i love sways…
what started as one thread had become a “don’t hate the playa…”
love you guys, don’t mind the links, and as soon as i can actually pay my credit card, will buy some swag…
Bert – I just saw the article you’re talking about – I don’t know the background, whether it really is a blatent con job - but my experience with the media makes think its more likely to be incompetance - looks the writer has been shown the UV catalysed resin (which I think people on Sways have been using for years) then been shown the Surfburger and gotten totally confused and thought the resin and the Surfburger where one and the same. Shoddy journalism there - potentially damaging your brand. The mag should make amends with another article to clear things up. On the other hand if the article was a presser prepared by the resin company and then given to the mag to print then thats more serious.
“the fact that they’re placed by some search algarythm so they often don’t make sense, like if we start up a thread about “stiffness” we are probbly going to see Viagra ads at the bottom.”
Probably just reading your cookies, so if you have been sniffing around some porn sites you just might get the Viagra ad. Ha! Probably also knows your address and what you had for dinner if you went out to eat and used your credit card.
Bert, if you hate commercialism then you are a full blown hypocrite. You now work for (or with) Nev and I don’t know if there is a more commercial shaper than him in this country. He would have surftech or whatever else came his way if his profile was still high enough for them to offer it to him. You have said before that now perhaps it’s time for you to consider your profile and place in the industry and take a different channel, maybe you should listen to yourself more often.
With regards to the FCS site, from my understanding it’s very new and any site that new has bugs. Maybe a better solution would have been to contact FCS and suggest improvement. Every mag this month (was that in every commercial magazine in Australia had Nev jumping on a burger, one even had you standing in the pic as well) your boards had FCS in them as well. Another consideration, Nev hasnt paid for an ad in years and to get any exposure for free is great in a commercial situation, one that can only make the burgers a success and secure your employment there. They might be interested in your criticism of the article as well. This is complicated by the fact that the guy that sells the sun cure stuff to you also works for the same mag… It’s tangled eh!
Were you ripped off? I don’t think so. Sure you are a big guy and I have read your posts about all fin companies making fins too small for you personally. But I am around 90kg and have been surfing for about 26 years so maybe I am not a kook and to be honest any fin for me and the boards I still ride bigger than a FG7 (usually use the FG5 or H2 with 3D red tip) feels way too big for me. Isn’t that the beauty of surfing? That individual choice and feeling is what makes it so unique? In FCS’s defence, I tried the selector as well and it recomended the H2 and the FG7. These are the top of the line that they sell, would you recomend a PU 4 ounce now that you make the composite epoxy? No, of course you wouldnt, you’d recomend the best you had to offer then you’d let the customer decide which was best for them considering their budget and or requirements. This is no different.
The QLD FCS rep was talking up your product to me just the other day. I Hope he’s not looking after you too well as you sure as hell aint looking after him with this. Did you know he actually used to manage the business you now work for?
Yes pinhead, you don’t have to take a marketing course these days to realize that marketing = bullshitting = lying. The better you are at telling lies the better you are at marketing. In history it was about building better product. Today it’s about the image of the product created by marketing departments and quality is rarely an issue.
“We make the best hamburgers in the world because our marketing department created a CLOWN to tell you so … and you beleived us! Now EVERYONE can get fat … our wallets and your mid sections!”
But what your suggesting … truth … is the modern public ready for such a new and nobel concept? I don’t know if they could change from the steady diet of BS they’ve been fed. Especially the youth who have grown up with 100 channels feeding them from dawn till dawn the drivel of champions. Indeed will surfing even exsist in the near future or will it to be relegated to a video game that only appears on a two dimentional TV screen? If so then the FCS fin selector will work exactly as advertised.
I can get Viagra here!?! This site is the best. tO
This is what I learned about marketing - Advertising, PR and are only part of the marketing mix the most important part is creating products people will love
In the Olympics of marketing the gold medal goes to the marketer who know what his exactly what his customers need and sells it at the price they are willing to pay. Becuase his product fits their needs perfectly, his customers tell others about his product - he doesn’t have to spend a cent on advertising - maximum number of customers for zero marketing spend. That is perfect marketing. So Bert Burger with his Sunover business in WA is the master marketer.
When a customer knows that a company is lying to him, then that company’s marketing has failed miserably - its having a negative effect on sales - they are selling less product than they would have if they had done no advertising.
What I see in the media is lazy, by the numbers, advertising and sooner or later people wake up to it. When your average surfer clicks through that FCS fin selecter and the H2 keeps coming up, he’s going to get a wiff of bullshit.
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Even Microsoft started as a fledgling company. Some of us hate him because Bill Gates was such a success, became filthy rich and we did not.
Sure, I’d invest. That looks like a picture of my dad and all of his friends in 1978. Hell, my jr high English teacher is in the lower right corner. And I think that dude with the stash on the left in the middle row taught shop!
As for the FCS fin selector, it seemed pretty spot on for me.
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H2
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red tip
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fg7
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Sunny
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fg5
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occy
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my favorite fin
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haven’t tried
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haven’t tried
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my fav for bigger waves
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like 'em, but sometimes wish they were a little bigger (fg7 above…)
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only composites I don’t hate and will occasionally ride
And I know I have gotten so much out of sways that I feel that I’M RIPPING THEM OFF by not contributing financially (or in knowledge…)
yes gumby , it is indeed a tangled web …
hypocrisy tho is something i try hard to avoid , i think in any case at this point im doomed either way .
as the attention im getting is percieved as marketing and commercilaism , when in reality its a media frenzy over the fact the product is the real deal …
i should rephrase the comment about being off commercialism to being off, hyped up, sensational ,not factual ,misleading and misguided commercialism …
i couldnt give a rats , whos who , who pays for what , whos dating who , or whos paying who …
i just want to make good boards and just keep making them better , for everyone , not just the people who fit into the average joe catagory …
was i wrong in my assessment of the fcs site ???
what did i actually say ??
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nice site , well engineered , love the concept , but definatly needs a few blanks filled in , which would be better off as blanks rather than the wrong answer …
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but in the fin department , im claiming theres massive holes in the fcs range , but rather than except that they dont have anything to suit , they will still try and sell you something even if its not right …
everyone wants fin systems , but not everyone can have them if they cant get a set of fins to suit them …
so are those comments unfair criticism of fcs ??
i would like to think its more like sound market feedback …
if the fcs rep was talking up the boards , stoked, good on him , thats exactly where you will find me to be the most unhypocritical …
i dont feel i have to talk up someones product just because they talk highly of mine …
why am i using fcs ???
because currently there the best i can get , and like myself i would like to think there interrested in getting better …
no! i cant just get a set out of there current range and surf them , ok so maybe i can , but i cant surf as well with them …
but as far as what fcs are doing overall …
there h2 fins are the biggest step in the right direction by any fin company yet …
there system allows better flexing of your tail than set fins , because of the independant front and rear attachments being able to twist and move freely …
there are more benifits with the fcs system in my construction than any other , but they still need more fins…
of coarse i wouldnt offer a 4oz poly , your right i would recomend our latest tech , but at least i can make it for any size or shape surfer …
my profession is as a custom board builder , giving crew the best they can get for whatever condidtions they may choose to surf…
no fin system allows me to give all my customers the fins they exactly need …
ive got customers and team guys just about in tears because i gave them fcs fins and i havnt got around to making them a decent set of foils yet …
they want my regular glass ons of old, or my foils for what ever fin system i may be using .
but now im restricted by time alot more and making fins has been dificult for me …
so what would you do ???
make less boards , just to make perfect fins for the few boards you can make ???
make more boards and not give a rats about fins and tarnish a well earned reputation ??
or try and get the company who makes the best fin system for my needs to try and increase there range so i can make more boards and have perfect fins and keep my reputation …
also a technical point now for you gumby …
the fg7 felt big to you because they act eraticly and track and over steer , it has nothing to do with there size , its the foil , where the thickest part is placed in relation to the chord length …
if you ran the fg7 template with the h2 foil , you would freak at how smoothe and fast they felt …
i never even mentioned suncure ??
because of all the new composites companies im dealing with lately , with most having head offices on the east coast , when they see the product in person , they all want to do some story or include you in next months composite success article , associating my product with theres , so they can sell more product to other guys in the industry , in some cases all ive done is accepted a sample of there stuff to try , hated it and told them why , then find myself on there list of satisfied customers …(dont forget the non comercial mags , newsletters and monthly updates specific for certain industries)
crew have got to get over the hype , if you make crap and someone tells you its crap , try and improve it …
if i use a product and its good i will talk it up not because there paying me , but because its good …
i had an offer from one company to release a range of new foils into there collection , how hypocritical would it be to brand a product you dont even recomend or use yourself ???
as i would never use the system in my boards full stop …
on the other hand if fcs were interested in some feedback on a variety of foils , i would gladly help, as there system has serious merit in flexing high performance boards , and yes i will indeed contact them and suggest some improvement …
whether they interested or not is another story …
gumby , i like your direct passionate responses …
yes im still off comercialism and the whole hollywood scene that goes with it ,but that doesnt mean that in amongst the hype your not going to get something real behind it …
at least now youve got a guy reknown for being a commercial shaper and a guy reknown for delivering the real thing , if nev keeps doing what he does best and i do what i do best then im sure we will both keep our jobs , and we can both have job satisfaction , nev in front of the camera and me with my face hidden behind a mask doing what ive always loved doing …
just gota shake the ocassional klingon plus make sure we build positive relationships with other companies who are into making progress and improving there products …
thanks for the insight gumby ,insight that only a true hollywood , er i mean gold coast local could offer …
regards
BERT
here ya go gumby , some shameless commercialism …
same board as the states 4 months earlier , plus getting surfed by team guys …
this board has recieved the title of the most abused board on the planet …
LOL try doing that with your p/u thruster …
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same board as the states 4 months earlier , plus getting surfed by team guys …
this board has recieved the title of the most abused board on the planet …
I had to smile seeing that board still alive. It was getting worked pretty hard at the open and I can see that its lot hasn’t improved much! I’m still at a loss at how your boards end up so strong. My boards don’t dent under normal usage but they would be very unhappy with me if I through them across the driveway.
Bert,
I commend you on all your accomplishments and trailblazing attempts to further the future of surfing. But as part of P.E.T.S. (people for the ethical treatment of surfboards) I have to put my foot down and say that I am appalled and disgusted by the way you treat your surfboards. If you don’t stop abusing your surfboards, I’m just going to have to go down there and free all of your abused and neglected surfboards.
Sincerely,
Rio
good post bert…
always a hoot to see those abuse pics!
hey i bet you could do similar things to a bodyboard eh?
Lots of words but I still don’t have the foggiest idea what it is that has been ripped off, or who it has been ripped off from.
i feel ripped off… just spent the last 8 days on the north shore, surfed over a dozen sessions, and just chilled watching at least as many times, went into a few shops and i never saw a nev burger… saw two of cmps boards at big Jackos, saw surftechs here and there mostly min mals, saw a few poopee nevs… i was sure i would see at least one burger at Rocky Point…
all the ripalikes still seem to be riding the same ol’ board, you would never guess it from the mag ads or the talks here on sways…
Hawaii’s a bit behind on this one. You’ll see it the way they’re seeing it in many other places in the world now. The Hawaii builders just got the materials for this in the last couple years. There’s still not an EPS blank builder in HI. Houston, TX alone has four! Cocoa Beach, FL has three. But they’ve had the materials there for over 20 years. The HI guys are just dipping their hands into the stuff for the first time in many cases. IMHO they are also making some of the same mistakes we all made many years ago. But these guys are good craftsmen. I know they’ll get it.
I love living in Texas as far as building goes…not as far as actually surfing. I have 3 EPS manufacturers in a 10 mile radius of me and about 20 - 30 different options of where to get glassing supplies. surf sucks though…all i got is that G-Town Brown.
bert
you are a genius
ive been giving one of my boards heaps and have learned so much about construction and materials
Bert, i plugged in what the h2s were lacking ain every aspect and geuss what they recommended 2nd to top choice was the H2s.
Definitely an interesting post, I think Berts intentions to start this thread were good, unfortunately criticism (both negative & positive) seem to have taken it off track a little.
Anyway, I have been using FCS as long as anyone, I know all their fins and know my equipment so after reading this thread I thought I’d give the fin selector a go…I entered all info truthfully into the selector for a fish, a performance shortboard & a gun, I was recommended the H2 for all of them, guess which fin doesn’t work on those boards? I know 'cause I’ve experimented before. Don’t get me wrong, the H2 is a great fin on some of my boards but not the 3 boards FCS recommended. In my mind, negative marketing for long term, positive for short term.
Good marketing makes you buy a hamburger, you eat more, you get fat, you eventually listen to no-one and common sense tells you to eat healthy. Unfortunately a beginner surfer doesn’t have this luxury…they buy & use what an ‘industry professional’ sells them on whats ‘best for them’. Weeks go by, they don’t improve, eventually blaming themselves for not having the ability to improve on a sport that ‘is just to hard to learn’, ‘I can’t paddle’, ‘it’s too hard’, ‘I can’t stand up’ etc are comments we’ve all heard.
Not a good way to grow the sport huh! Negative for surfing and definitely negative for those whose careers evolve around the surf industy.
Fins are a performance product; the right equipment = repeat sales, an example of positive marketing, not the latest technology. What, H3 comes out and all of the sudden that’s the best for everyone now?
Once again, keeping performance in mind, the wrong sale = potential future lost sale! FCS just sold me on 3 bad sales, according to the fin selector.
If FCS have long term objectives, want to grow the sport in a positive manner, want everyone to be educated to surf better, then maybe they will think about what fin they sell to the next guy/girl. Otherwise, pull out the Gath 'cause there’s gonna be a lot more dangerous surfers with abilities going backwards…start protecting your melons!
I wonder how the shapers & signature surfers (with FCS fins) feel about the push of the latest tech fins over their own fins?
Really? They recommended an H2 for a fish?..hahaha!! Wow…i guess they would recomend a small base fin because that’s the only thing that’ll keep their plugs from staying on…hehe…I kid.
Rio