Ripped Off

Industry Talk
1

ok so now we have the sways that has come of age and entered the commercial realm …

so i click the link and take the fcs tour …

if i answer the questionare it will tell me exactly what fins will best suit my board , for my style and weight and the waves i like to surf …

well i can tell you for a fact that the fins that were recomended dont even come close to what works best for me …

now i actually know the difference …

what about all the crew out there who dont , its the greedy leading the blind …

the uneducated will just buy the fins the experts recomend no questions asked …

im so off commercialism at the moment , i think i picked the wrong day to log onto the new sways …

i think right now i will contact fcs (its late maybe tommorow), i think they need help in some areas , it pains me to see people given misleading information or guidance …

nice site , well engineered , love the concept , but definatly needs a few blanks filled in , which would be better off as blanks rather than the wrong answer …

also a question to mike and sway crew ???

do we have a responsibility to our sponsors now ??

will we get booted or locked because a sponsor is being criticised ???

what happens if the sponsor is shafting people but at the same time helping sways pay the bills ???

will we lose our free speech ??

will the dollar stand in the way of truth and facts ???

will commercial propaganda change the spirit of sways ???

maybe i shouldnt complain , but rather just join the circus and except it as a fact of life …

regards

BERT

2

I am glad that some one else has found that sites advise a bit off…I thought that the couple of times i looked into the recomendations they did not make sense…but i am not a super advanced surfer yet, or someone who has played with my fins alot…but based on information from the old fcs site that i rmember reading, the rec did seem off…

congradualtions on being sick on comericalism too, or rather consumerism…I think that the new sawys is just bend to the pressure of costs and the ads to do not detract from actual discussions…at least i have not noticed them too much…maybe i am just traied to ignore all adds… easy here to since the adds are not moving and have tons of sounds etc…that is the worst part of surfer fourms…

hope you get some surf soon.

3

Independant constructive critisism is what I think it’s all about. Keep it up Bert, and everyone.

If the sponsors (are they?) of this site take this site seriously, then they should listen to the viewers.

The underground market isn’t really the commercial market, even though it’s the hardcore ideas that become commercial eventually.

Follow the leader, not.

4

Yeah I got my first board with FCS (and removable fins for that matter) so I could experiment with fins. I tried the Fin Selector thing using different answer and they pretty much always recommend the H2s and the 3D Red Tip for just about everything. I talked it over with a guy who had experimented with most of the FCS fins and he gave me this advice, use Futures lol. But aside from that experiment with size differences between trailing and rail fins, but on the FIn Selector program it always recommend the Fiberglass fins and the previously stated fins. I don’t know what to believe. I guess I’ll just experiment my own way.

5

Jeeeze Bert, you sussed it! Mike and the rest of us stooges are in the black helicopters sowing the seeds of Capitalism as dictated by Big Oil. We have installed the mind-probe software that not only records your keystrokes but will actually get you to spell properly…

I kid…I’m not sure if any of us understand the amount of time and personal cash that Mike puts into this place. He was able to stave off the inevitable for a bit hoping first, that contributions would work, then that the SwayBay would work…unfortunately neither did the job. As for your questions:

  1. Your responsibility is to be true to yourself…

  2. To my knowledge, there are no “Sponsers”. If someone is booted for dissing a company, it will be for the same reasons that the Mandela and Aquatech threads were locked or that the basic rules have been violated.

  3. Free speech? There is no free speech here. If you want to talk within the framework of the rules set forth for years now; you can say anything you want. Usually, performing a “moderation” is a fully discussed, pain in the ass that is not taken lightly and I don’t have any reason to think that will change.

  4. The dollar has always stood in the way of truth and facts. If you think it hasn’t, wake up and smell the coffee. Only through the exchange of differing opinions (in a polite manner), can someone decide for themselves what is true or false.

  5. As for comercialism affecting Sways…time will tell.

I shit bricks when Mike changed the font in the logo and added the water background. Not sure this is really that much different. Give it some time.

6

look at at this way, you get what you pay for,

and the ‘recommendations’ are free…but your right the co’s rep is on the line…guess theyre making their own bed…

btw, did they recommend a really expensive fin? if i was in it just for the dough i’d recommend the most profitable fin…period

here’s the reality of the online sitch…

clicking on an ad/link over and over is far more valuable than the guy who goes there and explores for education…its all about the number of hits…online marketing can be real silly shit

7

So what’s new? Have you ever gone into a surf shop posing as a regular old surfer who deosn’t know much about boards and listen to the advice given to you by their salesmen??? Do it sometime for a good laugh.

8

Balance … . Mike needs to pay for site hosting and domain registration . . . bandwidth . . . not expensive, but not cheap either.

Commericialism needs to be balanced out. As Bert pointed out, Surfer, Surfing, TWSurf . . . their mags have like 70% ads, and 30% content. Then out of that 30% contect there is 30% semi useful information, and few gems.

Sways is more like 80% content and out of that 80% useful . … that’s a good ratio. Most of learning about surfboard design has come from here.

FCS . . . they are like Microsoft. they have strong market share, lots of $$, lots of R&D, but they seem to miss on simple details. Like how the fins are attached. Or maybe streamlining the software and making it a little more robust.

Hey Bert, aren’t you hooked up with Nev, who’s into promoting surf lifestyle and marketing of surfing? But at least (from what Bert posts) his {berts} boards worth it.

9

one sec, i need to catch my breath from laughing…

yeah, try it in a country you don’t speak the language that well.

10

Bert’ your critisism of the ads on swaylocks comes off as pretty hypocritical considering that you have been using it as free advertising copy for your products for a couple of years now.

I have never met Michael Paler himself but the quality of this website shows that he is a person of high integrity. The income he gets from these ads will give him some well-deserved compensation for all the effort he has put into this site.

11

two threads on the site changes, I’ll post here. Start Rant now:

I asked Mike what he pays for hosting while in Big Sur. It’s reasonable, but nobody does hosting for free. If you shape/glass/sand do you give it away for free? I used to be in the web hosting industry. There is a least a Gig of content here. That is alot on a shared server. He is on a shared server, so there’s your slow response times you get sometimes. Maybe the naysayers should go pricing hosting and get Mike a better deal? Or better yet donate Sways a web server (dual proc with a really big bus, 2 gig’o’ram okay?)and monthly hosting/bandwidth charges? How about a one time registration fee? Or monthly fees. How would you like that?

I wouldn’t be shaping my own boards and saving bank if it were not for Mike and YOU guys posting your knowledge. Simon Anderson deserves a buck a board?

How 'bout what we all get from Sways? I know what I get out of it. What do YOU get out of it? What’s it worth to you?

Thanks Mike, keep it up.

12

must say that i agree

13

I don’t have a problem with the new ads or the content of, except that some of the Google links can be too general and lead me to non-surfing sites, i.e. epoxy patio coating?

FCS takes plenty of shots on this website with no moderator interference. Heck, I’ll even take a shot right now. I clicked a FCS link, navigated to a cool pair of winter booties, tried to find a local retailer and had to play some kind of bizarre scrolling video game ritual for 20 minutes (I don’t play video games) before I was able to finally click my home town and come up with… “no dealers found.” Checks of other local towns give stores but no phone numbers. Why can’t they simply provide a secure check out procedure so I can purchase the item I want and get it over with? I’d be willing to bet that any of their dealers within driving range won’t have the item I want in the size I want.

As far as recommendations, many surf related businessmen, including Bert himself, advocate specific designs within their own known parameters based on what works for them, their crew or their molding processes. I’ve been surfing long enough to know what I want and sorry to say, some of those designs won’t fit my needs. I respect knowledge, technical and surfing skills but I don’t need anybody telling me how thin, long or wide my next board should be. Likewise, Bert doesn’t need FCS telling him what type of fin to be using on his boards. For those without a clue, maybe the FCS recs would help?

At least FCS offers their “Test Drive Centers” where I can go and try any fins they make before purchasing. Does anybody else do that? Can I try a Surfburger at my local shop before buying?

Now if I can just find a decent link to some 5mm booties…

14

Yeah, the FCS fin selector is a huge rip off. I looked for fin selection on a funshape (egg) and ended up getting my best selections being all the signature fins. I even tried several other searches. Not one composite cheapo fins were ever listed for me. the cheapo FCS fins are my staple fins. I think its more or less a marketing ploy.

15

Schocking on first view, but in reality - not that big of a deal. As Lee V. pointed out, in so many arenas of life $ = reality. I say Good on Mike. If I don’t want to read what FCS has to say, I don’t click. Glad the discussion looks familiar. As another pointed out, if it wasn’t for this place I wouldn’t be working on a board right now, well not RIGHT now, as I am typing this, but you know what I mean… Taylor

16

The alternative is that all swaylockers are charged a subscription Fee!!!

Go on, get your credit cards out dedicated swayers, and see how many posts you make when YOU are paying for it!!!

Ooooh.

Speedneedle

17

Funny you should mention MS. That company like FCS was born of theft. US Dept of Justice won a judgement against MS and Brian Whitty won a judgement against FCS. In the last few years Bill Gates has spent about $10 billion, that’s billion with a “b” on R&D and came up with nothing. Meanwhile FCS stole another idea.

MS did better stealing and paying judgements.

FSC never stopped.

Lesson is do what you are good at.

For us it’s good to know who is the thief and who isn’t.

Meanwhile at Apple, Jobs, Gates worst nightmare, came out with Ipod.

Who is the real innovator and who is all about the almighty US$?

18

"im so off commercialism at the moment "

solutions…resign from nev , stop advertising your product on sways and surfer , stop buying commercial products [grow your own vegies] , stop complaining about the website which for years has FREELY supported your advertising and badmouthing of the industry. And give your boards away for free , as you obviously wouldn’t want to be promoting consumerism , would you ? [Oh , by the way, consumers pay your bills and keep you in a job , if you hadn’t realised by now Bert]

If you are really fair dinkum [is that what you aussies say] about hating commercialism / consumerism [same thing] , then do the above suggestions .

Then your words may have integrity.

cecil

19

I found the dealer!

they stock everything!

it’s sway bay…

logic? you dont have to be a vulcan mind meld expert…

federated carbuncle supply should be availiable right here

drop shipped from central wharehouse

througgh sways with mark-up kicked back to

admiral paler …there-by allowing access to the stuff

for the teeming hoards of swayloholia

and fund raising for the serverdelic

hardware mania behind the curtain…

fcs stands to get highly qualified feedback

from the grassroots !!!

something if paid for would cost em plenny

and is likely to give -em a leg up on the competition!!!

we could be sellin ourselves cheap here …

bert they may wish to pay you per word for your highly qualified input.

if they dont… we may have to secure the services of an agent…

dont forget these are the guys that hustled the gov for research money…

how much do they pay Bunsun Honeydew and Beker

…ambrose…

20

Ahhh…the more things change, the more they stay the same…

this is why I come to sways…this thread is actually just like any old on fire thread on sways.

I like the fact that we can keep things civil and rational, with a few jokes and puns thrown around…but not to the point of insulting each other (umm, ok sometimes, but rarely). I’ve been reading everyone’s opinion and they’re all good. comming from different sides, but all viable.

Rio