grind tv claiming Kai Lenny first to ride self paddled hydrofoil, but I know Surfoils was doing this a few years back, and maybe wooddave or another poster here too.
Still very cool tho.
With all due respect, I believe that even Brett Curtis (Surffoils), to whom I give much credit for forward thinking about a lot of things, would admit to not being the first. And Laird Hamilton wasn’t either.
Terry Hendricks references Gaylord Miller as having a hydrofoil paipo back in 1960…
http://mypaipoboards.org/GaylordMiller_Paipo_Foil.shtml
Of course hydrofoil technology in boats goes way back…
http://www.foils.org/gallery/early.htm
Modern hydrofoil technology in kiteboards is absolutely mind blowing. Watching one of these videos is enough to make me want to take up a new sport.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsOrFjkeSg8
And yes, true ‘Swaylocks’ mentality is alive and well on DIY hydrofoil kiteboarding sites.
Ok but as far as I know Surfoils was the first to build and ride a self paddled stand-up surfboard with hydrofoil, no es verdad?
Not that it matters, my point really was that Kai isn’t the first, and Surfoils was doing this a couple years back,
It’s cool the kite surfers are exploring this, and it’s cool to watch the Kai Lenny video, so amazing to me to watch these things!
There was an old guy , I cant remember his name that for years rode a kneeboard with a foil under it at Diamond head .
Thanks guys, I think I am actually the first to build their own hydrofoil design Shortboard, paddle in and ride it above the water as a real Hydrofoil.
I wasn’t the first on surfing hydrofoils but Terry Hendricks, Gaylord Miller, Dave Tomasetti and I are the only ones I know to build it completely from scratch. As good Swaylockers do !
It’s also important to distinguish between just calling something a “Hydrofoil” and completely rising above the water and actually “Hydrofoiling”.
The term ‘Hydrofoil’ actually has a meaning.
My claim would Also be the first to build and ride my own ‘self-propelled’ hydrofoil bodyboard in 2011, then hydrofoil short board surfboard and now hydrofoil handplane. Hydrofoils are my speciality on all surfcraft and I would challenge anyone’s knowledge except for Terry Hendricks however in his later years he tried my concepts. There’s no money or fame to be gained but in a small corner of the net, people know.
And recently I’ve collaborated with a SUP maker in Hi but I’m happy to share info and designs with anyone. My specific design is with longitudinal foils rather than lateral orientation, and I’ve never seen anyone use this concept…
Lateral foils rely on Bernoullian lift which is speed and orientation dependant while longitudinal foils are more Newtonian in concept and stable. In another 10 years some guy will bring out my longitudinal foil design and claim it as his own and that’s OK with me too.
embedding the vid b/c it’s fascinating. grindtv claiming “first ever” is pretty funny.
how crazy is it that he can pump back into another wave w/o setting back down?! that was wild. probably the next fitness craze. watch out shark tank. so long yoga-on-a-standup-paddle-board, hello foil-pump-fitness!
it looks really tough and kind of awkward to surf, but so smooth.
gordof wrote:
how crazy is it that he can pump back into another wave w/o setting back down?!
A guy named MacCready built a human-powered hydrofoil in the 1980s that was propelled by a flapping foil. The modified PogoFoil version used an up and down pumping motion to make the foil flap.
I suspect Lenny is creating a foil flapping motion with his up and down pumping action while shifting his weight distribution at the same time.
Video link to the PogoFoil version of MacCready’s original model the Mutiny. The PogoFoil must have weighed well over 100 lb.
stoneburner, that’s so cool and crazy! love it! i know this vid has been on here before…sorta similar
can guys shed light on the length of the “mast” between the board and the foil on kai’s board compared to what surffoils is doing? i think surffoils projects look ways sicker and kai’s board just seems so high out of the water. i know looks aren’t the issue, but is it a different performance focus for you surffoils? like not flying a foot above the water and just getting some glide/float assistance? is the kai board designed for choppier bigger waves?
all this is fascinating to me.
Well here’s the 2013 thread right here on Swaylocks that 3 years old, and I was doing it for several years before that. A Google search would have shown that.
Gordof, the deal with the vertical mast is that’s how they come standard when you buy them for kite foiling or tow or sup. They can be any length you like and there is a joy in being so high off the water but there are downsides for using a longer length in surfing.
1/. The longer the length the less leverage you have to turn the foil that’s why they can only do roundhouse turns. With a shorter mast you can turn it like a normal surfboard.
2/. At speed the foils lift and when the speed drop, you drop, I wanted a smoother transition between both without popping up and down 3 feet. Their mast is about 3 feet, mine are 1 foot.
3/. A shorter mast allows me to paddle out and surf over shallow reefs and not worry about how deep the water is. I can paddle my foils in knee deep water.
4/. A longer mast is heavier and flexes more so a shorter mast has a better feel and is quicker, easier to build and ride.
5/. And a shorter mast is safer when you’re actually surfing with others. I always have safety in mind with foils because they could be devastatingly dangerous but you want to surf anywhere you like but you should also do it safely for yourself and others.
I’m not the only person to ride my foils, there are two Sydney guys Alex Budlevski and Adam Rowlison and my brother Stephen Roberts and my son Ben and I’m pretty sure Ben Chipper from here on Swaylocks also rode them, so there’s quite a line of people who were first.
The longer mast was originally designed to do tricks at a constant speed behind a ski boat but if the length is halved for surfing it will improve the performance.
gordof wrote:
i know this vid has been on here before…sorta similar
If you watch all 3 videos – Lenny, MacCready and Waterbird – they all appear to be creating the same basic foil “flapping” motion to create lift and generate forward propulsion.
For the Waterbird, it looks like the front foil may be flapping also.
I believe the MacCready hydrofoils used a NACA 4415 foil profile.
Cool stuff for sure…
EDIT: After doing a little reading on the internetnet, it looks like the WaterBird was/is an unauthorized knock-off of the AquaSkipper.
thanks stoneburner and surffoils for the info. good stuff!
it was good seeing Alex Budlevskis [ ’ capt. caveman’ here , back then] surf it , and to film the wave that day …may 2013 at harbord beach , sydney… I was on my way back to Victoria [where I was living at the time ] , and dropped in for a few days .
Thanks , ‘Surffoils’ , thanks ’ capt. caveman ’ ! for the opportinuty to film / see it in action [ I had been frothing , ever since I first saw the posts here on swaylock’s !]
If ever it gets reconstructed / back in the water again , I am available to re-film you , Alex Budlevskis !
cheers ! 
Ben Chipper , Sydney , Australia
Hi Ben, it’s still around , I rode it a few weeks ago when we had a peak in the north corner at Fresh’.
Have you still got the pics from that day and at Curl Curl ? I spoke to Alex yesterday and he’s still keen, I got an offer for an interview too.
The longer mast was originally designed to do tricks at a constant speed behind a ski boat but if the length is halved for surfing it will improve the performance.
I have studied kitefoils with the intention of building them for some time.
When I say “study” i mean riding
The long mast isn’t for doing tricks, it’s to allow a high margin of error to stay on foil. Kite foiling is shall we say “not so stable”
In the Up and down plane you are flying a kite, balancing upward kite pull against weight and foil lift wind speed, gusts, and angle of attack changes of the kite In the horizontal plane you are offsetting sideways kitepull with the healing angle of the foil. all while navigating over waves on the water. As you go faster, kite pull becomes harder (more relative wind) and the foil requires angle of attack adjustments via weight shifts to keep it at a constant height. It’s a ton to balancing speed,gusts, waves, foot position kite postion, kite trim. in 2 separate planes All must be perfectly balanced to maintain a steady height. the length adds buffer and makes it possible to screw up this balance and not breach the foil. when you breach at any considerable speed you drop like a stone as the wing will ventilate and lose all lift. On plane vs on foil is like driving a race car vs a snow plow. touch down on the board without breaching and you lose a ton of speed and have to reset all variables into take off mode to get the lift and speed needed to get back on foil.
The faster more effecient kite foils lifting wings are also very high aspect. (long and thin) too much healing angle and the foil tip wing breaks through the surface and ventilates the wing dropping you like a stone. a longer mast allows for more margin in healing angle and allows for high aspect efficient foils.
This video by kai is friggin amazing. pumping a kite foil tand staying on foil between waves is an unfathomable level of skill and likely a very special foil Watching both this video and his SUP video shows just how effecient these foils are.
The propulsion methods used by kai and the aquaskippers are utterly absurd and hopelessly ineffecient BUT THEY WORK proving one one key concept The right design requires very little energy to stay on foil. The real challenge is to come up with an elegant means to move these things FORWARD.
I did say “Originally” and they were Originally invented in the 1980s as a product called an Air Chair by Mike Murphy and then Sky Ski long before they were adopted by kites, sups, Moth boats…
The longer mast allowed for greater margin of error but also for a longer time period of maximum lift when attempting tricks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-down_hydrofoil
I tried a lot of the high aspect foils and as you say they lose lift quickly if the vent or the AOA isnt perfect so I went with very low aspect foils and they work a lot better.
Less Bernoulli / more Newton. Lift isnt that hard to find in water as it is in air.
I emailed Laird 2 years ago to explain why my foils are more stable.
Here’s some 2013 posts from another surf forum and plenty of pics.
The most interesting thing is the ride report from Alex Budlevski where he talks about how riding a hydrofoil surfboard feels.
thanks for the commentary , Alex …
Plain Aluminium looks boring so a marbled spray with a few colours gives it a look.
It’s the one spray I can get right every time because it’s random.
