Just want to say mahalo bill… and i hope you and your famiy are doing well
same to all the others (barry/greg) that gave some time to do this
that’s all just a big mahalo, malama, aloha, and a hawaiian hug
don’t think that’s been said enough to guys who do what you do over all these years…
surfers can often be a selfish crowd.
Hi Bill- I just want to echo what Oneula said… Thanks for doing this. And I would really enjoy your response to my question (via PM) about the Clark 7’0"B that you designed, particularly was there an ideal size that you had in mind ? I have one (green) that I want to shape a single fin out of, to use as one of my regular boards…Other than encouraging me to make it a thruster, are there any rocker/bottom contour updates you would suggest? Updates from what was standard when singles were all we had? Thanks- Jim
Great stuff Bill, you are and always have been a great read. I have also always enjoyed your respect of the reader. Your accurate, consise and easy to understand. Your vision is one of the clearest in our biz, your experience second to none. Thanks for a very entertaining evening. Cheers.
Aloha L.I.T
I will answer your questions in a few separate replies. First some clarification and back story. I have past training and experience as a machinist. Everything in that world is machined to specific dimensions and tolerances. So, quite naturally, it was fairly normal for me to see surfboards in similar ways. Difficulte to do early on, due to hand and eye not being able to follow the blueprint that was in my head. As that improved, and it does quickly using MCS, I was able to shape to tighter and tighter tolerances and do so faster and faster.
Powerful as this was, the reasons for doing so weren’t really necessary yet, nor was the need as obvious as it was soon to be.
Compared to today, design and shaping was more of a magic art and social endeavor. It was mostly a lot of guessing and shooting in the dark until real improvement was stumbled upon or one came up with a good marketing line to get them off the hook. Board dimensions were petty much limited to Length, Max Thickness and Template Widths. These original measurements, though important, were severely limiting compared to the full number sets needed to describle a board and hopefully predict its function through the use of the Scientific Method.
Have you ever noticed how certain things just can’t happen until there is a complimentary convergence of several diverse factors. And once the “Thing” happens, all kinds of new offshoots to that thing also happen. GoPro is a classic example. It couldn’t exist successfully without there first being … The removal of Social constraints against Narcissisim and Voyerism. YouTube and FaceBook being created. Digital imaging. Then Digital Video. Digital Compression allowing HD Video… Then… BINGO… GoPro!
Similarily several factors converged to make MCS necessary. Not the least of which was Pro Surfing and the economics associated with it.
The limited data set that was known and compiled to describe boards before MCS was inadequate to solve the emerging needs of Pro Surfers who needed better ways to guarantee their boards performance so as to payback the investments of their sponsors with more consistent finishes on the podium… BINGO… MCS!
I was always a big fan of science and of course, the Scientific Method. For those not familiar with it, and as a contemporary shaper you must be… You must… Recognize a problem. Develop a Hypothesis as to why it exists. Test your Hypothesis via experiments. Analyze the results. Alter your Hypothesis if need be. Test again. Analyze. Alter Hypothesis. Test. Analyze. Continue until the results from your experiments and your Hypothesis form an accurate explaination for the Problem existing and strongly indicate or create a solution for the problem.
Without having a way to reasonably measure the complete board and the skills to shape accurately to detailed measurements. There was really no way to truly test one Hypothesis against another.
More Later…
Aloha Jim
Cool that you have one of those 70Bs. My blanks while thinner then previous blanks of the era, were still really thick compared to todays contemporary boards. I was trying to get Clark to get on board with a Quiver concept but they just weren’t seeing the need back then. I was looking forward a big hunk and it was very clear to me where thickness was going but not so to them. Many of the blank plugs I sent them, they let sit awhile becuase they were afraid they were too thin. I wanted to create A, B, C versions of each blank. The A Being thinner, narrower, with more rocker. The C being thicker, wider and with less rocker. The B, being somewhere between the others. We never got there, but now there are similar things happening though they are not well integrated.
The 70B was designed as a single fin blank. For boards 6’8" to 7’0". And since I couldn’t make the A and C versions, I had to strike a conservative middle of the road position fot it. My blanks were typically, designed as BLANKS, that is, I wasn’t trying to trap the customer into making a specific board. But rather was providing a BLANK canvas upon which they could paint their particular board and have it fit within.
Additionally, I usually didn’t give away my bottom rockers, so the Natural Rocker in the blank was rarely what I was using in my boards made from those blanks. Therefore, I would highly suggest that you make a single fin from the blank as it likely won’t have enough rocker in it to make a contemporary tri fin, without having to thin out the ends too much to add bottom rocker. It depends a lot on the rocker that was glued into the blank. As tri fins emerged, many others created custom public rockers for my blanks. My personal rockers were always private.
If you make it as a single fin, I would add more rocker and a wider tail then what was common back then. I would have to know a lot more about you, your size and your experience before advising specific numbers and even then I would be guessing a lot compared to how detailed I am with customers here.
Regarding bottom contours for a single fin, that would depend on the waves and conditions you will ride it in and also all the other measurements of the board. Template, thickness, you, etc. Generally though, I would make it flatish in nose, a very slight vee through forward center, increasing toward the tail. Maximum vee at 24" or so, fading out to flat in the tail. Depending of course, on rocker, tail width and fin.
Not sure the era you are thinking of emulating as a single fin, or the tail width you migh use. But you should use a different fin then the popular Brewer fin of the mid 70’s. I can send you my personal template if you like but it would vary depending on the measurements of the overall board, the waves, and you. Or I could make one for you if you don’t have access to making a fin yourself.
Hope this helps.
Aloha L.I.T.
I can’t really cover all the MCS details in the space here. But it isn’t as mythical or complicated as you may be thinking it is. Additionally, to make it work typically requires a deep change on a personal level I will touch on this a bit first.
I don’t know if Swaylockers read books much but I have a suggestion that should be required reading for anyone here. It is written by Steven Pressfield of “The Legend of Bagger Vance” fame. He has written many books but the one I am recomending is “The War of Art”. In it, he defines the things that trip up creative people and he describes some tools and techniques for overcoming them and opening the doors to success.
He is a writer, so replace his “writing” words with shaping words. Here are quotes from the book.
“WHAT I KNOW”
"There’s a secret that real shapers (writers) know that wannabe shapers (writers) don’t, and the secret is this: It’s not the shaping (writing) part that’s hard. What’s hard is getting in the room to shape. (sitting down to write.) What keeps us from shaping (sitting down) is Resistance.
“THE UNLIVED LIFE”
“Most of us have two lives. The life we live, and the unlived life within us. Between the two stands Resistance.”
“RESISTANCE IS INVISIBLE”
“Resistance cannot be seen, touched, heard, or smelled. But it can be felt. We experience it as an energy field radiating from a work-in-potential. It’s a repelling force. It’s negative. Its aim is to shove us away, distract us, prevent us from doing our work.”
“RESISTANCE IS INTERNAL”
"Resistance is not a peripheral opponent. Resistance arises from within. It is self-generated and self-perpetuated. Resistance is the enemy within.
Back to me talking… Excellence in any endeavor requires confronting Resistance and kicking its ass! I seems a common theme on Swaylocks that everyone wants to grow in their knowledge and skills, some even wanting to achieve big success in the surf industry. Or at least get chicks at parties! Ha! I promise you that those who have persued success, know Resistance and know it well. It stands boldly, right in the path you are trying to go down.
All the threads, post, tips, photos, graphics, etc on Swaylocks will not get us there unless we equip ourselves to recognize and overcome Resistance… We are the Resistance!
This leads into your 2nd question about juggling lifestyle, marriage, family, busiess, etc. I will address it in another post.
Regarding the details of MCS. I should note here that some form of MCS is now so commonly used by everyone, that it seems to have always existed. And since the media pretty much overlooked the whole thing, there is no real history of where it came from. That said, being the guy now decades later, who is laying claim and discussing it, it feels well… creepy. Add to that the fact that Cad/Cam shaping, pretty much totally relies on an MCS process, only obscures it more. My detaild brain (OCD) and being a machinist made this all familiar ground to me. In 81, I went back to school in Computer Science so that I would be able to do the programing to create a then, unknown others, computerized shaping machine. I am confident that there would have been little acceptence of the machines without everyone first trying to use MCS and recognizing the immense difficulty in doing so.
There is no limit to the data points one can measure and log. Especially now with scanners. There is also no limit to the amount of boards and waves you can ride, to judge in real time action, the feel of the actual numbers logged.
But the first part of this process is like homework and is not viewed as very fun. Though the eventual results are! The gap in time between the homework and the results is often too great to stimulate many to use the system. This creates a great opportunity for those more motivated to replace those less inclined… and history bears this out.
But until you begin to see the results and are able to specifically act upon them, it is often more work then most will want to go to. Yet without the homework there will be no real success. So you have to decide if your in or if you are out. There isn’t much of a middle road in this. Knowing for sure, requires testing your Hypothesis and then doing it again and again, until you have eliminated all other Hypothesis and only one has proved out.
Here is a measurement plan that can be easily achieved. Template: Nose, Tail, Wide Point and location. Thickness: At 12" nose and tail + tips, Max thickness and location. Rocker: At minimum, measure at Nose tip, 6" & 12" back. Tail tip, and 6" & 12" up. Center: 12" on either side of center. If you can measure in 6" increments the whole way, that is better.
Bottom Contours: Measure at Tips. At 12" Nose & Tail. 24" Nose and Tail. 12" at either side of Center. Note if covex or concave at the same points.
Rails are a huge challenge if you don’t shape often enough to have a good muscle memory retention, of what you have made or felt in boards, then make templates at 12" from Nose & Tail and Wide Point.
Fins: Up from tail, in from rail, Toe in & Cant, Foil. Trace fin Template.
Are you feeling RESISTANCE?? Don’t worry it is just you and YOU are way stronger then you. Kick some butt and move on with freedom and courage as Resistance (you) has no power over you.
Maybe I will post up my ©Order Form so you guys can see what I use to compile and log this information.
BB
Thank you Greg. That really means a lot coming from you.
BB
You humble me Oneula. I am happy to serve here among my peers.
Thank you for the Aloha
BB
Thanks Bill-
I appreciate the explanation, and would very much like your input on the dimensions I ultimately settle on and the fin template…I’ll PM you rather than take up space here that could be better used to answer other people’s questions.
Regards-
Jim
In The PU vs EPS thread you stated that there should be more scientific
testing done. That made me wonder if you have done any testing? Do you shape EPS? have you experimented with any other building methods such as wood skins or vacum bagging . Hawaii seems to be a an excellent lab to study PU and EPS. What kind of feed back are you getting on the different cores and building materials?
Hi Bill,
first of all, thanks for your replies so far to the questions I posed :) :). They’ve all been ripper’s and I’m really looking forward to seeing your reply to the one on my question about juggling lifestyle, marriage, family, busiess, etc.
Some of the aspects of your replies were not what I expected, and it’s made them that much better, more interesting and more enjoyable.
I’ve been holding my tongue for the last couple of days to let you finish answering all the questions I posed rather than interrupting with a response or a comment on what you’ve posted so far, but your question at the end of your post above whether it would be worthwhile for you to post a copy of your order form prompted me jump in with this post; I’d love to see the order form and I think it would make sense to it to post it now (assuming you’re willing to do so) as it would nicely finish off your reply to my question on MCS before you move on to the one about juggling lifestyle, marriage, family, business, etc. 'Up to you.
But, to reiterate what I said at the start of this post, thanks for the replies so far Bill, and am very much looking forward to what’s yet to come.
Cheers!
Please Note this is ©Copyrighted Material. Not sure why it wouldn’t show in the body of the post
Thanks Bill! :) 
'Like the dove in the background/watermark.
One of the things I like about many of your answers in this thread is there’s often a nugget of philosophy in it; am guessing there’ll be a bit of that as you tackle the “how to manage surfing alongside family, business, life etc” question -> looking forward to it!
These are a couple of reasons that have kept me for posting at times. These just need pinlines, deck gloss and then polished.
No worries Bill. Those look tasty 
Cheers!
Those are what keep me drooling at times
Bill,
I’ve enjoyed your focus on precision and thoughtfulness.
You wrote: “If we have to think in 3 parts… Of the overall curve, the most important part is the middle as it governs the boards ability to plane well and move through the water comfortably”.
I ride paipo boards (finned and finless) and planning is a primary joy of these boards. With a 50" board where would you describe the middle? No doubt an overly general question but I’m interested in your thoughts on rocker, planing and enhancing speed.
Regards
Bob
Well… acknowledging the 3 part system (that I don’t use)… on a 50" board, that would be the middle 16.6". But in actuality, I really have no idea on a Paipo board, where the functional middle is or how the “Flow” goes and what part of the rocker is really important. I am only guessing cause you asked. But on a short Paipo board, some portion of the riders body also functions as a planing/control surface. Which would move the “middle” back somewhat.
Maybe you can see why I don’t usually deal with rockers in 3 parts. It tends to confuse things and leads one into over emphasizing individual parts, rather then dealing effectively with the whole.
I don’t know the answer to everything but I can pretend to, just as good as any shaper…! :-) I usually don’t though as I just find it easier to say “I don’t know” rather then speculate on things I don’t have direct experience with.
There used to be a couple of guys that rode them at Pipeline in the early 70s that were amazing! Respect!
BB
I have used a lot of different materials over the years. We built a lot of racing paddle boards with EPS. Fishing boards with XPS. Vacuum bagging etc. Did a board for Shaun Tomson that Gary Young Veneered back in the midish 70s.
Most of my customers seem to prefer PU/PE. Because of that I haven’t invested that much in the great core battle. But if I needed to I wouldn’t take it lightly.
BB
Bill,
Thanks. Makes sense.
Sean Ross, a Pipeline lifeguard would have been one the guys you referred to.
Bob
