MD shapes all of my boards .
I do want to try one of Kirks shapes though .
The diagonal flats theoretically coincide better with the actual direction of water flow across the bottom. That photo illustrates perfectly.
Here’s my take:
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If beating sections and still surfing verticly is the name of the game = GG5
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Top to bottom surfing not much down the line? = thruster
Hahah, let me be the guinea pig right? =)
I have a Low Tech Lab experiment taking place right now...Longboards not Shortboards....no real data or stuff that would need to be sent to NASA...........
Two surfboards...both 9'3" x 23 x 3...same template.....close but not exact....One board lots of rocker...one board not much rocker..........WOW.............I guess I'm learning about shaping....
...Low rocker board paddles fast, trims well....not good for turning on the face or bottom turns...Great board...
...Big rocker board paddles fast only if you find the sweet spot..otherwise paddles slow...pushes water on take offs if not in sweet spot.... trims well and you can bottom turn without digging the nose....... my style says big rocker board...
I was ready to throw the Low Rocker board into the trash....when I compared my rocker to several rockers in a blank catalog I saw that the Low Rocker board was more mainstream......and the Big Rocker board was what most people do not ride...hmmm....and trust me... I don't care about any thing overhead......and I don't care about mainstream.....
Tail rocker!!!!!
no one really knows.make an alaia
Disclaimer, sorry if this is too detailed. Don’t mean to sound like a know-it-all. In all truth I really don’t know much, but we all have to develop our own theories. So if you give numbers I’ll give some back. I think the important thing to get is your basic set of rocker numbers that are personnal to you and adjust from there.
I think you should remeasure your 6’2" and find out how much entry rocker there is in the nose. Lower that number by an 1/8 or a 1/4" and keep your same tail rocker numbers as the board is going to be longer. Depending on your size and surfing 2 1/2 of tail rocker is on the high side for an adult inmho. I wouldn’t reduce your entry and increase your tail rocker over your normal board. It is going to give a weird feeling. If you do, do it in small increments like 1/8’s.
I’m 6’3" by 195lbs and old, so a 6’4" DD for average surf would be 5,1 1/4-1 1/2, 1, 2 1/8 nose to tail rocker numbers. In much better surf the entry is 1 5/8" minimum with more tail rocker dependng on tail and bottom shape. But this is what I call my base numbers. These are numbers that I know are average for me. Kind of like volume. I know what my base volume number is.
Something like a super groveler like a white diamond/dumpster diver would be more like 4, 1, 3/4, 2 on a 6’1" or 6’2". This is measured flat then a deep single concave is put in after. I stopped measuring my rocker after putting in bottom contours. Too complicated, especially with complex bottoms like singles to doubles, to vees or flats. I found myself concentrating on stringer rocker too much and forgot about rail line rocker. For me the rail line rocker is more important. The stringer line rocker in the tail is more about feel during a turn the rail is what makes the board go from point to point on the wave. If I get lucky and make a magic one then it gets measured every 6" then I compare it to the build sheet rocker numbers before the contours were put in.
I don’t put as much into the final nose rocker number as I used to. Its more of a signature and a way to reduce volume in the nose than an actual factor in how the board rides.
nose entry less then an inch even on barreling waves … tail about 2 and a half but you can flip it out to over three as long as the twelve inch point stays the same. cant buy a decent blank most plug designed is about an inch over rockered in the nose. designs are dated on close tolerence blanks. use a fish blank. i need to use a 6 7 fish to get a 6 ft hpsb
what would fin placement be on a board like that ?
flat or micro v bottom ?
deep single concave right out the tail. board short as you can ride with fins back at 3ish and 101/2 halfish . id have to check dat… the lower the tail rocker the board gets trackier in big surf a bit of flip loosens it back up whilst maintaining the lower 12 inch point for the planning speed. concave gives the rail more bight and also slows the board down a bit i rekon and keeps you in the pocket and higher on face. could all be bullshit tho. its a mystery to me. but i do know they lower the entry the better it all works. 25 mm is about right which is an inch and up to 30mm… but all these shortboard plugs with two inches of rocker entry should just be broken and chucked . small stiff fins that are thicker then the averge 6mm fcs
Sorry Paul - I love some good nose flip… with vee even. Barrels or not, if I’m paddling in some choppy, chunky, say with a bit of wind… I laugh at the guys blasting through the chop and complaining…
eeewww who surfs onshore?? lol. i honestly dont notice anything like that (chop) . flip in the nose is all good as long as the entry is an inch or under. the bananas of the 90s have had there time. imo they are pretty shit for pumping high lines . push water when paddlng and slow on the flats. VEE doesnt really make much sense to me to be honest. the lines im talking about are for front foot surfing btw. ive been flipping little beaks but i agree with Bill Thraikill with regards to nose rocker. 4 inches is about right and you can flip a little cockys beak another half inch or so at the end
…hello Paul Cannon, yes, you are right to use other plugs to obtain good rockers for HPSB; the problem comes with the overshaping in most cases.
Most plugs have bad rockers, too much curve…Im talking this…and Im a shaper who loves heavy tail rocker and kick tails in most designs, but still think that to fit right thickness and do not compromise the board, those curves are not the best…
who s are designing the plugs anyway?
…Hey Marsh, yes, I have them, but still I think most plugs have too much rocker; so if you use bigger plug to fit the rocker still you have the problem of too much thickness for a HPSB.
Also, there are some plugs that have the right thickness but too much rocker, so that s a problem.
I see that some plugs have too much rocker from middle point to tail.
I see these in several brands
Most of the problems if you use pro density foam, you do not have too much room before you compromise the board structure.
yeah reverb i entirely agree with you. the plugs are dated and havent kept up with modern front foot surfing that the young guys are doing . problem is that is why fish have been so popular cuz of the nose rocker is good and length is good… but outline and tails rockers are bad. but a hpsb is a better board to surf if the nose rocker is lower, and i think you are right bigger blanks and fish blanks end up overshaped. even more so if done by machine. how can a shaper compete with import when foam is poor and plug design is poor. as far as i know surfblanks do some lower rockers and a couple of bennets have lower entry but they are not close tolerence. as far as i know surfblanks have close tolerence with low entry and are high quality foam but i havent been able to buy them in new zealand
Interesting, Paul.
I’ll have to give it a run. An inch at 12 (or 6") from the nose and then some flip?
That’s quite a radical departure for me, but I’m prepared to give it a go.
I’m with you on the tail flip - loves late drops and free fall re-entries.
mmm tail flip sheds drive, and you say conny out the tail sheds speed, so a double whammy?
yeah so its 12 inches from the nose . about 25 mm to 30 mm entry and flip it in the last 3 to 4 inches
tail rocker is again low and then flips in the last few inches.
i cant fully comment on concave shedding speed mate. its only a theory. i do feel it provides what i call bite or hold and i think it does this by impeding flow. but that is a guess.
a combination of the deep single through the tail and fliped tail rocker gives the board the ability to turn shorter radius turn at maximum speeds rather then tracking and drawn out turns. by riding shorter you can have your front foot in the trim when you want and shift your weight from front to back foot to pivot off the tail without moving your feet. fins can be set right back to 3" because your stance doesnt have to shift or be to wide to surf off either foot. alot of guys tend to ride off the the tail and flick there boards around like 80s style . and to a degree you can get away with this style of surfing in top to bottom breaking waves but really its counter productive stlye of surfing most of the time IMO
people say about drive off the tail ., but for me drive comes from the front foot and the rail mainly . and this is by surfing rail to rail as high on the face as you can where you trim. this is why i surf short boards at my hight under or a couple of inches over for bigger surf (DOH +)
i have to say im a pretty average surfer at best but i do surf off the front foot and feel this is the path to progressive hotdog surfing
surfblanks 6’ 4’’ mo6 rocker get ya awfull close 12 ‘’ from nse a very important measurment it can all happen right there
cheers huie
Hey guys when you talk about over shaping you mean cutting a flater design out of a blank thats been glued up with more rocker than what you desired? Cutting too much into the nose and tail?
I see an over shaping problem where your using a fish/knee board blank that has a flat deck, its 23-24’’ wide you shape a board thats 6’0’’ x 19’’ wide, the deck of your design will have a lot more roll in it and you could potentially cut half an inch into the area where your heels going to go making a pretty weak board.
Did that make sense?
With all due respect Reverb don’t you think you just need to get the right rocker glued into the right blank for your design? The plugs are old (at midgets, barry and burfords) but they are not dated. Blanks can bend a fair bit when gluing up and if the 6’4’’ is too curvy for what you want you could have your curve glued into a 6’7’’ using more of the tail end of the blank?? Maybe I’m off track cause I don’t know what you are shaping.
I can’t get my head around the front and back foot surfing thing, your on your front foot pumping down the line or doing a bottom turn then your on your back foot doing a cut back or a re-entry? I’m not dissing the theory, I just can’t understand what people are talking about, your using both WTF??
Huie,
in your experience what have your found in shaping the non-natural rockers of the SB’s. I’m guessing that the natural rocker is the plug and a flatter custom rocker is just the stringer forcing the blank into a different curve. Are you seeing spring back when you thin the blank or are they holding the rocker?
We can get custom rocker service here and I’m ready to order my own rockers profiles. Been using a bunch of the 6 4 sbf’s only because they’re thick and flatter. Still too much tail rocker for a thicker board flatter board.
Thanks