standard surftech tufflite of today,

for about 5 years p/e p/u boards were built alongside eps/epoxy/composites…

by the end of 93 i had brought my last container of p/u blanks…

i remember telling midget over the phone that i wasnt going to be buying anymore foam from him coz i had my epoxy boards worked out …he said “i won the world titles on a polystyrene board in 66, you’ll be back” that was the last time i spoke to him…

this foam is less than half the price…

i can design a new rocker on the computer and have it a week later, no investment in expensive shaping machines ,the cutting is free !!!included in the price of the foam…

you cant fool the children of the revolution…

regards

BERT

126

Absolutely right Retroman.

Since the topic is “resistance to change-why” I’m simply adding fuel to your fire by putting in my two cents as to why I perceive there is resistence to change. My points are about the unethical side of restricting business competition. I believe your points were more in the line of clear cut business / financial / capital investment decisions. The two sides actually compliment and work very well together to form a more complete picture.

To borrow the words of one of my professors, “Let’s raise the level of discussion from the abstract to the particular.”, I was trying to bring the discussion to another level. In other words I’m supporting and adding to your points with annectdotal information.

I could supply names, but I’d rather not. At this stage, that would be unethical. I would need to secure their permission. However, not telling the story accurately would be unethical too. And using unethical tactics to attack an industry institution would be wrong. So, I guess I might have said; if I may borrow the words from the TV show Dragnet, “The story you are about to hear is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.” Perhaps that would have been a better intro to my previous post. Oh Well, that’s 12am for you.

That said, the price of freedom is vigilance. Each of us is responsible for protecting his or her rights. Can a small entity bring pain to a big entity? Of course. Can they pursue damages? Of course. In fact it would be advantageous to do so, because on one hand Clark has a lot of money. On the down side they have a lot of money, to buy legal protection. So it’s a tough decision. If I was Clark I’d look out. You can’t be a 800 lb. gorilla smashing up a small room and not expect people to notice. Particularly by the government which is not a small entity, which changes the whole picture. And that is the proper channel for an attack of this magnitude. Given the rewards available under the whistleblower act I would run as fast as I could to the nearest ICC office adn file my claim.

FEI (ForEveryonesInformation) as recently as a couple weeks ago a hand full of whistleblowers received a $30million payday for reporting marketing kickbacks by Claritin maker Schearing Plough.

So to be sure, Retroman, I’m complimenting you and your ideas. There is one small difficulty with a thread of this size and a small brain like mine. I cant just respond to every post individually and so my thoughts tend to blend it all together and I find myself, for the sake of time, replying only to one post with thoughts for many. But I did read and take notice of your words and ideas. I apologize if I failed to give proper recognition. Hopefully, in the future my methods will improve and become more scholarly.

127

Hello Bert,

I assume that you are not going to tell everyone where to get those blanks of yours!

In which case you should have said “Who needs Clark, when I can get foam like this”

There’s a big difference!

Regards, Roy

PS Isn’t your balsa aeromodelling stock? Do you butt join or scarf those short planks?

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roy…any polystyrene manufacturer will have a computerised cutter,the amount of other businesses who rely on odd shaped pieces of styrene means every styrene factory must have one …

you pay by the cubic meter…cutting is free…you can get any weight from 12 to 30 kg per m3

sometimes they charge you a set up fee for programing the co-ordinates…

but thats where the guy off the street and the small manufacturer can save and get what he wants…

by using a curve program…

macsurf, autocad,foil, theres heaps…

design your own curve and thickness distribution , convert the information to a dxf file …and email it to the foam company…

obviously you will have to ring them and work out the details…

a small producer to a multinational can have access to a computerised profiler at no cost…no fee for programing if you design the curve yourself…

i have computer savy customers who design there own rockers and send it straight to the foam company ,i tell em to just put it in the sunova file and we agree on a name for future reference…

i cant make it any easier than that…

just pick up the phone and make it happen…

regards

BERT

129

Gentlemen,

I’ve never been part of a message board before but I have to assume this one is a unique and powerful tool.

The amount of information (and joy) to be gleaned from this site is incredible. To see “old” woodworking techniques to state of the art “hello, I’m sending you a file…send me a perfect blank as designed” posted side by side. Throw in some big business vs the innovative builder, add some environmental concerns and send me off on my day.

Reading a few of the rare wood threads with the inherent life respect of many members and the underlying theme to live with aloha, surf with respect. Those threads alone had me examining my surroundings, appreciating craftsmanship more, influencing my consumption.

    Having Ambrose chime in to say " Surfed crappy little waves, with prior nonsurfers.......What a GREAT day to be alive" or Doc sharing a lifetime of "I can fix that"  or someone just saying "looky what I built!" These things have become part of my daily thoughts and enjoyment, and got me into the garage creating. Hell, even Roy's relentless "crusade" (tounge in cheek, but with respect Roy) makes me want to paddle in on a giant board sometime.  

  All of this brain candy is shared with craftsmen who's love of creating / experimenting is only surpassed by the joy of dancing on water. Sharing, supporting, critiquing and yet very little of "my way is best". There is however a lot of "Cool...Congratulations" or  "thanks I'll try that, I never thought of that before". 

I can only hope there are forums for medicine, farming, energy etc, allowing this type of mind exchange. I fear money or trade secrets probably inhibit the flow of information.

Maybe this isn’t the best spot for a “thank you all, let’s all take time to appreciate what we have”, but I felt moved this morning. No time to edit really, I just wanted to pass my stoke along. I guess I should increase my raffle ticket fund to help Mike along as well.

         Mahalo all, Gil

yes, Surf with respect , honor the kings and each other.

130

Thanks Bert, it’s very decent of you to give us those details. It makes me wonder about why more foam board builders don’t make the shift. I would have thought that custom cut rockers would have them excited.

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Thanks Bert, it’s very decent of you to give us those details. It makes me wonder about why more foam board builders don’t make the shift. I would have thought that custom cut rockers would have them excited.

Yes thanks for the details Bert!

I didnt know that you could get custom cuts of foam from the manufacturer…actually im shocked!

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ive been keeping this stuff to myself for the last 15 years …ive done well enough out of surfboards to be happy where im at …

this technology has somehow missed the mainstream industry , and gone straight overseas…purely coz the conventional industry has been conned by propaganda…even to this day some of the crap i hear down the beach even , comments that are so removed from fact about eps/epoxy/composite…

so i figure with a healthy jump on the rest of the industry i can show you guys how simple it is , and where to start ,coz your not gonna get it from your regular suppliers…

ive taken a step back , to just enjoy life …

its time for someone else to run with the ball…

ive showed its possible to use this construction and achieve ct wins…

ive had some of my other work claimed in the past…only to be left out of the picture…

so if thats the way it is , then i might as well give it away and at least be appreciated…

regards

BERT

plus , theres some changes coming , and this stuff is gonna help…just doing my bit …

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simply design any rocker/thickness distribution, on a curve program…email it to the foam cutting company, then the truck delivers it within the week…

Ahhhh! This makes me drool like one of Pavlov’s dogs. That’s the advantage of living in a country where half of the inhabitants surf.

134

Foam Cutting is big business.I found a place in Atlanta.The precast concrete guys get all sorts of mold plugs cut by these companies.They have "shaping machines"that will cut anything from a hat to a boat hull.I showed a longboard to a precast concrete guy and asked if the company could mill a board.He laughed and said it was piece of cake…probably take 15 seconds on the multi head machine.Pretty amazing.They just do a design on the computer and send it to the foam cutters via the internet.Later boys…I gotta go change the brushes on my Skil.

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Grunion, Thanks for your thoughts, well stated. Sounds like you are indeed…enjoying the ride!

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If boards were made to last we would have more of them…instead of wasting our money on despossible surfboards…build them to last its new age…all things that are state of the art today are built to last forever…

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I’m going with a single layer of four ounce on my next shortboard. I want it light as a feather and I don’t give a rip if it breaks in half.

I’ll just get another.

I’m not broke.

The kids are broke. They can buy Surftechs.

138

Its a fashion thing too, surfboards are a fashion accesory…its not like you could ride the same board for 15 years and still be ‘cool’…thta could only happen if you didnt give a crap what others think…and there isnt many of those people around.

The reason its a fashion thing is that surfing is consumerism and fashion follows it…consumerism is disposable surf boards and ther oot of the problem comes from the ‘idols’ in surfing who dispose of their boards every week…if they had to ride the same board the entire ‘season’ then maybe the grommets would be like…oh its cool to have a board for a while…from their on up.

Who cares though, as long as your not part of the problem

AC

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Who cares though, as long as your not part of the problem

AC

…We are part of the problem.

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The skateboard and surfboard industries in particular have conditioned the younger crowd into believing that it is cool to “thrash and destroy” stuff. Make disposable product and encourage them to wreck it fast.

Brilliant marketing! They HAVE to buy new stuff on a regular basis. Why make it stronger? It only postpones the next purchase!

Same with all manufacturing… you don’t think they can build a car or refrigerator for instance, that will last a lifetime? They certainly can but they won’t. It would interfere with next year’s business cycle.

Buy buy buy toss toss toss.

We aren’t just part of the problem, we ARE the problem.