I converted 2 boards to quads and just had a chance to try them in decent waves.
I used Robin Mair’s quad setup for the boxes on both boards. The yellow bottom board is 5-10 old style diamond tail and the blue round pin is 6-6. Both started life as single fins, but I wasn’t too happy with their performance.
I used several fins from Ben Chipper on the yellow board, but I found the current setup worked pretty good. There are bigger fins in the back compared to smaller fins and I found that it held better. Felt like riding a fish, but it didin’t have that feeling that the board would break loose if I pushed too hard. Very happy with the results, but being that I hadn’t been out for a while or on a small board for several months, paddling the 5-10 was a problem.
The 6-6 has a set of Robin Mair’s quads and I must say that it just brought that board to life. The board has tremendous drive and holds like a roller coaster. Lots of speed and no bogging. Felt like my Griffin 5-fin fish. I think this board would handle as big a wave as I can catch with no problem. The 5-10 would be better in head high since it’s much looser.
So, a big mahalo to Ben (Chipfins) and Robin Mair for their help. I don’t think I’ll be riding short singles anymore. The quads work much better.
mahalo a nui loa for that.I have been having trouble backside on bumpy and big north shore waves this winter(no problem when smooth faces) on my 7.0 Joel Tudor diamond tail single fin.I have been thinking of making it into a 2+1,but have been hesitating because it’s such a beautiful classic board.But very frustrating when you wipeout on a set wave,and you just know you would have made it on your other boards.I tried bigger fins,but still,not so good.Gotta face it,I’m no Joel Tudor,sigh.Now that I see your quad transformation,wondering if quad would be the way instead of 2+1.
Robin sent me instructions for where to place the fins for a 6-6. I’ll post them up tomorrow. I don’t have the exact dims for my boards. I’ll get that tomorrow as well. I’d say that it’s about 20 1/2 wide at the most, maybe 20, and about 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 thick.
They both have flat bottoms and tucked under rails, and the 6-6 has slightly thinner rails. The 5-10 is a bit thicker at the rail, and it’s stringerless PU, so I glassed it heavy. Either double 4 top and bottom or double 4 bottom and 6 + 4 top, with generous wrap to keep it from snapping.
I like boards with the wide point forward of center. I get a lot of
drive out of turns from that. I like to go as fast as I can so I can
make it down through sections and all the way to the end of a wave.
I have been very happy with Robin’s quad setup. Previously I had the back fins closer to the center, but Robin likes his closer to the rail, and the distance between front and back is about 7/8" (I think). My other quads have a bit more distance between front and back fins.
I can’t say how much of a factor Robin’s fins are, but I am very happy with the way they work. I haven’t tried other fins on the 6-6, but I did try several fins on the 5-10 and I like the control I got from the bigger fins. I haven’t tried Robin’s fins on any of my other boards either, but I have another 6-6 with a wider rounder tail that will get his quad setup soon. I hope I get the same results.
With the nice little swell we’re getting I had a chance to catch a few with faces that were maybe 6-8 feet high at take off, and over head along the wall. The board felt very good off the bottom, off the top and making nice big cutbacks. I didn’t have to work hard to make the board do what I wanted. Just made me so happy that I could get so much performance from a board I made.
The other day I hit the top of a really small wave when it closed out and caught a little air. It caught me off guard because I wasn’t trying to do that. I was planning to glance off the top. I think the extra bit of acceleration that the fins generate caused me to turn a little harder than I thought. I managed to get through, but it really jerked me when I landed. Gotta be happy when you pull off that kind of stuff, but man my back was a bit tweaked for the rest of the day. Thought I might have pulled a muscle.
Robin sent me a diagram with the distance from tail and the tow in for the boxes. The tow is different fro the front and back and the cant is also different. I think I have 6 and 4 degrees of cant.
I also have the G10, and I wanted them for the extra strength. I like to turn hard off the bottom and when I do big cutbacks I like to push real hard as well. The first day I used the board I tried a couple of really hard turns and the board took off and I fell off the back twice. Now I keep my weight forward and lower in my stance and I’m ready for that.
Here’s Robin’s quad box setup diagram. We talked about the distance of the rears from the edge and his comment was that having the rear fins closer to the stringer makes the board perform more like a thruster. Having them closer to the rail allows the board to run a bit more. I was concerned that having fins clustered along the rail would make the board too loose, but it isn’t. Both boards are loose but don’t spin like an old style fish does. Very solid feeling when I turn, but lots of drive and speed.
Note that the tow in is based on different lengths. The front uses a longer line segment for the triangle used to get the tow in.
As time goes by and the summer swells come in, I’ll be playing with an assortment of fins Chipfins (Ben Chipper) sent me. I plan on using my 5-10 and another 6-6 for the testing. The 6-6 is a thruster now, so I can see how that feels going from 3 to 4 fins with the adjustments that the probox allows. I may even try using my Griffin g10 fins on the blue 6-6 to see how they compare to Robin’s fins. I think the board will be much looser with the smaller normal looking trailing fins.
One comment Robin said about these new back fins is that he thought they felt like they were helping to steer the board. In time I hope to be able to tell if that is noticeable.
Anyone else in Honolulu is welcome to try some of the fins Ben sent me. They have FCS type tabs so FCS and proboxes will work. There’s a post here "Thank you Ben Chipper that should show the fins he sent.
No problems. When I first installed the boxes I thought they were too far forward, but after riding both boards, I have no complaints.
Robin emailed me and said he was in LA waiting for a flight to Aus. and he’ll be there for a month. Not sure where, but he’s a great guy and has a lot of insight on board design.
I did not put the fins as far forward as Robin suggested because it originated as a thruster but I kept the cluster as Robin suggested. I buckled the board twice in quick succession on the same swell so I didn’t ride it much. One of those times was immediately after installing and an awkward winter day where it was probably a little silly to be in at this particular spot and stupid to be on a board with untried fin characteristics. Nevertheless it paid off. Despite the fins looking so different from the norm I had zero unhappy suprises. Totally dependable on some nasty drops. No feeling of quirkyness.Unfortunately I didn’t do too many manoeuvers and was rather glad when the board buckled and I could get out.
The dims of the blue board are 6-6, nose is 13.5 at 12" and the tail is 13.5 at 12" the wide point is 20 3/8 and it is about 1 inch forward of center. Max thickness is 2 3/4".
Rode it again today in decent overhead waves and it is amazing. I can’t be happier with it right now. Probably the best riding board I’ve made so far. Amazing what a simple change did to the board.
Can you confirm that with these shaped fins you will not have the rear of the base at 1" from the rail when installed in the board. This is due to the shape of fins not having the usual ‘overhang’ at the base. Especially so with the rear Hammer type fins. I am interpreting this to suggest that the interaction of the fin base and the rail is other than that with a more traditional fin.
Can you also tell me what is the distance between the front of the front fin and the front of the rear fin (at the base) when both fins are centred in the box and also what is the overlap of the 2 fins (bulb of rear hammer and rear edge of eliptical front).
I set the boxes so that the front of the base of the fin is at the distance the diagram specifies. I was concerned that they may be too far forward, so I set the boxes such that the fins would be all the way at the front of the box. I have lots of room to move them back, but I have had such a great time riding this board that I don’t think I’ll move them. If anything I’ll try different fins to see how much better these fins are. The hammer fins do stretch back quite a bit, but when I paddle the board backwards over the shallow reef, I don’t see them sticking out. Since they are forward in the box, they would not be 1" from rail, but they aren’t that far off.
With standard looking fins or with the 747 style fins Ben Chipper sent on the second board I did this setup on, the fins look like they are kind of forward. But I have not had any issues with either board loosing grip. The quad setup seems to work well in a wide range of waves. My friend was out the other day on a 7’ quad fish and he said he liked the way the quads handle when the waves aren’t really strong.
The waves were running anywhere between head high to 1 1/2 times OH. I had a couple very late diagonal take offs where I was stroking to get into position and wasn’t quite pointed in. The board held nicely and I was able to pull it off. I had a couple where guys messed up and I just had enough time to spin around and barely get in. The board handled every time. I was able to play around with positioning of my rear foot and got a couple really rad top turns with my foot far back. Just about everything I wanted to do I did. I think I was surfing more radically yesterday than I have since I last rode my Griffin fish in good waves. I don’t use grip pads so I don’t know if my foot is in the right spot everytime. I’m thinking about putting a grip pad on, but I haven’t liked them before.
Theres a video someone linked showing aerial footage in Aus. There’s a guy that gets going through the wave and makes it through all the sections doing nice tops turns and getting a lot of drive off the bottom. That’s exactly how the board is working. Great drive off the bottom, lots of speed to get around and turns so well.
Thanks for all the input on your quad. I’m planning on doing a quad pintail soon as well. How do you think the hammer fins work as opposed to a more standard template quad fins?
Brainy stuff. The crazier looking fins on the blue 6’6" and on WWMark’s rear set clear board look reminiscent of what we called “football fins” we used on sailboards duing the 80’s.
As we were all learning how to land from major airs, there was a lot of cavitation going on, which led us to many directions including football fins, cutaways, slot fins and canards aka forefins, also vastly improved foils.
Canards solved the spinout problem, along with learning how to land slightly off wind.
