Ripped Off

Industry Talk
21

k guys…can’t help but feel some people here are attacking one of our valued resources.

I’m a research scientist. I play with molecules. It’s hard to find money to do this unless there are people with big bikes and big beards involved (illegit) or big business and equally shady buying of opinions in the medical realm (kinda legit).

I could be poor and stuck in academia, or I can have all the resources to buy whatever chemicals and equipment I want…but I’ve kind of got to sing to someone else’s tune. Not as much freedom in my research as I would have had staying in academia.

Can’t help but think that transitioning from one’s own business to a larger organization where the bottom line weighs a bit more heavily and the hype machine needs to breed the new consumer is a rough one and obviously one might question their decision to get involved or be frustrated with what’s going on around them…lack of control perhaps.

I don’t know that Bert necessarily has been hyping the SALE his products here and if he has, I’d like to know how many people here have BOUGHT one of his boards because of it! So…I say enough…leave him alone.

As for Mike and the google thing…well…who here has kicked in to the paypal donation button at the bottom of the screen? I haven’t! If you have, stand up and say AYE! Otherwise, shut yer damn yaps and realize he’s just payin bills and lettin us keep freeloading and leaching without resorting to required, PAID memberships. Good on ya Mike; Shame on the recent whiners who didn’t buck up before this went down.

G

22

Bert ,

I think you need to do a marketing course – when you understand how marketing works you take a much more philosophical approach – you stop thinking “those guys are lying to me to get my money” and you starting thinking “yes, I recognise that bullshit” and you don’t care about it so much.

Regarding the Google ads – they are placed in the threads based on key word appearing in posts – that’s why the ads in this thread are about fins. Its all automatic - FCS probably have no idea in what context those ads are appearing. You could start a “FCS are the anti-christ” thread and the ads will still appear and Mike will get paid when someone clicks on one.

Anyway that said, I’ve got an idea how we can “stick it to the man”. We create a Swaylocks fin selector – Same functionalty as the FSC one, but based on the unbiased expert knowledge we have here. The final recommendations could be general fin type and or specific foils from all makers. i.e. you click through the various questions and you get a general recommendation plus list of options from FCS, Redx, Futures, lokbox whatever . We put it in its own domain say www.finselector.com or whatever. We get every Swaylocker with a web site to put links in their sites to it – that’ll push its Google ranking up to the top of any search result. So then surfers will have an unbiased authoritive resource that they’ll be able to find very easily on the net.

Anyone interested? If so I’ll start a new post and we can start figuring out how it could work.

23

calm down stubs

ive never seen bert advertizing since ive been here

only freely giving excellent advice for people and encouraging us to make epoxy composites ourselves

very selfless and giving in my opinion

get over your self mate

theres abit of give and take in everything

ive never thought learning so much about composite engineering was possible without getting a degree .

because of bert and the others who have followed this path ive have learnt heaps

havent learnt anything from the FCS company

other than they like lawyers, and there fin systems fail alot.

oh didnt they do a how to make a fin post ?

oh no that was bert again wasnt it

donk knock it just cuz you don understand it

24

Bert, just wondering what exactly has been ‘Ripped off’ . . . and from whom?

25

had to go to the home page 3 times but still didnt find fcs–finally found the google ads-but still like reading sways

26

What? There’s advertising on Sways I can click on it and Mike gets some coin? I’m all over it. Mike

27

I know that some sort of website wizardry is what Pinhead does for a job, so read what he says about the adverts…

Try it, go to another thread, see what the main topic or most recurring word is, and then note the ads:- Wow man! The ads are somehow related, even if only through some dumb computer logic. ( This is how you can get ads for Epoxy floor varnish!)

So, far from FCS having taken over sways, its purely a binary game of odds that their link turned up when Bert logged on this morning…

So what this means is:- If we all post about how bloody excellent Speedneedle is, a link to my website will appear!!! Yay!!!

Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle Speedneedle

etc,

Hehe…

Speedneedle

28

roy roy roy roy roy roy roy …

darn it , THAT drew a blank !

ben

29

John, off the sub. but if you are looking for good 5 mil booties you might want to check out Hot Lines.

30

hey josh ,i got a laugh out of that one …

i had a feeling this one might create a stir , and most posts were realistic …

stubs theres a difference between selling and education …

i will back silly up and say that some of us have never posted a link to our own sites or any other sites promoting our wares …

i will tell a story of something that happened a few years back and it should give a bit more insight into what i was thinking at the time , when i started this thread …

a guy comes into my shop looking for a good board to learn on , he was in his mid 20s about 80 kg , i recomended 7’-6" to 8’ , 21 through to 22" wide etc …

what he needed i didnt have and couldnt make him one in a reasonable time , so i wrote dimesions down as a guide and said check the other shops and look for a board something like this …

i see him in the water a few weeks later and hes sitting up to his arm pits on a 6’-2" by 19 , struggling to even catch a wave and not getting anywhere near his feet as he fell out of the lip …

the guy at the local surfshop told him minimals were for old men and that the dimensions he was sold would be perfect for him …

i could have sold the guy anything , but because i didnt have what he needed , why would i sell him something that wouldnt suit him …

the guy at the other surfshop has at least 20 years in the industry and yet still chose to make a sale even tho it was the wrong thing for the guy …

thats my whole point about commercialism .

we all need commercial products thats obvious , but if you dont have a product that is right for a consumer , then your just ripping him off by offering him something else in your range just coz you have it in stock , even tho its the wrong thing for him …

a sale for the sake of making a sale , with no thought or care for the consumer …

so to roy , taking the fcs tour made me feel ripped off , coz of the obviously bad advice i was given …

one of the other reasons im so off commercialism at the moment , is because im immersed in it more than ever at the moment …

ive probably picked up more surfmags in the last 6 months than in the last 20 years , yesterday i read a whole article about a new manufacturing material which was the biggest con ive ever read , to top it off the board they were using to promote it wasnt even built with it …

it was a blatant attempt to use the reputation of a good product to sell something that cant possibly deliver anywhere near what there claiming …

how do i know ??

because i built the board in question , and the materials being pushed in the article would be the last thing i would use …

as far as sways and the finances needed to keep it alive , yes fully agree , and if clicking on the links makes a buck for sways , then by all means , we should click on and off as many as we can …

as far as the argument whats good for one person might not be good for another , yep thats so true , because of all the variables involved …

but if you take a set of variables and weigh up all the odds then one thing will stand out as the best option …

and thats where good advice comes in , because bad advice could see us on something that is completly wrong for us …

but just like the guy at the beginning of the story , he had no idea what was good or bad , and wasnt experienced enough to know the difference , what he was feeling out in the water ,to him was what he thought was normal having no idea just how much better things could have been for him …

so many surfers are in the same situation , perfectly happy with what they have , because they have no concept of anything better …

and wouldnt know bad advice from good advice …

was he ripped off??

the guy who sold him the board didnt think so …

he didnt think so …

but i thought so …

could he have got a board more suited to him ?

of coarse and enough of you guys out there have the common knowledge to agree why …

but in the fin department , im claiming theres massive holes in the fcs range , but rather than except that they dont have anything to suit , they will still try and sell you something even if its not right …

everyone wants fin systems , but not everyone can have them if they cant get a set of fins to suit them …

and that leads to adds …

sways has become reknown for good advice and real unbiased non commercial information …

but now has the potential to be clouded by commercial bad advice …

ok i can tell the difference between a good link and a bad link …

but what about the guy who was sold the wrong board , hes off on the trip of more bad advice and looking at the prospect of being lost forever in the fog of design …

ok thats my opinion , but the worst thing is , i dont have any solutions , its a fact of life that commercialism takes over anything that becomes popular …

and then what was once valuable and unique , becomes mainstream …

the only logical thing to me is to click the links to support sways , but get back here for the real unbiased thing …

maybe the adds will give us more to criticise and talk about …

for a surf company , you couldnt ask for a better place to recieve a broad range of feedback …

hm maybe i should join the circus …

regards

BERT

31

Bert - glad you didn’t disappear… :slight_smile:

I love to think of myself as Gods Own Bullshit Detector. I went through the FCS thing too and, sure enough, I got tossed a recommendation for some really expensive carbon blah blah blah thing with a little wing on top. Whatever. Hope I spent long enough there to make Mike a few pennies to keep this thing going :slight_smile:

BTW, I have done the Paypal thing. At least once, I think maybe twice. Not enough, but its something.

A local shop met a customer one day, a big Nebraska-farmboy type. Sold him the biggest board they had in the used rack, so he could ‘learn’. He took it to the mushy beachbreak out front…it was a 10’6" x 21" Mavericks gun. We’re all lucky nobody was killed, seriously.

He took it back after a couple sessions, had had some feedback from other guys in the water. No dice. No returns on used equipment.

He took it a few blocks away to another shop where I happened to see & hear his story. That shop took it in trade towards a nice 10’2" G&S team model and hung it from the ceiling. The second shop knew they’d probably never sell it to anyone, but who wouldn’t want to help this poor dude out?

I haven’t set foot inside that first shop since & never will. They were always known for attitude, but this was beyond the pail…

To me, Swaylocks is the second shop. Yeah, the rent has to be paid, and giving the guy $200 for his gun probably took all the profit out of the G&S…but ‘do more good than harm’ still means something here. I don’t mind at all helping to pay the rent a little.

32

Well put Bert.

I’ve felt that you have promoted your technology and process rather than your end product. materials are what is chaging the indusrty and you are about as good a benchmark as anybopdy for that. I think perhaps some see your process and the end result as being one in the same. I do not. and I thank you for staying true to your ethos.

Drew

33

Surf shops = Microsoft

Swalocks = Apple

Drew

34

and thats why Ipod is way cooler than any crap microsoft tries to push on the market… uh oh…does this remind anyone of the thread “whos the innovators? the backyarders or the pros?”

35

Even Microsoft started as a fledgling company. Some of us hate him because Bill Gates was such a success, became filthy rich and we did not.

36
Quote:

The ads are somehow related, even if only through some dumb computer logic. ( This is how you can get ads for Epoxy floor varnish!)

Actually that’s what annoys me about the ads - the fact that they’re placed by some search algarythm so they often don’t make sense, like if we start up a thread about “stiffness” we are probbly going to see Viagra ads at the bottom.

37

John, my question is does all that facial hair indicate imminent success or did the boys have to cut it off before they made it ? :wink:

38

Hey Roy -

Beats me. I’m pretty sure that’s Bill Gates himself in the lower left corner. No facial hair even back then.

39

Yeah that’s Gatesy, and you can bet those long haired, bearded types were “encouraged to seek opportunities outside the organisation” When Microsoft went fully corporate.

40

That’s him lower left, and Paul Allen lower right…who to the best of my knowledge has gotten rid of his beard… and gained a professional basketball team and a really cool boat- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yacht_Octopus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Allen

http://www.vulcan.com/

and -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation

just thinking that that the photo was taken around when I was first screwing around with these things…and I didn’t look that different…

doc…