resistance to change...why

GhostInMachine,

You wrote:

“I’m ready for the future and I’m pulling my son over the edge with me. Anyone else coming?”

Me, I said I’m already on the otherside?

By that I meant I took the leap of faith and I’m in the Future: Epoxyland.

Looking back I dont see what the commotion was all about? What’s the big deal? Why is everyone crying about poly? Why the fear? Why, why, why?

MY first epoxy board was a TFS (Tuna Fin System) Twin Fish given to me by Greg in exchange for a hand full of MVGs. No one will ever pry that board away from me. Except maybe Greg if he wanted to donate it to a museum or something. Maybe. It’s still running smooth, no smoke, handles great. No cracks or creases.

"I’m ready for the future. I’m ready for the deal. Ready to let go of the steering wheel.

It’s no secret." U2

Mark

As soon as I hit “Post Reply” I got it.

Are you the guy that rewrites your posts 5-6 times? I shoulda got it then.

I’m almost ashamed to be on the west coast team. Come on guys and gals, we used to lead the world in many trends. From what I can see this one is the most important one related to the surfing industry that’s coming back at us. Step up to the plate and take a swing. Industry monitors - don’t wait until my son takes back the beach at Newport - he’s got a big enough head as it is. (not just from the swelling from the hit from that poly board)

Ghost

Yup. I self edit, because I know I’m being read. Five to six times is average. Mostly trimming the fat. I respect Swaylock readers and don’t want to waste anyone’s time. Thanks for remembering that precise detail.

Your son has a misson.

well what can i say…

i get this warm feeling when i see how well greg is respected, it definatly works both ways , when i first came in here , being so far away in another land … i had no idea who anybody was,

greg was the first guy in here who stood out from the pack ,in the respectful way he treats others ,many times greg made comments to me which automatically make you feel that hes treating you as a friend, made me feel welcome here at swaylocks…

greg had my respect early …but now as i find out more and more about you greg ,

im impressed by your character…

keep up the good work greg, im glad to be supporting the program…

for the first time ever , after years of derision , being one of the few lone epoxy /eps/sandwich builders, it finnally feels like a small snowball is forming…

stoked to be here/now

regards

BERT

I picked up my son’s boards yesterday…Epoxy IS unreal!!! No more poly. Mission: Phase One accomplished.

They finished out at around 1 1/2" thick (Twang) couldn’t of even considered poly.

What is that finish procedure when the board is sand finish(?) but on a darker paint job so you don’t see the cloth? So I know what to ask for next time.

Also, AbeFroman - I think I found someone for you - she doesn’t have a tattoo or pierced anything, she will go with you in any car that you have to the beach and wait faithfully while you surf and she would even eat your sausages.

Thanks all - couldn’t have done it without you.


That dog looks like Janice Joplin.She may have a drug habit so I would have her tested before taking possesion.

…I have some fregging old boards,older than any epoxy ones out there.I surf hard ,and w/ a reckless abandonment in most cases…

…as Kokua said,if people would take better care of their sticks… this thread wouldn’t be here.Herb

Well Herb, you had better get on that telephone and start telling that top 44 to stop riding such gnarly waves and busting their sticks! You are right, they should be more careful!

There is a business rule that says in order for any product to replace an existing product it not ony has to be better than that product but better than it by enough to offset the cost of industry’s switch to it’s use.

In other words if you build a better mouse trap it not only has to be better than existing moustraps but better by enough to make it worthwhile for all the mousetrap companies to switch their factories over to it’s production and eat all the money and resources they invested in the old mousetrap equipment.

That’s a big hurdle.

I suspect from what I read on these boards that while epoxy may be better, it is not so much better that it will overcome 50 years of Poly based infrastructure in the way that the Model T overcame the horse buggy business.

Actually what you are seeing seems to be following historical form for non-disruptive products. New "lightweight’ companies - unencumbered by committments to poly - are popping up to take advantage of epoxy as only they can.

they will either totally supplant poly in time or they themselves will be supplanted by the next new thing.

Everyone busts sticks

…That is who really puts them out there and not on the racks.

…I see on a precentage, just as many epoxies busted as well.

…remember DHP resin? …got rash?

as far as the top 44 …I really could give a flying F**K.

They don’t care about you or me and I say the same about them.Herb

General consumers subscribe to the surf mags.

Herb, the top 44 are who all those young grommets look up to for inspiration, and they trash their sticks! The surf mags also promote the idea that it is good to trash your stick as often as possible. The whole thing is a toxic scam.

Roy,

I see that we agree on something here.

Sad huh,I’m sure you are a great person and well respected in your own community.I wish you the best and hope that all you goals/dreams come true.Herb

Actually there’s a bit more to it than that…

Eventually all manufacturing industries must replace the equipment used to manufacture whatever it is they make. This is a normal part of the business cycle. A plant used to make cars, for example, has a certain useful lifetime, so even should the car model being made remain high in popularity and require very little in the way of changes or modification, eventually the machinery, etc., used to make that car will wear out and must be replaced.

At that point, since their equipment must be replaced anyway, the manufacturer can and usually does decide to modernize/upgrade their plant, equipment, etc. Indeed, it is a requirement if they are to remain competitive.

In the surfboard maufacturing industry, since the equipment needed is much simpler, this process is probably not as cut and dry as it is in the car making industry, for example, but I am sure the same basic principle applies.

I would assume that blank maufacturers, for example, have a vested interest in using their old fashioned technology (e.g., molds) and knowledge associated with polyurethane foam for as long as possible, even though polyurethane is extremely toxic and environmentally destructive. (They have probably invested in some pollution control equipment as well, but most likely only because they were required to through government regulations.)

Therefore, they push polyurethane foam blanks for as long as possible to get the most out of their investment. Eventually they will have to ‘give up the ghost’, so to speak, but in the meantime we all pay the price (i.e., the air is polluted) . Unfortunately, this is a ‘business as usual’ practice; using and polluting a common resource (e.g., the atmosphere, a river, the ocean) and passing on the costs to society in general.

But I think there is much more to the story than that. I think there is definitely a mind set among many in the industry against learning/employing new technology and methods.

For example, when I started shaping again a few months ago, I decided that I didn’t want to deal with glassing the boards as I knew what a hassle and mess it could be. So I contacted a couple local glassing companies. Two problems surfaced.

First problem: I wanted epoxy and no one wanted to deal with it, even though I offered to procure the epoxy. I was referred to a couple of companies, one up in Oceanside which no one had the contact info for, so that was of no help, and another local glassing company which I could never get ahold of, even though I left messages and waited over a week to hear from them (I have intentionally omitted the names of all parties involved).

Second problem: I was shaping balsa, and the glassers just did not want to deal with balsa, whether using polyester or epoxy!

In the end, I decided to do the glassing myself, and it has actually worked out quite well. Epoxy has turned out to be much easier to work with than I imagined, definitely much easier than polyester, I’ve learned a few new tricks and skills along the way, and since epoxy doesn’t have the same degree of environmental problems associated with polyester (e.g., negligible VOCs and much less waste), I don’t feel too guilty about using it.

herb… i agree that there are plenty of old polys around…

built right ,a poly can last the distance…

years back , i was always confronted with the same requests from customers…

light and strong…???

everyone always asked for light and strong…

with existing technology that is not possible…either weak and light or heavy and strong…

that was a major reason i went searching for new ways of doing things,

in the end i was able to offer my customers a board that was as light if not lighter than anything the pros would be using, but also as durable as any heavily glassed polyester board…

so what do you think my customers would choose???

just some numbers…

when i was making and riding polys only , coz of my size the lightest i could build a board for my self was 3.2 kilo , they lasted 3 months max, disposable boards glassed the same as any pro would have it , those same dimensions glassed to last were 4.5 kilo plus…

now i can get my own boards down to 2.4 kg and my last current shorty (not the magic carpet)is now pushing 6 years old…ok so its showing a few signs of abuse , but the amount of surfing i do i would say the 4.5 kilo polyester board would be looking pretty used as well…

so yes polyester boards do last , but with epoxy combinations you can get the performance of the pros with the durability of a heavy polyester…

its win win …

regards

BERT

bert and others please dont take offense to what i will write in the next few lines… only a very short time ago several of the swaylocks regulars bagged the s-core project… now…from how i see it… they came on to the scene very publicly with huge financial backing. they introduced to the mainstream public something new(many have varied opinions on how new but as far as the mainstream magazine reading public is concerned it is). they have been thru a deal of R+D as many of you have. they may be percieved as having the wrong reasons. (marketing clothin etc). hey also offer what bert just said his boards do too! (quote)" so yes polyester boards do last , but with epoxy combinations you can get the performance of the pros with the durability of a heavy polyester… "(unquote) now please take a step back and look here what they and surftech are doing!.. they are readying the public for Custom products like bert makes which may be stronger, and the materials that greg at resin research offer which definitly are better that what we have had as a industry standard for x years. time takes its crazy toll (pink floyd)and now is your opportunity to roll with it. i see progressive guys like greg webber having both a surftech and a salomon model… many of you respect his ability as a high performance shaper…he is rolling with the changes… so many of you seemed to resist salomons changes in the board process…i cant see too many reasons why… i for one have welcomed their appearance on my local scene and have now found epoxy supplys and knowledge getting easier to source… im all for change and i will try any thing i see as benificial to progession of my chosen passion in life

dave , i reckon what you say makes perfect sense, salomon are definatly in it for the long haul, i was sitting at a contest today , 2 juniors walked past , one had a poly dented and dinged all over , the other a salomon with no dents , i turn to the guy im sitting with and say "hows the difference in those 2 boards " he says “yea ,no comparison” he had a salomon as well, it was still pretty tidy…

like i said on the salomon thread , they are definatly an improvement on a standard poly, but in comparison to other epoxy boards there still behind…

one of my original gripes was when they first burst on the scene , they had this marketing blurb which read “first technology breakthrough in 40 years” …

imagine my disgust at those words when i had covered the same ground a decade earlier…

im actually glad in one sense that surftech and salomon have emerged, it makes me feel that what im doing has more credibility now…on the other hand i feel a little left out coz i never paid the surf media to promote my product, there by recieving no credit for my work…the media only prints what it gets paid to print…

but hey thats life…

regards

BERT

I agree with you Bert about the media.All you have to do is spend around 20 Grand for some ad space and they will do a nice article on your boards.Or is 20 Grand enough nowadays.???

well one full page advert in aussie mag in a every day space (eg not your choice) will cost you between $2000-$3000aud, plus seps plus photo plus artwork plus eytc etc…

i always found , that unless you needed more work , publicity caused more problems…

on one hand it helps to let the public know things , but on the other hand if your flat out and cant keep up with current production requirements , then it makes things worse…

regards

BERT

publicity should be used wisely… eg education of the public to changes and benifits