I’m noticing the use of belt sanders in shaping, and also a squarer tail rail meaning less foiling of the tail area decktop rails (approx. 18") on LOST, Sharp Eye, etc. shortboards. Do you guys use belt sanders to shape your outline, shape wings, thin tails/noses, etc? Also 9" softdisk sanders for shaping foils and thining tails/noses. Are they worth the added efficiency/accuracy? Seems like smoothing outlines with a belt sander/220 belt would be great if your careful about top to bottom squareness!
I’m noticing the use of belt sanders in shaping, and also a squarer tail > rail meaning less foiling of the tail area decktop rails (approx. > 18") on LOST, Sharp Eye, etc. shortboards. Do you guys use belt > sanders to shape your outline, shape wings, thin tails/noses, etc? Also > 9" softdisk sanders for shaping foils and thining tails/noses. Are > they worth the added efficiency/accuracy? Seems like smoothing outlines > with a belt sander/220 belt would be great if your careful about top to > bottom squareness! Replace the best tool for the job with one less efficient? I have a belt sander and wouldn’t ever think of touching foam with it. I see supposed hero shapers using sanders as if they were some kind of accurate tool for attacking foam. I occasionally will use a sander on really tight nose flip or to clean the center of the deck or bottom if it has chipped badly, but I never get it close to the rail line. If you look at boards that have been completely sanded by machine you will see 4 indentations where the heads of the shaping stands were. The blank being flexible, bends under the sander, but stands ridgid under the stands and sands away faster there. I call other shapers on this and their reply usually is,“yeh, but only you would see that”. Do it right or don’t do it at all. Dips and bumps aren’t on the price list. http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
Replace the best tool for the job with one less efficient? I have a belt > sander and wouldn’t ever think of touching foam with it. I see supposed > hero shapers using sanders as if they were some kind of accurate tool for > attacking foam. I occasionally will use a sander on really tight nose flip > or to clean the center of the deck or bottom if it has chipped badly, but > I never get it close to the rail line. If you look at boards that have > been completely sanded by machine you will see 4 indentations where the > heads of the shaping stands were. The blank being flexible, bends under > the sander, but stands ridgid under the stands and sands away faster > there. I call other shapers on this and their reply usually is,“yeh, > but only you would see that”. Do it right or don’t do it at all. Dips > and bumps aren’t on the price list. although i don’t have a ton of experience i totally agree. when a cabinet maker needs to true up a plank they use a jointer since it is the most accurate tool to take off the high spots until they are level with the low spots. it is basically the same thing as we use except our planer is upside down and smaller with a handle, and cheaper, etc. the planer allows a set depth of cut with the surface leading into the blades and the trailing surface is level with the cutter so that the base will glide along the surface which was just machined and maintain the relationship of the leading surface to the foam. a sander can do none of this so even if you could get an end result that was as good as the planer it would probably take ten times as long due to the amount of measuring and checking you would have to do. also in that shaping 101 video jc says that the planer is the most accurate tool you have but i think he was comparing it to the surform in that case. just my two cents. trev Trev
Sanders seem to cause more damage to foam than there worth.A year or so ago some one tried to convince me in using a disk sander to take down CNC’d blanks(computer shapes).All I found was it caused alot more work!Herb.
I’m with the experts here. I like using a belt sander for hollowing out deck flips. Planer surfaces are flat, so you can’t get the blades into the concave deck surface. But the curves of belt sander end rollers are too tight. You end up with gouges if you aren’t careful. Changing planer surfaces with curved ones would be difficult. But adding a curved wood surface to a planer’s under-belt surface wouldn’t be so hard… a smooth curve which would fit into a deck concave, but not stretch the belt so much. Glue it to the under-belt surface, cover it with metal flashing and start planing. Has anybody tried it?>>> Replace the best tool for the job with one less efficient? I have a belt > sander and wouldn’t ever think of touching foam with it. I see supposed > hero shapers using sanders as if they were some kind of accurate tool for > attacking foam. I occasionally will use a sander on really tight nose flip > or to clean the center of the deck or bottom if it has chipped badly, but > I never get it close to the rail line. If you look at boards that have > been completely sanded by machine you will see 4 indentations where the > heads of the shaping stands were. The blank being flexible, bends under > the sander, but stands ridgid under the stands and sands away faster > there. I call other shapers on this and their reply usually is,“yeh, > but only you would see that”. Do it right or don’t do it at all. Dips > and bumps aren’t on the price list.
As far as cleaning up outlines, 2 things: Learn to get very close to your pencil line without touching it when using your saw, and secondly, learn to use your planer for getting the outline exact. You can use your planer for all but extreme nose flips if you turn it almost perpendicular to the stringer. Shaping with a disc is inaccurate. Cleaning up rail bands is ok IF you use no coarser than 80 grit and use a THICK AND SOFT pad. I made one out of foam rubber attatched to a Power Pad. Your planer is your best friend!!! Don’t let it scare you. Use shallow cuts. aloha!!
A clarification of my previous post: use of disc sander for cleaning rail bands; this is not referring to the rails themselves, but the light banding ridges on the deck or the bottom if shaping an old style longboard with convex bottom. Rail shaping with a disc sander is inaccurate. You would aquire the nickname of “Lumpy” in the shaping world. aloha!
I’ve made stumbled along mowin’ foam using ‘Shaping 101’ as my instructor. Then I got bit lucky and was able to meet some excellent craftsmen. I’ve had the pleasure meeting Herb, examining his craftmanship and was amazed at the quality he puts out of his garage. I just recently had a small tutorial with Jim ‘The Genius’ Phillips and he showed me what a planer can do in skilled hands. He shaped a 9 footer in a short amount of time using very small cuts. He demonstrated that the old adage of using the right tool for the job is absolutely correct. I guess another way to put it would be: ‘It ain’t the club son, it’s your golf swing…’ By the way, Jim has some amazing stuff in his shop. The balsa boards, long boards and short boards are all beautiful works of art. If I were to ever purchase a stick again instead of making my own it would either be a Phillips or a 'charged Spitzer. Aloha, Magoo. http://http://molasar.blackmagic.com/ses/book/ch5.html
Sanders seem to cause more damage to foam than there worth.A year or so > ago some one tried to convince me in using a disk sander to take down > CNC’d blanks(computer shapes).All I found was it caused alot more > work!Herb. Herb, I watch 2 of the other shapers here use the sander on the machine blanks, then pick up the sanding block and start over. Using just the sanding block, I come out about 3 minutes ahead of them, but hell that’s the way they want to do it! The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
I’m with the experts here. I like using a belt sander for hollowing out > deck flips. Planer surfaces are flat, so you can’t get the blades into the > concave deck surface. But the curves of belt sander end rollers are too > tight. You end up with gouges if you aren’t careful.>>> Changing planer surfaces with curved ones would be difficult. But adding a > curved wood surface to a planer’s under-belt surface wouldn’t be so > hard… a smooth curve which would fit into a deck concave, but not > stretch the belt so much. Glue it to the under-belt surface, cover it with > metal flashing and start planing.>>> Has anybody tried it? Noodle, there is a frame for belt sanders for cabinet work, it keeps the sander from tipping and causing gouges. http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
Herb, I watch 2 of the other shapers here use the sander on the machine > blanks, then pick up the sanding block and start over. Using just the > sanding block, I come out about 3 minutes ahead of them, but hell that’s > the way they want to do it! The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. …Jim, you hit that nail on the head! The golf swing anology fits to a tee! (No, I’m not trying to be “punny”.) – Ozzy
I’ve made stumbled along mowin’ foam using ‘Shaping 101’ as my instructor. > Then I got bit lucky and was able to meet some excellent craftsmen. I’ve > had the pleasure meeting Herb, examining his craftmanship and was amazed > at the quality he puts out of his garage. I just recently had a small > tutorial with Jim ‘The Genius’ Phillips and he showed me what a planer can > do in skilled hands. He shaped a 9 footer in a short amount of time using > very small cuts. He demonstrated that the old adage of using the right > tool for the job is absolutely correct. I guess another way to put it > would be: ‘It ain’t the club son, it’s your golf swing…’ By the way, Jim > has some amazing stuff in his shop. The balsa boards, long boards and > short boards are all beautiful works of art. If I were to ever purchase a > stick again instead of making my own it would either be a Phillips or a > 'charged Spitzer. Aloha, Magoo. My grandfather would alway’s say. " A craftsman is only as good as his tools"
My grandfather would alway’s say. " A craftsman is only as good as > his tools" I can dig that. One of the things that Jim mentioned was that it doesn’t pay to have cheap tools. He has had the same hand saw for decades. The golf comment was made to me many moons ago by my father-in-law as he was trying to teach me how to play the hit-the-little-white-ball-and-then-go-find-it game…
I can dig that. One of the things that Jim mentioned was that it doesn’t > pay to have cheap tools. He has had the same hand saw for decades. The > golf comment was made to me many moons ago by my father-in-law as he was > trying to teach me how to play the > hit-the-little-white-ball-and-then-go-find-it game… Magoo, That’s a game I gave up in 1977(hitting that little white dimpled thingy) Maybe someday I’ll take you up on that offer and we will surf all those spot’s on the left coast. Stay well and keep on surfing. R.I. surfer
Magoo,>>> That’s a game I gave up in 1977(hitting that little white dimpled thingy) > Maybe someday I’ll take you up on that offer and we will surf all those > spot’s on the left coast. Stay well and keep on surfing.>>> R.I. surfer Hi, my name is Magoo and I’m a Swayholic… I still make a fool of myself with them funny clubs on a regular basis. It makes a client happy when you hack up a fairway. As for the offer it will always be open. Here is something that I think of regularly while I’m on the links: If the dimples help that damn ball fly farther, would it help the bottom of a stick go faster over the water? I recall reading something in Surfer/ing (?) in the early Eighties regarding someone trying it with a mechanical process – maybe a first generation shaping machine? I hated Physics. Anyway I never read any sort of follow-up on it, so I put it to my fellow Swayholics. Has anyone experimented with this? As an FYI: I heard that Southwest has roundtrip tickets to Florida for $112.00 good for 300 days until 10/14. Haven’t checked it out myself but I’ll be gettin’ some. If the East Coast cost model is similar you may be able to score that trip to the Left Coast for a similar amount. We actually may be able to organize that Swaylocks Expo that Herb brought up… Magoo
Hi, my name is Magoo and I’m a Swayholic… I still make a fool of myself > with them funny clubs on a regular basis. It makes a client happy when you > hack up a fairway. As for the offer it will always be open. Here is > something that I think of regularly while I’m on the links: If the dimples > help that damn ball fly farther, would it help the bottom of a stick go > faster over the water? I recall reading something in Surfer/ing (?) in the > early Eighties regarding someone trying it with a mechanical process – > maybe a first generation shaping machine? I hated Physics. Anyway I never > read any sort of follow-up on it, so I put it to my fellow Swayholics. Has > anyone experimented with this? As an FYI: I heard that Southwest has > roundtrip tickets to Florida for $112.00 good for 300 days until 10/14. > Haven’t checked it out myself but I’ll be gettin’ some. If the East Coast > cost model is similar you may be able to score that trip to the Left Coast > for a similar amount. We actually may be able to organize that Swaylocks > Expo that Herb brought up… Magoo i could be wrong but i think the classic northshore Willis brothers duo shaped boards a few years ago with that exact idea, a dimpled bottom ala’ a golf ball. no idea how they worked but thought it was a creative experiment.
i could be wrong but i think the classic northshore Willis brothers duo > shaped boards a few years ago with that exact idea, a dimpled bottom ala’ > a golf ball. no idea how they worked but thought it was a creative > experiment. Several around here in the mid to late eighties, also the crossing groove thing too. The dimples were a great fad. But was wrong kind of animal. High speed air, not the same as low speed water. Was fun to play with though. – Ozzy
Hi, my name is Magoo and I’m a Swayholic… I still make a fool of myself > with them funny clubs on a regular basis. It makes a client happy when you > hack up a fairway. As for the offer it will always be open. Here is > something that I think of regularly while I’m on the links: If the dimples > help that damn ball fly farther, would it help the bottom of a stick go > faster over the water? I recall reading something in Surfer/ing (?) in the > early Eighties regarding someone trying it with a mechanical process – > maybe a first generation shaping machine? I hated Physics. Anyway I never > read any sort of follow-up on it, so I put it to my fellow Swayholics. Has > anyone experimented with this? As an FYI: I heard that Southwest has > roundtrip tickets to Florida for $112.00 good for 300 days until 10/14. > Haven’t checked it out myself but I’ll be gettin’ some. If the East Coast > cost model is similar you may be able to score that trip to the Left Coast > for a similar amount. We actually may be able to organize that Swaylocks > Expo that Herb brought up… Magoo Hey Magoo, the Willis Bros. and others had dimple bottom boards, their’s was called the phazer. I built one, made a router temp that suspended the router and it cold move like a pendulum. I moved it around to all the places that I wanted the pockets to be and wound up with a surfing golf ball. Guess what? glass does NOT like to lay into little concave depressions. I had to slit each one with a razor blade in an X pattern then cut little circles of glass to lay over those, whew! The customer didn’t have any break throughs in his surfing, he couldn’t float like a butterfly. It cost me a small fortune for the sander and polisher to work on it. I was a dedicated follower of fashion. http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
Thanks Jim. I was wondering about the resin issues as well but didn’t communicate them. Thanks for the info. How was Swamis the other day? Just got out of the fog up here today – fun at dawn, but the tide has pretty much shut it down. Magoo
Hey Magoo, the Willis Bros. and others had dimple bottom boards, their’s > was called the phazer. I built one, made a router temp that suspended the > router and it cold move like a pendulum. I moved it around to all the > places that I wanted the pockets to be and wound up with a surfing golf > ball. Guess what? glass does NOT like to lay into little concave > depressions. I had to slit each one with a razor blade in an X pattern > then cut little circles of glass to lay over those, whew! The customer > didn’t have any break throughs in his surfing, he couldn’t float like a > butterfly. It cost me a small fortune for the sander and polisher to work > on it. I was a dedicated follower of fashion. …Jim, actually it was a much simpler process to glass the dimples. A real head slapper. I can’t say cause it was someone else’s trick. I won’t step on any bro-toes.