So in went to shape the deck and u know how it has that dome to it? That curve to it ( i mean across the short distance ofnthe board, side to side, not the long way like the general rocker) i found it very hard to shape it evenly. It came out slightly uneven. Does anybody have any tips on shaping this sonit becomes even?
it's just like the rails.
you need to band the deck...........evenly from side to side.
herb
http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1018545
Study this… There will be a test later… Everything you need to know is in there.
[quote="$1"] you need to band the deck.. [/quote]
You can take this to the bank!
yup bill,
unless you shape transverse/across the blank...............which i never do............there's really no other way to look at it.
even a cnc machine looks at it in bands.
i think in this case........... here.......... and with most beginners............. is a sighting problem.............not just physical sight ,but a lack of insight..........to tranfere what is in your mind and bring it out into the physical world.............if you don't aquire this skill,......................you'll be doomed to having a lumpy board.
herb
sorry for my missspelling i did that really quickly on my iphone last night :)
(not braging here, just talking about my thoguht process) I have scored 99% on a test for visual and 3D ability issued to me. I have been compaired to the top 10% of americans at visualization and 3D compairison. So my visualization i can assure you is NOT the issue.
I think the problem is i was was inconsistent in my banding. The bands were not the same width on eather side of the board. I feel that this is an experience thing that as i do more i will get a scence for where my planer blades are and how much am i actually cutting.
As always thanks to all the great feedback!
Doing deck bands in a single pass takes a lot of practice since the angle is shallow and the bands are very wide at max. If you take out having to adjust the cut depth (to make the band wider) it may be easier for you. This was called “scrubbing” and it works well with planers that have tight depth controls (not Skils). Set the depth to less than 1/16" and make your first pass following the contour of your last rail band. Run the planer backward and forwards where the band needs to be wider. It cuts shallower on the back stroke so you’ll have more control. Since you can’t see the cutting action of the planer from the top, scrubbing helps develop a sense of where the blades are. As Herb pointed out, the real trick is getting the next side to match the first, and that takes a good eye. Make light pencil lines if you have to. Really high dome decks are tedious for even the best. Harold Iggy used a transverse router jig to dome decks and did it before the rails were banded.
dont be affraid to make yourself an arched sanding block with some 60 grt paper glued to it
after banding you can drag that sucker up and down the length of the deck to clean up the bands
…of course is like the other guys say, but I ll bring to you another point of view:
first you should have a concept, a design, then look for the RIGHT (thickness, rocker, area) plug or make rocker template if you use PS. Then, you visualize the shape another time (you say you are good at it)
Pre shaping process included true the blank both sides; then start the shaping process: the bottom, bottom rails, then flip and skip the deck, shape first, the rails (due to you have the right plug…); then “fade” the top part of the rails onto the deck with another band; after all these (taking measurements) get rid of the crust of the deck, adjust the deck and rails on the nose and tail and clean everything, done.
Keone Downing told me to draw lot of lines on the blank. Make them on the deck along the rail, and some on the bottom like every inch or so. Maybe closer if you want or need.
Think of it as a actual visualization of how a machine sees the blank or what experienced shapers see. Make your cuts from nose to tail or tail to nose referencing those lines. The rail bands should be even on both sides, then once the main rail bands are cut you could draw new lines and start bringing the deck down. Make sure both sides are cut the same based on the reference lines.
You need to have the proper lighting to see the curves on the board and if the 2 sides are even. After a while you won’t need to draw the lines because you’ll have all that in your head. I still do a few lines on the rail to get started . It’s good to have one reference point that you don’t want to go past. Maybe one day I won’t need to draw it anymore.
Howzit Herb,I can remember shapers who counted their passes and I don't know if it really worked since I was an eyeballer but they swore it worked for them. How you doing my good friend,it's nice to be back in the saddle. Aloha,Kokua
[quote="$1"] ...I can remember shapers who counted their passes... [/quote]
Aloha Mike,
That's how I was instructed by Del Cannon, many years ago, when I shaped for Velzy. Prior to that my ''technique'' was to shape one half of the board, and then make the other half match it. Del was horrified by my antics. Del took pity on me, and showed me his disciplined method of shaping. What a change! I use the method to this day, as well as ''eyeballing.'' Using both methods, I manage to get a decent surfboard to pop out at the end of the process.
What I (a mega beginner) do:
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Cut from the rails toward the stringer
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Make long, smooth cuts from near the tail to near the nose
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Maintain the same angle in each pass (a little deviation is okay)
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After making 2-3 passes at about 45 degrees at the rail, make 2-3 more passes just above the previous cut (slightly overlapping @ around 30 degrees or so)
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After making a total of 5-10 passes, DO THE EXACT SAME THING ON THE OTHER SIDE (or as close as you can).
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Continue to work your way in toward the stringer.
***Remember to COUNT your passes ALOUD.
counting the passes and eyeballing is how I was taught,
hey Kokua
good to see you up and posting
Herb
when you gonna post up that new thing you made?
"(not braging here, just talking about my thoguht process) I have scored 99% on a test for visual and 3D ability issued to me. I have been compaired to the top 10% of americans at visualization and 3D compairison. So my visualization i can assure you is NOT the issue. "
Funny stuff! I'm one of the top 10% that they overlooked when they invented the test......I use a straight edge and a ruler.
I NEVER count any passes, when I have the deck cleanly cut on the best side, I duplicate the curves on the other side, check roll side to side
doing okay mike............not great..........but holding my own.
i rarely count my passes................most blanks are so inconsistant that the numbers don't match up.
i have some cheater tools that help in checking the level.
i showed kensurf this very tool some years ago.
i learned it from bob smith.
it's a simple thing...........a 6 or 8 ft. piece of dark colored cord/string(i use black parachute cord) and two equal weights tied to the ends(i use torpedo fishing wt.s).
evenly drape the line over the board from side to side and run it down the board from nose to tail..............that's it.................it'll show every lump,bump,and dip.
herb
wire frame image, now imagine a piece of netting with say, 5" squares you could drape over the board and visualize rocker and crown, sway engineers, get on it stat
way ahead of you jim.
i got some gill netting ................like 7-8 yrs ago............i shot it with tool dip and weighted it in the same way as the cheater line.
the tool dip gave the netting low stretch/distortion,but it still remain flexable enough to drape evenly.
truthfully..............i rarely use either of them(except to show others where there shape is in need of help)..............my eyes (both inner and outer) tell me what i need to know.i believe it is the same for you as well.
herb
I always cut the template first, skin/surform/sand the deck to 80 grit, then flip it, skin, rocker, then take it to thickness (including concaves, ect.) from the bottom. Then I flip it and fine tuned the foil at the ends from the deck if needed. Rails last…
I used to Fred the tuck on both sides, then flip it and measure and mark dots for my rail bands. But now I’m starting to get away from that. Using the “wire frame image in my head” technique, I planer the tuck with a single bevel, on both sides equally, then flip it and start my rail bands from the bottom band up and around onto the deck. I do each band to each side stepwise, so I’m sure to keep things symmetrical. I end up with three deck bands, and one tuck band, plus the vertical template band that has the rail apex in the center of it.
I wasn’t very confident about it, but I got an order for 5 “boards” for a restaurant that, well… didn’t have to work, so I just decided to take the leap and give it a shot. Now I’m starting to get the knack of it, and it cuts down on shaping time for sure.