There’s been a lot of talk lately about decreased nose rocker and increased tail rocker in HPSB’s… Rocker where you need it.
Stretch is even doing boards with equal amounts nose and tail!!!
I am planning on building a 6’4" daily driver. For the average, non-grovel, non-minigun days…
My previous 6’2" had 2 1/4" tail rocker and 5 1/4" nose rocker. I was thinking about going with 2 1/2" tail and 5" nose.
What do you all think? Should I go more extreme?
[quote="$1"] Should I go more extreme? [/quote]
No. Even less.
Hey Chris -
I say ignore all groovyness - no sleight on Stretch, but its a matter of paying attention to what you know about your own surfing, your local breaks and what you want to do in the name of personal surfing progression - realistically that is.
I have the same discussion going with a customer right now. I have'nt seen him surf, but I recently removed a tailpad from one of his trade-ins...
The rear block was'nt dirty. They rarely are, I notice. Both your stance and your style should be a big influence on your rocker choices.
Account for your foot size, position and how heavy-footed you are.
Excess tail rocker makes for a slower board...BUT - It increases the sharpness of your "Fall-Line". I.e - Bottom turns are sharp and early, slingshotting you vertical and then allowing a late and high top-turn/re-entry.
That means you fall back in from higher and steeper - a sharper burst of speed. But you have to have the energy, ability and balls for it - especially in a hollow wave, and you work harder to stay ahead.
Then there's wide-point and outline...arrgh I have a headache already!
JD
[quote="$1"]
Stretch is even doing boards with equal amounts nose and tail!!!
[/quote]
After xx years of reading swaylocks, i can tell you that ALL boards have equal amount nose and tail !!!
Yes, it is a poor joke, but true, it is just a matter of moving the rocker apex [u-oh] forward a lot.
Just put your board on a flat floor, and lift the tail up till it is as high as the nose- voila - equal amounts nose and tail, but with the rocker apex far forward.
***
I just dug -up an old EM from a sways regular who said:
Nose 1' 2' center 2' 1' Tail
5'' 1 13/16'' 9/16'' 0 3/8'' 1 1/4 2 3/8''
This is a performance rocker for good surfers, works best when board is pushed rail-to-rail by the rider.
Thanks Josh, that makes good sense. I’m definitely no Mick Campbell…
What you said makes the case for incremental changes from a known base.
Hmmm I’ll have to think some more about that.
I have a few questions. Fin layout? Width, thickness and tail style would help me understand what would complement your choice in rockers.
Lets say a basic 6’4 x 19 x 2 3/8 thumb tail 5x box 4 3/4 x 2 1/2 lots of single to double barrel. Quads a little more.Thruster a little less. A lot of things come into play and can make a deference in rocker. The deeper the concave between your feet the less the flatter your bottom the more rocker.
When ya shape in deep concave you create more rail rocker which can compensate for less rocker allowing the board to feel loose yet still maintain drive out of turns. A flat bottom and flatter rail rocker more island style would like less concave and would like a little more rocker at the tips. Wider tails more rocker narrow tails less.
This is just a basic concept to formulate and design. Not saying its what another person believes or would work best. Just something to think about.
Balance in design is an ongoing theory.
Haha, yah, I guess you’re right. I definitely didn’t want to drag back up the “apex” argument. =P
If I understand correctly his current rockers on at least some of his boards are “spherical”.
In other words, just a segment of a circle. No kick or flip. Just a segment of a circle…
BUT, he is shaping for guys that surf 100 times better than me…
Which takes me back to what Josh said. I’d do best to build for myself and what I know about my surfing and the boards that I tend to surf well on and not be swayed by what other folks are doing… I need to take a look at my last board, figure out what I like about it, what I don’t, decide what I’d like to be able to do better and design from there… I’m sure glad, I’m only building boards for myself. You pros must have a heck of a time figuring out what people want vs. what they need to help them get to where they, realistically, want to go.
Thanks for your input SanO… I’m thinking 6’4" x 19"-19 1/4" x 2 3/8". Swallow tail. Tail width right around 14 1/2"…
I really like Griffin’s 5 fin setup but am starting to miss the thruster feel on some days. Lillibel built a board recently that had an extra FCS plug in the center and allowed for both. I was planning on stealing that idea… Single to double sounds good. If I go that route, I’ll probably keep them pretty mild.
A tri/quad design will give the best of both worlds. If it fast and down the line yet flat faced quad. When it gets more pocket surfing tri. I tend to add width in the tail on 5x then I would in a tri. I have seen GG boards and he leans more island style. When you’re designing your local surf shows in how ya designs. I never had a Cali board I liked in the islands as much as I did a local shaper was making. When ya have the juice you don’t need to create it like you do say her or even on the East coast. Its like if I was in the islands I would love GG 5x perhaps more there then I would here. Then again thats me. It’s all theory and personal preference.
Good luck
I think Sanolocal has a good point. I believe boards need to be tailored to the places it will be used. I only surfed Cali once back in 1980, the waves at HB didn’t have any push compared to what I normally rode in Hawaii.
I’ve gotten away with less than 3 inches in the nose and less than 2 down to 1 1/2 in the tail. They are great for long drawn out turns that cover quite a bit of distance and go fast. Not so great at times because the nose will dig in on some drops before you even can catch the wave. Being from the generation of single fin Hawaiian semi gun style boards, the flatter single fins I have are like going back in time.
I also have a couple with more of an even flow and equal in the nose and tail. They fit nicely in the rounder walls, but you do have to keep turning to generate speed, where the flatter boards will run like hell going straight down the line. The boards with more tail rocker are great for making lots of sharp turns on nice head high to a little over head high waves. I have a couple with similar dimensions, outlines and profiles, but with different rockers. The flatter tail rocker seems better in walled up waves, the other likes more playful waves.
Another thing is that I usually don’t use tail pads, so I don’t have a constant reference point for where my back foot is. I move around on my boards a lot, even on a 6’ board. I think that helps to make the board work for me. And, it’s been so long since I’ve ridden “pro” made thrusters regularly that I’ve forgotten what makes them special.
Hey Chris, I found after trying the board first as a quad, then as a 5 with the fins in line ala Griff, then as a 5 with the small center further back in the thruster position (CJs advice) and then finally as a thruster, I found I liked it best as… a thruster. That Simon just had a really good idea! I find I like the directional predictability of a center fin. Maybe that’s why I like the bonzer. It has that directional predictability, plus tons of drive, in my very limited experience more drive than any other design I’ve tried. Proabably has to do with the rail fins super long spread.
I didn’t like the board (the convertible) at all as a quad (maybe that’s why I gave you those fins ;). The quad would have moments of drive equal to the bonzer but would at other times feel tracky. My present bonzer might feel a bit tracky (I’m working on that), but the bonzer is predictably tracky whereas the quad would just sometimes get stuck on a rail and other times feel almost squirrely loose. Maybe if I stuck with it I figure it out…but, you know, after a few sessions with many weird moments versus other sessions where everything goes as planned…well, you choose the better feeling.
As far as the rocker thing, there’s something to be said for incremental reiterations. And then there’s something to be said for doing something extreme and either being happily surprised or at least you know what the feel of spherical rocker is and know you either hate it or you can work your way back to a good compromise. I
I’m hoping you do the extreme thing so you can report back…
Like me, I found I don’t like quads but am thinking of trying a twinzer because of the bbuzz at erBB. You never know until you try…
I accidently added about a 1/2" on one of my back ends and it was noticably different. Maybe on hollow, steep waves with power it would be okay, but in Florida, I was forced to ride it from the tail and had to constantly work to maintain speed. It was a shocking realization of just how much the impact was.
Hi Chris -
It may be worth considering more than total rocker as measured at the tips. There is a reason that some of the top hand shapers use rocker sticks or even templates to keep track of the overall rocker curve.
Some the fastest tail rockers I've ridden started about midpoint, then flattened out or even reversed slightly at the end. Concaves mixed in can make the effect more pronounced. I should mention that some of the fastest rockers I've ridden were also some of the most difficult to reverse direction or go vertical.
Here is a pic of an interesting tail rocker that was posted on Swaylocks recently by Mitch Chechik of Wavecraft. It makes the whole tail rocker measurement thing pretty complicated... do you measure the stringer rocker, the rail rocker, or the part between the stringer and rail?
If the latter, you see what appears(?) to be the reverse curvature that in my opinion creates a bit of extra lift back there.
Good question John. I always set my rocker while the bottom is flat before I add bottom contours. My bonzer sinker has 4-3/4" nose and 2-1/2" tail but it also has 1/8" single concave about midship and 1/8" vee in the tail, which very roughly makes the center line rocker a 1/4" less than the rail rocker…
I wonder how others rate their rockers.
Hi - It's also fun to drop a straight edge on the diagonal within the concaves to find perfectly straight sections in what appears to be a fully rockered tail.
I have read what ya wrote a few times to make sure I’m reading it right.
If your measure your rocker flat bottom and carve 1/8 out of the mid section you just lost a 1/8 of rocker and when you add 1/8 of vee you just created 3/8 of rail rocker. If you look at a profile view of a boards foil your mid point of the rail dropped 1/8 and the point of release was raised at the tail because of the vee added twisting the rail rocker adding 3/8. You just drooped and raised the point of release creating a 3/8 I believe. I’m not saying your wrong I’m just measuring it from a different point of view.
The one thing I do is carve in my bottom before I measure my rocker. That could be why I like a lower rocker.
I love flat keels or stringer rockers and lots of rail rocker I guess. I ride fishy boards that have wide straight outlines. Full nose and wide tails need added rail rocker to help them surf deeper in the pocket and square off the bottom and top easier.
These kind of post I like because it makes me look at why I do things the way I do. Questions that most surfers never even think about let alone understand
Trippy man!!. That is a total mind fuck to me. I've heard it said before, but seeing it, it just blows me out. Curves on curves equals flat!!
Cool pics Knowaloha! I’m with Beerfan… I’ve heard it said but never actually seen it.
Who shaped that one? MD or KB?
Lot’s of good food for thought here. Thanks for everyone’s input
