Shaping/Glassing

General Discussion
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Hi, I have finally signed up, this place is way too useful to keep reading as a guest :smiley:

Just learning about shaping and glassing as I have had projects waiting to be done for 5 years or so now, and I am sick of looking at bashed up old boards which need restoring to former glory. First things first though… 5’6" thruster for my boy. I stripped all the glass off his 5’6" thruster as it was water logged due to a major ding. Thought I would be able to just cut and rip off the glass, light sand, reglass, dads a hero. OOOOOPS!
I stripped the glass off, and a bit more PU came off than I planned!
First question for anyone kind enough to lend a hand…

Bearing in mind this is a trash board now, so I don’t mind wasting some glass cash on it to learn on, and if it goes well so much the better - Is it possible to ADD PU foam or some kind of filler to reshape the rails which have bits missing (less than half inch depth of bits missing)? I saw liquid PU foam for sale at a FG outlet and wondered if that might work somehow, no doubt messy though. It would just be so nice if i could rebuild the pulled foam pieces and somehow make the blank back to what it was before i pulled the glass off, then i could reglass it with some pigment to cover any signs of the filler?

Am i talking pie in the sky here or is this kind of thing possible?

Thanks

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hey Joey welcome to posting on Swaylocks - just about anything is possible with enough determination. My suggestion is don’t waste your time, but that’s just an opinion.

Had you posted good photos with questions before you began, you might have gotten some viable options for repairing the board, if it were worth it, but based on your verbal description (lacking any pics), I would say move on to the next project. But this time first post up some pics, and discuss your plan of attack.

Another option might be to just shape it down a bit smaller and re-glass, but hard to say - without pics its a pig in a poke.

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Hi Joey, Don’t give up on that board. I’ve been up-cycling boards for a few years now. It started off when I realised that I had a heap of old boards I made years ago that I was never going to ride again. I had about fourteen of them! Basically I get two boards, cut them up and glue them together to make a new blank. The extra width allows you to get a pretty decent shape out of your new blank. It helps if the board in the middle is at least 2 1/2 inches thick. If you’re careful you’ll end up with a 2 1/4 thick board. This works well if you’re making something short and wide.

I’ve also done this with old snapped boards when I’ve replaced the stringer. I did an experiment with a length of foam glued together at the snap with gorilla glue. The thing is as strong and as flexible as a new piece of foam. Couple this with a new stringer and glass and you have something as good as new. I snap a couple of boards a year so thins certainly takes some of the pain away!

If you look at the photos you can see the old dings in the boards. The ones that don’t get shaped out I fill with spackel. I reuse old fins and make new ones. I even reuse fin plugs. The board on the far left was made of two snapped boards and also some scraps of foam. The board goes well, but I don’t think I’ll go so far again as it was rather time consuming. If you look closely you can see where I’ve drilled out old fin plugs and legroom plugs and glued in some foam. If you’re wondering why I’ve drawn such a wonky template on the glued board, well I use this a guide to make sure I can get the board I want out of the materials available. Once I strip the glass off this goes away and I shape the board like a normal board. Shaping around foot-wells, dings, glue lines and other quirks has been educational. I’ve found that my shaping with new blanks has improved as a result.

The boards look a bit unusual and a bit rough but I can assure you that they surf really well. Some of the old boards had quite long histories so it’s cool to have them live on in something else. they surf like new boards as the new glass and glue lines give them that new board spring.

The whole thing takes quite a bit of time, and obviously if you don’t enjoy this sort of thing, or are trying to make money from it then it’s not worth it. I really enjoy this so it’s something I look forward to. The boards end up costing me about $60 each, so it’s hard to beat that aspect of it!

Yeah, so go and find another board and maybe give it a go!

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“Had you posted good photos with questions before you began, you might have gotten some viable options for repairing the board” Yep - hands up to that one, dork alert, I know!

“its a pig in a poke” - could be worse, it could be a poke in a pig I guess. :smiley: (pic below of the newly ruined board!)

Spud - positive stuff that thanks. I want to do the same, but down cycling seems to be my speciality so far!!

“Spackel” - Whats that? is it filler resin (lam resin with q-cell?). Oh actually, I have a feeling you mean household decorating filler, just remembered I read that somewhere else. I am in UK so the phrase isn’t one i have heard, over here that stuff (if thats what you mean) is called polyfiller or polycell. Similar stuff? (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Polycell-Polyfilla-Purpose-Filler-Polyfiller/dp/B01BOROJBI)

“legroom plugs” - sorry, what are they?

Yes, not trying to make a profit here, and definitely love this kind of stuff and think I will enjoy it too, so thanks for the idea. I do actually have another board I could chop up, but its VERY thin so probably not an option. I have told the wife and kids to keep eyes out for broken boards on market sales locally as you do find them and I did have visions of using that as a way of getting cheap blanks, so long as the boards are longer and thicker than the finished product I hope to make.

Thanks again for an inspiring post. keen to get cracking now! (no pun intended!!)

I have attached a pic of the kid’s board minus the glass and foam which wasn’t supposed to be missing at this point! Also attached picture of a very old board (which I loved for my first few years of surfing). It is a restoration job, but very thin with a lot of compression marks, so I might sand it back to the lam glass and then add another laying of glass to try and strengthen it and get a new finish on the deck. It also had a glassed in fin, and I might just try my hand at making my own glass fin and glassing it on. it sure looks tricky, but rewarding if I succeed.

Oh one last thing… You can buy squirty builders gap filling foam. I am told this is PE and i have used it and know how damn sticky it is! Maybe I could use tape to reform the shape of my kid’s board, then squirt in filler foam and sand it back, would that work? Or would it be better to get some PU off coats (from surfboard shop) and cut the rough outline of the board into straight edges, then glue on pieces of PU and sand back to remake the original shape?
Would be great to get it reformed as my son LOVED the board. It was pretty banged up so it wasn’t going to last anyway, but the shape, rocker etc was all perfect for him. Actually that’s a lie, it wasn’t quite perfect. He said it was a bit “slow”. As one last cheeky question, what could cause that? He could be just imagining it (he is only 11, but surfs almost daily). I wondered if the board maybe has too much rocker? The whole thing is quite curved nose to tail. I wondered if flattening off the bottom to give a more water contact would help speed it up a bit? Any tips welcome, at this stage I can try just about anything.

Consider me a new convert to up-cycling (with practice I can aspire anyway!)
Thanks again

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not sure why pics not working. trying again

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agh, whats up with this?

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trying png instead

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You will find a lot of help around here but you will also find a lot of responses of “use the search function” and it’s true. A search for ‘spackle’ will reveal a good amount of info that has been answered many times before. That’s not to say we are blowing you off and appreciate the stoked new blood around here. As for the stripped shortboard, I would write that up as a lost cause and would remove the fcs plugs for a later project. If you want to get introduced to re-shaping and glassing, you could use that blank to make a skimboard or hand plane. That mambo board looks saveable. I would fix the dings, add a fin (maybe use the recycled fcs plugs) and ride it into the sunset. Here is a link to an example of spackle: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Phenopatch-8-oz-All-Purpose-Spackling-Paste-10222/202066014

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Rocker, rails, fins, bottom, all could affect board’s top end speed. Flattening out the curve of the rocker thru the middle should help, but not because of “more water contact”.

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Hi Monkstar, thanks for your reply and no feeling of being blown off at all. I hadn’t thought of searching but will try that now! I am after information and if I can find it without causing people blistered fingers, that’s cool by me :slight_smile:

Cool re Spackle - yep that’s household filler, plenty of that in my shed, I had no idea that was usable! I have today toyed with the idea of making a wooden box with lid, squirting in some expanding building foam (someone told me it’s PU) and trying to get it slightly more dense than usual, then using it as off cuts to glue into the board.
I get your point about binning this board, I may yet do that, but do fancy trying to save it. My son already said he would love to make a skim board or bodyboard with it if it really is a lost cause, so that would be cool. For now I am going to have one crack at fixing it up, but like you I don’t hold out much hope. It’s only cos the kid loved the shape so much that I am bothering, and yes I could try shaping a blank to match it, but that remains the backup plan as I can’t afford to do that unless I have to.

Looking at that pic of the board, not sure if you can see but there are a fair few shallower patches all over the board. Assuming I could fix up the rail chunks with off cuts, would it be ok to basically spread filler pretty much all over the board to bring up those depressions and restore the smooth finish before glassing? Or I suppose spackle could be tried too, cheap enough! I fear that if I sand it, there will be no board left as its pretty thin already.

Thanks Huck, will bear that in mind if I do a copy of this board from a blank, I do think it definitely needs a bit more flat on the bottom, there is virtually no flat area on it, it’s almost one giant curve.

Just moving to the Mambo board if I may… this is a good 30-40 year old board at least I think.
I have cleaned it off today and it looks prettier already, but there is plenty of damage to be repaired. I would LOVE nothing more than to restore this board to its former glory. It’s such a weird and unique shape by today’s standards, never seen anything like it on beaches round here. It’s 9’6" but really thin and narrow, and goes like a bullet if i remember right!
One big question I am stuck on, and no matter how much research I do or how many YT vids I watch, I can’t seem to find the answer…

If you take an old board like this, which is obviously very yellow now, and fill the dents and dinks with Q Cell (which i assume is the best approach) I will end up with white patches all over the board, very unsightly. How do I get around this? I know you can spray a board with car paint and then clear lacquer over, I did this with my other son’s board years ago. But for some reason this just feels very wrong to me, I want to use traditional methods as much as possible, so glass and resin only. Could anyone comment on how to go about repairing it fully, but making the board look unrepaired, i.e. like a new board?
Slight caveat to that - the board has plenty of compression marks so I am wondering whether to fill all compressions and basically skim it right back to the first lam layer, then reglass with a skin of 4oz glass top and bottom. Bit worried that will make it a lot heavier. But somewhere in this process I would love to know how to keep it’s totally original colour scheme, and hide the repairs somehow. Failing that, maybe a dark pigmented resin will be the only way to make it uniform in colour and hide the repairs.

I just can’t seem to find anyone online who manages to hide repairs WITHOUT using spray paints. Am I wrong to turn my nose at spray paints?!
Thanks all

P.S. - I am not getting email alerts of replies. I am “Following”. Does anyone have this problem or know a fix?

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Flattening it out through the middle = less curve, I didn’t mean it should be actually flat

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No, i did understand thanks. Just flattER shall we say, or better still, more flat area than before :slight_smile:

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I asked a similar question regarding fixing pressure dents and Huck came to the rescue. If you want to fill all divots and dents here is what he said:
“When I’m doing ding repairs and I want to fill the little dents and divots on the bottom, I rough sand them first. Then I cut a bunch of little patches of glass to fill them. I drip a little resin in the crater, and layer the glass patches as needed to fill them level. When dry, I sand flat and apply a final coat to hide the weave.”

If you use his method, you won’t have filler all over the place and you won’t need to paint anything.

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Thanks, no idea why I don’t get emails when replies land but hey ho I am here now.
Thanks for that, sounds like very good advice. I actually popped back to the thread to ask a question about shaping. I have had a nightmare today with my electric plane. And before anyone goes “it takes practice…” I know that, although I have used a plane quite a few times admittedly on wood, but it’s not a totally new toy to me. what confuses me the most is that I used an old surfboard blank (stripped junker board of glass and used its blank to practice planing) and it worked beautifully. Lovely smooth shaved surface (kinda kinky really :D). But when I moved to this US Blank I bought, it’s RIPPING badly. I am hoping I haven’t ruined the blank altogether, not sure yet.
I am using a Kress 6702 600 Watt planer, and I fitted brand new tungsten carbide blades before I started. The result is below, first pic is the old blank where it seemed to work nice, others are the new blank with a horrific effect from the plane, like its being ruffled up. Would be grateful for any tips or comments as I can’t progress with it doing this.
Thanks

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Slowing down your passes should help with the tearing

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and set the depth of the blade a little shallower

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It doesn’t look like your cuts are that deep but you may be moving too fast as stated previously. My question would be what foam density are you using because the lighter foam densities tend to tear easier. Also many years ago Clark foam came up with the optimum blade angle for cutting foam. I don’t recall the angle off hand, 35 degrees or something like that. So if your blades are sharpened for wood and not foam this could pose a problem. You may need to get blades that are sharpened in a way that is better suited to mow foam blanks.

On another note, and this is just a guess and hard to tell from a picture, but it looks like the old blank you practiced on might be a walker blank which cuts and sands a little different from US blanks.

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When I did my First board I used 80 grit lightly with some ripping and then went down to smaller grit. I didn’t like using the planer as I couldn’t set it up well enough

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I am no chemist so can’t say what the difference is between now and then but I don’t remember foam tearing like that back in the day. Just pull the trigger and MOW!

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“Slowing down your passes should help with the tearing”

Thanks. Someone else at my local surf shop said the opposite which confused me, I thought slower should be better as you have said. I did go slow though. didn’t seem to make much difference.

I fitted new blades but have had them in cupboard (sealed in packet) for years now. They were not RAZOR sharp. I couldn’t really cut myself on them. Should they be like razors?

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“and set the depth of the blade a little shallower”

I have the adjustment setting on the shallowest possible cut. I did notice the blades can be adjusted with allen wrench, then can go further into the machine (less cut) so i might try that too thanks.

I am still confused though as all the videos I watch online show people taking a good 1/8th inch off without ruffling, and often without even turning to 35-45 degree angle. Also confused that my old blank it mowed perfectly even before i changed blades (old ones were blunt but still worked perfectly)

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“optimum blade angle for cutting foam” - AAAAAH, maybe I am not clear on this then. When people say “cutting angle” I thought they meant the angle of the blades to the direction of travel. I am doing 35-45 degrees, so instead of pushing the planer straight forwards with width of cut perpendicular to direction of travel, i am turning it halfway around to push at 45 degrees. Do you mean the actual way the blades are ground, the angle of the cutting edge?
These are the blades I am using https://www.raygrahams.com/images/thumbs/0009895_700.jpg

No idea what the blank on old board was, but fascinated at your knowledge to say that based on a pic!!

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“I didn’t like using the planer as I couldn’t set it up well enough”

Thanks, that helps me not feel too much like a dork :smiley: - I would do the same but I have a lot of boards planned and I really need to suss this.
I am looking at buying a new planer just so I know its set up perfectly and has sharp blades. I can get a Hitachi P20 from my board blanks supplier but its way too much money to spend now. I actually might buy a Makita 18v battery one. I know battery stuff is generally looked down on, but I have loads of spare batteries (lots of Makita battery tools here) and the angle grinder is great, the circular saw is great, and can’t see any difference between these and mains powered ones. It would also be less hassle worrying about cable while i learn how to plane shape.

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“I am no chemist so can’t say what the difference is between now and then but I don’t remember foam tearing like that back in the day. Just pull the trigger and MOW!” - That’s just it, exactly my point. All the videos I watch look like that too. Many people just mow at angle angle and get a nice smooth finish. I am trying everything, angle change, pressure change, blade change, direction change, nothing seems to not run the risk of a big ruffled area and i don’t have enough foam left to keep going any more so a bit stuck :frowning: