"Surf Boards by Jacobs" #291 Help

General Discussion
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If you don’t want to read my novel, the primary purpose of this post is for me to get in touch with somebody who knows how to properly repair old boards in or around Orange County. I’d love to hear comments and experiences and see some before/after shots.

I’ve been a lurker here for awhile (mostly in the archives). I’ve wanted to build my own board, but I don’t have a place to do it just yet :slight_smile:

My goal: Have a classic rider for less then a good new board.

Why: Brings me back to an awesome day when I was a kid, which involved a road trip in a pristine 1940 Buick straight 8 woody, meeting Dale Velzy at his place in San Clemente, and an old Jacobs. Furthermore, I don’t have a big board and there are a few times a year when I wish I did (usually friends or family wanting to head down to San Onofre).

The Board: (Pictures at http://claudius.propro.com/Surfboard/)

“Surfboards by Jacobs” #291. When I first read the number I thought it was 168, then I realized upside down that could be 891. So I looked even closer and the 8 looks like how I would write an 8 and not a 2, but the line that makes the intersection in the middle is either faint or not there, making it a 2. For now I think it is 291 :slight_smile:

I figure Jacobs restarted his numbering after the Velzy split in 1959. Anybody have any insight on that or an estimate on how many boards Jacobs was making at that time? Just trying to get a better idea on when the board was made.

I bought the board from the wife of the original owner who recently passed away. She said he bought it in the late 50’s/early 60’s and that she doesn’t think it has been surfed since they were married in 1963. She said the increasing crowds bothered him so much he gave it up.

Overall the board is solid with a fair amount of yellowing. There are hardly any water spots which was a big plus for me and it was hard for me to find a classic board without for less then 500. I’ve named the board Cindy after Cindy Crawford. She is old with some imperfections and some people think she is ugly, but I still think she is hot as hell.

The nose, tail, and fin need some help. The nose and tail are both cracked pretty good, and the foam isn’t in the greatest shape where water would enter. The fin has stress cracks at the base, feels solid, but when I put pressure on it I can faintly hear that it isn’t solid. I want these issues fixed right the first time. I haven’t had any problems fixing little things on my newer shortboards, but fixing this thing (I’m particularly scared of fixing fins) is a whole new ballgame to me that I don’t want to risk screwing up. So I’d like to get some suggestions for who I should get a hold of to help me fix this up right. I found Jon Bartlett at classicsurfboards.com, anybody here know him or have seen his work?

I couldn’t find any soft spots or signs of delamination except for the small sections at the nose and tail. The board is 28.2 lbs according to my bathroom scale, which seems pretty light to me. The board is lighter in color on the rails, fin area, and deck area where I’m assuming the fiber was doubled up. There are quite a few hot coat cracks and places of impact where resin cracked inside the weave (does that make sense?). Many were from storage as there are no yellowing or water damage. I’m guessing the person doing the other repairs will be able to give direction about what to do but I’d also like to have others input. I’m thinking there are enough of these little trouble spots that fixing each one and then doing a final full board hot coat makes sense. I want to surf it a few times a year and I want it to last another 45 years :). Is adding another layer of lightweight cloth a bad move and/or a false sense of security to an old solid board?

The board has one 3/4” stringer and two 3/16” redwood stringers. The stringers are actually shorter then the foam, so the glass is slightly indented along the stringers. Do you think that is how it came or has the foam somehow swelled over the years?

Has anybody heard of fins of this era actually made of foam but painted to look like wood? It definitely has two redwood stringers in the fin, but the other wood looking material isn’t stained on the edges and is a similar color to the foam and I can’t see any grain. Maybe balsa? It’s a mystery to me right now.

Since I want to ride this board but not very often (read: It will probably be a shock to my system riding this after my shortboards) and I don’t want to injure/kill anybody or the board is there any leash options without having a dreaded leash plug? Suction cup? Fiberglass loop designed to break off without hurting the board and can be grinded off? I’m confident I can handle the board most of the time and I won’t surf it in anything but smaller mushy stuff, but if there is a GOOD option to attach a leash I’d like to know.

I’d love to hear any thoughts and observations about the board and any history regarding the design or Hap. I think I’ve exhausted all web resources about Jacobs and Velzy so any book recommendations would be great, especially ones with lots of pictures of boards :slight_smile:

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ahmmm- a few things…

Quote:

I’ve named the board Cindy after Cindy Crawford. She is old with some imperfections and some people think she is ugly, but I still think she is hot as hell.

Cindy Crawford is ‘old’??? Ahmmmm- I think we may be separated by a couple of generations, minimum. Anyhow-

There are no major dings I can see on this board. A few crunches, nose and tail… there is always some moron who sets a board down toohard or decides to stuff it into the sand a’la’ Gidget… but nothing major.

So, what to do? Well, basicly get someone like Pete C to fix it. Understand that nobody will everbe able to bring it back to new, white foam condition, ok? What you want is a good job with appropriate filler in the dings, some glass over that, hotcoat, gloss, call it a day.

You don’t need to re-hotcoat the whole board. 'Cos that will mean sanding the whole board. Then hotcoat, then sanding again. Likewise adding a layer of new, lighter cloth.

Look, this thing had 10 oz glass over the whole thing, probably two layers everywhere. Strength isn’t an issue. It’s bone dry, delam isn’t an issue, it’s only appearance stuff beyond basic ding fixing. I’d fix those dings and the fin, maybe give the board a good polishing all over and see what’s what.

Now, the fin doesn’t have stress cracks. What it does have is garage fatigue, where the cloth that holds it on has been busted loose probably by somebody using it for a shelf. That needs to be redone - not a big deal for a competent repair guy. If you’ve fixed glass-on fins before and done a good job of it, you can do this one - just use 10 oz cloth. Nobody did ‘falsa’ foam back then. Could be balsa, could be mahogany… can’t see the end of the fin, so I can’t tell if that’s been futzed with… freakin thing is big enough, though.

A deck loop - probably the way to go. You don’t want it so weak that it breaks away, just the opposite. If you want to remove those, ya break out the sander.

Shrinkage over the stringers? well, wood can shrink, over time.

Just out of curiosity, how long is this thing? May be just the pix i am looking at but it seems kinda short.

hope that’s of some use

doc…

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Thanks Doc.

Ha ha. Cindy is old for a model not as a person, just like my board is old for a surfboard :slight_smile:

Yes, Pete C sounds like the perfect man to do the job if he is interested. I understand nobody will be able to bring it back to new, but I don’t want white blotches which I fear I might get if I just bring it to anybody. I saw Pete C’s post on “How to Tint Ding repair to Match Yellowing Board?” and those are the kind of skills I’m looking for.

The board is 9’4". Looks like it is single 10oz all the way around except for the fin area and a deck patch where one would knee paddle.

I think I want a professional to handle the nose, tail, fin, and the 2 “Bad Owies” so those look the best they can be. I’m expecting to handle the hotcoat cracks and the resin in the weave cracks myself. I think those might quickly blow my budget since there are so many of them.

Thanks again doc, I’ll contact Pete to see if he is interested.

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Cindy…isn’t quite young enough to be my daughter, but… gawd, what a depressing thought that is.

Now, a good ding guy can do all the rails, crunches, etc, all in one shot. With consistent resin, sanding, etc, etc, etc. And at a package price - so me, I’d suggest ya go that way. The little cracks and such, and those things where ya see cloth- look, those are trickier than ya think. They tend to be a little loose and full of surprises. Very easy to suddenly find that you have sanded through to foam. Takes a good touch with the sander and so on. . and believe me, I have seen lots of 'em where somebody decided to have at it with the sander and it got ugly. By comparison, I’d call the nose, tail and fin relatively easy for somebody without a whole helluva lot of ding and heavy sander time.

So, save up your pennies and dimes and see what happens…

hope that’s of use

doc…

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Sorry to depress you doc. I looked it up, Cindy is only 40, I thought she was way older :slight_smile:

I’ve been hoping the extra cost of the little things doesn’t compound the cost of the repairs a lot so I can have it taken care of all at once. I’ve only paid for repairs twice (fins a long time ago) in my 13 years of surfing, so I have a hard time estimating the cost. I’ve been fearing it might triple the cost of an already pricey repair. In which case I thought I’d do the little things to get it water tight. I’ll take your advice though and give a little more $ room to fix the little things. Its not about having the pennies and dimes, its about telling the Fiance how many pennies and dimes I’ve spent when I’m supposed to be saving for a house (ha ha, she is going to have to wait a while if she wants to stay in Orange County).

Thanks again for your help. Hopefully Pete is willing to do the work.

Some board specs I meant to include in the original post:

L: 9’4"

W: 21" @ very roughly 61" from the nose

T(12"): 14 7/8"

N(12"): 16"

Th: 3 1/4"

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Quote:

…

I’d love to hear any thoughts and observations about the board and any history regarding the design or Hap. I think I’ve exhausted all web resources about Jacobs and Velzy so any book recommendations would be great, especially ones with lots of pictures of boards :slight_smile:

I always like a good novel… I do have a book recommendation, unfortunately there are only 48 copies. I have #37. FWIW here is what Stoked-n-Board has on Hap Jacobs and his boards of that era (cutting off at 1964, before D. Takayama - saves me typing & I’m a lousy proofreader):

=================================================

Factory:

Hermosa Beach, CA (until 1980’s)

Models:

“Concave” 1964-1964

Nose:

concave 9/1964-??

Blanks:

Walker Foam 2/1964-11/1970

Stringers:

high density foam ??-11/1998

routed offset t-bands 1954

2” balsa 1954

3” balsa 1954

5 laminations 1955

Shapers:

Hap Jacobs 3/1962-7/1965

Johnny Rice 1960-1960

Ken Tilton 12/1962-4/1963

Larry Felke 4/1963-4/1963

Tail:

blocks 2/1964-??

Logo:

white “Jacobs” on red diamond ??-??

Glassing:

cut lap 1959-7/1972

Fins:

wood, laminated 1954-1965

Numbering:

Z-12 to Z-502 1954

621 to 690 1955

1,289 to 1,300 1956

1,658 1957

1,871 1958

3,299 1960

3,684 1962

4,189 to 5,222 1964

Weights:

32 lbs. 1954

28 lbs. 1960

===============================================

Note: Missing information is just that. It doesn’t indicate that no boards of other descriptions existed at the time, it means that the author, Andy Anderson, was only able to corroborate what he listed. However, unless there was another numbering series that Andy did not unearth, I doubt that the serial number is 291. 891, maybe. BTW, it looks like Jacobs and Velzy got back together in 1966, with Velzy shaping the model “422” boards. Hope this helps.

-Samiam

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Quote:

Cindy…isn’t quite young enough to be my daughter, but… gawd, what a depressing thought that is.

…

doc…

Now, you get those incestuous thoughts about your “daughter”, Cindy, out of your head, Doc. I’ll tkae care of that department…

-Samiam

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Wow, Thanks for typing that out Scott! That is some awesome stuff! It doesn’t correlate to what I thought and it confuses me more about the origin of my board, but thanks!

So this is my best guess so far with the info Scott provided and the history according to the wife.

The board wasn’t shaped by Jacobs, probably somebody else. (I’ve had several people look at the number under bright white light, and everybody agrees its 291)

The wife said they got married in 1963 and he didn’t surf it afterwards. The board looks like it has had several years of use. She said she thinks he got it in the late 50s/early 60s. The weight of the board closely matches the weight in the info Scott provided for 1960.

Seems like the board was made around 1960. Johnny Rice shaped for Jacobs in 1960. Johnny Rice’s surftech boards all have Pintails like mine except for the 8’8". Sounds like have to some more digging, I don’t know much about Johnny Rice.

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Quote:

Wow, Thanks for typing that out Scott! That is some awesome stuff! It doesn’t correlate to what I thought and it confuses me more about the origin of my board, but thanks!

So this is my best guess so far with the info Scott provided and the history according to the wife.

The board wasn’t shaped by Jacobs, probably somebody else. (I’ve had several people look at the number under bright white light, and everybody agrees its 291)

The wife said they got married in 1963 and he didn’t surf it afterwards. The board looks like it has had several years of use. She said she thinks he got it in the late 50s/early 60s. The weight of the board closely matches the weight in the info Scott provided for 1960.

Seems like the board was made around 1960. Johnny Rice shaped for Jacobs in 1960. Johnny Rice’s surftech boards all have Pintails like mine except for the 8’8". Sounds like have to some more digging, I don’t know much about Johnny Rice.

Could be. But as I wrote, Andy appeared to err toward accuracy at the expense of scope. So the fact that J. Rice is the only shaper listed for 1960 doesn’t mean that he was Jacobs’ only shaper that year, or that Hap himself didn’t shave any foam. It only means that Rice was the only Jacobs shaper that Andy was able to confirm working then (I’d go so far as to speculate that Rice probably was the principal shaper that year, but no farther). Could it be several years older than the wife recalls? Could that “2” actually be a “Z”, as in “Z-91” or “Z91”? If so, that would appear to put the date in 1954. At which time Hap Jacobs was probably shaping any boards bearing his name (somebody had to be shaping them, even though Andy hasn’t listed any names for that period). Stoked-n-Board has really good information, but I’ve learned that I have to live within its limitations.

-Samiam

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Hi

Just  a question if that’s ok… I am looking to purchase a Jacobs #540 and it doesn’t fit into these numbers… it’s a single fin. Thoughts??

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My first thought is that it would help if you show pics of the whole board. Serial numbers, by and large, mean almost nothing on old boards. That is illustrated in the comments contained in the old discussion in this thread. Lots of board makers re-started their numbering system over the years. Many of them kept no records at all. Some labels had random numbers that were a product of the order slips that were pre printed from an outside source.

Show the whole board. Include general measurements, plus pics of the fin(s).

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Thanks for responding… 

Its a 6’ 10”, looks like old logo? And in fairly good condition. 

Many info would be amazing.

Thanks

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No leash plug? Early 70s. Given the condition I’d ballpark a fair price around 200, tops

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Thank you so much for your help… : )

Have a great day 

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It’s kinda odd that you responded to a 12 year old thread, but okay. Your post is timed interestingly to a recent thread I started about two weeks ago. I have a 7’0" 133 Widener Jacobs board, in worse condition than yours. You can read more info about it here: https://www.swaylocks.com/forums/70s-jacobs-singlefin-shortboard-shaped-widener.

Somebody added a leash plug (possibly 2) on mine. From the info in that post, it’s assumed my Jacobs is 73-75’. At that time Jacobs (the man) wasn’t in the shop, he was “fishing” according to unclegrumpy. Others, such as Widener, shaped the boards instead. I’ve tried to get some leads on locating Widener. It has taken me to Stewart boards as well as Biolos and I’ve contacted them both, with no response back.

As for my board, I’m going to patch it up and ride it. 

Let me know if you have any questions. 

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From what I’ve been told, Rick Stoner and Ricky James took over the label at that time.

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These boards are becoming more collectible with the passage of time.  The biggest contributors to their value are condition and whether or not they are original and unaltered.  A board without a leash plug, glass on fin instead of the early Bahne box etc all contribute to price and define the era.  Shop it around with some of the Longboard Collectors Club members in So. Calif.  A few of them specialize in transition era boards.  I think I may have mentioned in the other thread, Bashams as being a source for possible info on Widener.  If he is shaping for anyone around in the SC Ghetto somebody at Basham’s would most likely know.   And yes Hap Jacobs had moved onto fishing and running the fueling dock etc at King Harbor in Redondo. Wayne Rich used the label thru late 80’s & 90’s.  Using the Jacobs label was a big boost to Wayne’s shaping career and helped establish him as a respected shaper.  When Hap got back into it later he couldn’ Use the old label(most likely due to TM). So he started shaping under the label Hap Jacobs.  The font and art work were not restricted as only the name had most likely been TM’ed.  I know a little about this only because I have TM’ed my own label twice in 20 years.  Once the Time ran out on the TM, Wayne let it go as he was now well established under his own label.  Hap had become known under the “Hap” label So he didn’ go back to the old one.  This is most likely the scenario.  Don’t know 100 % because I haven’t ever cared enough to look it up.  Might be that it is TM’ed again.  I don’t know.  I can tell you that your board is most likely ‘69–‘70.  Bahne box and Volan Cloth.  The Bahne /Fins Unlimited box was in fairly wide spread use by then, but Volan had not been replaced yet by Surfboard specific 6 oz. E Fiberglass Cloth.

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So I’m not sure what you’re saying. Are my years off? If so, in which direction? I only assumed the years going off of what unclegrumpy told me 

Jeff Widener shaped my first custom (with me watching) in the Jacobs shop around 1972. By that time Hap had gone fishing but his name was still on the shop and boards. 

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Currently TM’ed to Skip Beall, May 1996

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Widener might have been shaping there. I don’t know. But Stoner and James took over the label from Hap around 1972-73. I might be off by a year or two, and it could be closer to '74.