Single Fin late takeoffs

General Discussion
1

I've been commited to riding a new single fin shortboard for the last month or so.  It is flat rockered and wide (6'0'' x 15'' x 20'' x 15.5'').  Experiments with fins continue, but I've been messing around with stuff between 6'' and 7'' in depth.  The board is fantastic in general, but I've been struggling in one specific area and I'm wondering if it's "the plane or the pilot" (the ultimate answer is probably some of both, but indulge me here).

Now, in ledgy, throwing beach break I'm having some trouble taking off behind the peak in the steep section.  I'm talking about the type of takeoff where you go over the ledge late and really insert the whole rail to make the drop.  I've consistently had the experience of my tail drifting/sliding down the wave face in this situation.  The effect is especially disconcerting as the lip throws over your head and you realize a good little barrel section is about to be turned into a yard sale.  I've had this problem with the 6'' and 7'' fins. 

This sort of take off is generally gravy on a rail finned board.  However, I've seen plenty of crazy takeoffs on WAY heavier waves on singles in videos, so I wonder what's happening here. 

Perhaps its the tail width?  Perhaps I need to go towards an 8'' inch fin in these conditions?  Perhaps I should just get back on my shortboard?  Perhaps I just suck? 

What is the diagnosis on the late drop tail drift?

 

hb

2

The tail dimensions are fine.   The fin dimensions seem short to me.     I think an 8 inch fin will solve your problem.    There was a time when ''sideslipping'' was all the rage, and for that purpose a 7 inch fin was the ticket.  (when that was what you wanted to do) The ''normal'' fin of the early '70's was a high aspect ratio 8 inch glass fin.    The ideal for a single fin board, is to have a fin box that allows fore/aft fin adjustment.    Absent that, changing fin depth is your only option.

3

I have a 5'10 "pumpkin seed" type single that I love. Near same dimensions as yours except the widest point is 20.5". I had the same problem as you, and felt the fin disengage and the tail would pop out of the wave when I took off in steeper , juicy conditions. Listen to Thrailkill, he knows his stuff, and is a big help. a deeper fin will help you out. I moved my fin back in the box until I found the right spot and then marked it, but you probably need a bigger fin, mine was 7.75"

also, something I do with a new single fin board to which I am unfamiliar with is take my fin and lay it on its side so the base is along the stringer. then I move it up or down until about a quarter of the fin is hanging off the rail. I surf it and then adjust placement accordingly. make sure you mark the box for reference.

good luck

4

Thanks for that, I need to give it a try.  I've got a 7'-6" relaxed rocker rounded pin egg-ish 5-fin bonzer with the same problem.  The tail tends to spin out in hollow waves and late takeoffs - as in, I weight the inside rail and it just blows out from under me.  Other than that, its a great board, I love it, fun and fast.  Dunno why I didn't think of it - need to try a bigger fin.  Its got a 7" IIRC.  I just figured with all those bonzer fins I didn't need much center fin. 

Definitely rides more like a single fin than a rail finned board, even 'tho its got those 4 bonzer fins.  I'm new to bonzers so its still a learning experience for me.   I'll put a bigger fin in, and see what happens.  Sometimes I miss the obvious truth and then when I read it on Swaylocks its like a curly-Q light bulb goes on hahaha.  Of course, there's always that "maybe I'm just a kook" thing going on, since I'm going through my second gremmie-hood after a 23 year hiatus from surfing plus being old enough to qualify as ageing disgracefully LOL.

5

15.5 is pretty damn wide for the tail on a 6’ single fin. Best solution is bigger fin, placed back further. I’d go with an 8 or 8.5 with moderate to skinny surface area. Not some big 'ol longboard type fin, mind you.

6

 trues ames velzy classic..

works for me

7

 

Usually when I see singles with a modestly wide tail like that sliding it’s because the rails have sharp edges on them.  Hard to say without seeing the board, but I don’t think it’s a fin issue. I have ridden singles with tails much wider than yours with a 7’‘.  My zap has a 17’’ tail and it has a 7’’ fin and it doesn’t drift at all.

8

just wanted to comment that I love drops like that which you’ve mentioned.

 

9

Fins do make a big difference but and it’s a big BUT –

The way board rocker is foiled makes as much difference in overall control

in late take offs and overall maneuverable control than any other part of

the performance picture. I have struggled with numerous fins on some

of my boards and found that no matter what I did the board was always

going to be a bowser. I’ve had others that insist on going sideways on

a late drop no matter what fin combination I put on them.

It all had to do with rocker I’m sure. With this said –

Fin placement, depth, foil, rake, & and sweep all play a signicant part.

 

Aloha, Rich

10

I went for a surf after the last post.  Chest high sand bank tubes.  Packed about 6 good ones, so I'm properly stoked for a work day.  No drift failures, which was nice.  Of course, the surf wasn't nearly as big and powerful as last night (when I really had some issues). 

I'm encouraged by Bill T's remarks.  I was hoping experience would chime in to this effect. 

Solo:  the tuck/lower rail profile is rather like a normal shortboard, with a crisp edge from about a foot from the tail and then progressively rolled to the nose.  Bottom is rolled to flat to vee.

I didn't shape this one, so it is not usually too 'ideosyncratic.'

I have a fin thread going on this board as well.  I have two fins on order for the board at present:

7'' larry allison pivot flex (template resembles 4a).

7.125'' halcyon mental

Looks like I need to borrow a good 8''er.  Maybe like an L-flex.

Like gnar, I love this type of drop.  It's really the only way to get barrelled around here, for the most part.  I'm starting to wince when I set the setup, so hopefully a bit more fin will do the trick.

hb

11

G'day , 'The Boys ' !!

 

well, MINE is pretty much your dimensions . Except the tail , thankfully , is pulled in from around where thruster fins would normally be on a shortboard . This has made a difference for me . My other wide-tailed boards DO tend to drift , not surprisingly . [I only weigh 61kgs, though ...I remember that you are a bigger guy?]

 

  but it has rocker , finer , sharper rails , a nice foil.

 

  i have used it with a 7" fin , no problems , right back in the fin box.  How far up / back is the trailing edge of your fin ? [it 'may' be too far forward ...i notice a lot of you guys in america have your fin / finbox far up , compared to boards i have had here [west oz] .

 

a bit of rake in the fin has helped me get length in my turns , too...in the absence of the ..er...'thrust' / hold / squirt of thruster or sidebite fins !

 

  of course , with me , the experimenting continues !

 

     ...the one difference I DO find , riding a 6'er again [i'm often riding a 6'6 , very wide , Walden , or my 6'11 thruster , or my 9'4 [single finned] mal ] ....PADDLE harder / extra paddles needed , to get ON  the wave , even WHEN it is hollow [as it IS here , with shallow banks , this time of year.  ]

 

I sometimes do the double paddle, "mal style" , for that extra burst of speed to get on the waves. Personally , a 7" fin on a 6' board is as big as I have ever needed to go . [but that's cause I don't ride "double o/h O.B. " hahah like a certain Lee claimed to ....hahahhh ]

 

anyways , mate , good to see you on here again !

 

 ...how have you been ??!

 

  cheers and keep surfing , and EXPERIMENTING !

 

ben

12

 

Ha Ha…I actually have one of Larry’s pivot flex in my zap also.  I like it.  No harm in trying different fins. Everyone surfs differently.  All the best.

13

hi the boys !

 

i sent you a pm ,

 

  but this question , is for the forum...

 

 what is the tail shape ?

 

[ and , IF square , or rounded square , how WIDE is it from corner to corner of the tail tip ['pod'] ?]

 

  cheers

 

  ben

 

p.s. -  we need PHOTOS , mate ...PHOTOS !!  ....of the board , the fin[s] , your waves ...and as I mentioned in the 'p.m.' , maybe if you can get filmed [for your OWN  benefit] , THAT will save a lot of speculating .....

14

curious why you’re going with a flex fin for ledgey waves? i’d want as much direct input with a stiff fin rather than the lag/flex response of a flex fin.

 

 

15

What about a fin like the Swoop 6.75"?  Those seem to hold pretty well and they are so long that they tend to stick out past the tail…

16

[quote="$1"]

curious why you're going with a flex fin for ledgey waves? i'd want as much direct input with a stiff fin rather than the lag/flex response of a flex fin.

[/quote]

BINGO !   This is a quote worthy of attention.

17

You have a total of five fins?  The drift you’re feeling might not be your typical (and bitchin’ if you’re frontside) single-fin drift. You’ve got four too many fins to drift but plenty to spin if you’re trying to turn too far forward. Might want to concentrate on keeping your foot far enough back to drive that bonzer.

 

Q

18

Heh heh-- That’s Huckleberry’s bonzer.

I’ve been riding singles and modified singles for always. I’ve found that, for me, some waves are not great for singles like waves that I have to top-turn on take-off to make it down the line because they’re too slope-y to bottom turn and project down the line. I spin-out alot on those waves.

Q

19

single fins are not the best tool for late takeoffs.  the lack of side fins means that if you are air dropping sideways, you have no side fin to catch when you connect again. singles usually have lower rocker more volume (not as easy to manipulate in tight situations). Heres the skinny - get in early behind the bowl, set up your line and thread that tube! utilize the strength of the design instead of trying to fix its inherent weaknesses. obviously fin selection and placement can make a huge difference in holding power and manuverability, and a bigger fin will help from sliding out.  7.5" to 8" with a lot of rake is what I like for a single fin shortboard but this is very subjective.

20

[quote="$1"]

You have a total of five fins?  The drift you're feeling might not be your typical (and bitchin' if you're frontside) single-fin drift. You've got four too many fins to drift but plenty to spin if you're trying to turn too far forward. Might want to concentrate on keeping your foot far enough back to drive that bonzer.

[/quote]

No drift - not sure where that idea came from, maybe the op.  But sometimes on a late takeoff or a hollow section, I'll weight heavy on the inside rail, thinking it will bite and project down the line like the fish I used to ride, but instead it just releases from the wave, and flips right out from under me.  Doesn't happen often, but its disconcerting when it does.  I originally wanted a bigger fin, but they didn't have the fin I wanted at the sacred craft show, and I wanted to ride the board that weekend, so I bought a 7".  I figured with all those bonzer fins I could get by with a smaller fin, and it does just fine, except in certain situations.  I think I just need to try a bigger fin.