surform technique

I have just finished shaping my very first blank. I research swaylocks for a few months previous to get an idea of what i needed.  A surform was among the most important tool, at least thats what i got out of my digging.  I ended up throwing the damn thing away, after gouging and pocking out my board with it.  I ended up shaping the entire board out of a 60 grit hard block.  Turned out beautiful. I was wondering what I am clearly not understanding about the uses of a surform.  I could only manage to dig out troughs on the foam.

 

[img_assist|nid=1051945|title=5’5’’ simmons project|desc=|link=none|align=center|width=640|height=480]

[quote="$1"]

 I ended up throwing the damn thing away

  [/quote]

Good move.

(although you might keep the blade for cleaning laps and assorted jobs)

[quote="$1"]

[quote="$1"]

 I ended up throwing the damn thing away

  [/quote]

Good move.

(although you might keep the blade for cleaning laps and assorted jobs)

[/quote]

 

i've only shaped 4 boards but my understanding of the sureform after reading a lot about it here on Sways is that "the less you use it the better".

i sometimes find that i "need" it ("need" is in quotes because those with more skill on the planer or sander wouldn't need it in the same situation)

for the deck up by the nose of a flip-tip shortboard... i have yet to try Mike's suggestion from another thread which was a power sander

for that spot. you may get people commenting on this thread telling you the sureform is fine, go ahead and use it, etc... the really

experienced shapers (10,000 + boards) all say the same thing. the less you use it the better, it's a crutch and the least accurate tool,

and the goal to shoot for is being able to finish a blank with the planer then go straight to finish sand.

My back yard boards are usually made from thick kneeboard blanks, so the surform is my favourite tool. Im terrible with a planer, so i like to use the surform to "rough out" rail bands etc,then hit with 80grit, then the screen, then 220 if im feeling energetic.

 

Some people like pizza, some people like spaghetti. Nothing wrong with using the 60 grit

 

I must point out i have no intention of becoming a shaper for a living, or making boards for anyone but myself.

As said above;  better to avoid it all together if you can.  If you are going to skin a blank(remove the hard outside crust) and do not have a planer or are afraid to use one; power sand the crust away with a sander/polisher.  Once you are thru the crust go to the sanding block..  Surforms can screw up a blank quicker than any other tool.  Having said that they do have some uses.  I still use one to knock down high spots and  once over my blank after I have planed it with my Skil.  Only minimal use though.  A couple of things about Surforms;   Always use a sharp blade.  Make sure the blade is aligned and tight.  An angled, loose or dull blade will rip into a blank for sure.  Most guys put too much pressure and push too hard on a Surform causing it to catch and roll.  Better to pull a Surform towards you than to push.  More control.  Better to go from your planer to the sanding block if you can.  If you must use a Surform the above tips will help.  I would never use a Surform on EPS.  Primarily because if you catch an edge with a Surform on EPS you are probably looking at some major chunks and tearing. 

Sureforms can be incredibly useful and effective tools if used correctly.  Most importantly, use a sharp blade for foam of any kind, and do not use that blade for anything else - wood, fiberglass, cheese - nothing! I almost always use the 6" flat, but have a 12" flat and that 3" rounded.  You can get all the shapes you need for a surfboard from the 6". 

Secondly - do not attempt to use a flat sureform planer like a single-bladed block plane on wood.  The front end of the sureform will always snag and gouge into the foam - especially on the deck when you’re getting into the rocker.  Wether you’re pulling or pushing a sureform, always keep it oriented at about a 30-45 degree relative to the line of motion.   This should make a huge difference for flatter areas. 

When doming a deck, rounding over rails or getting into the deck rocker, switch your line of motion to long diagonals rather than passes that are parallel to the stringer.  It’s okay to rough out those areas that way, but the diagonals really clean up any lumps and voids.  Also, switch up the direction of your diagonals from tail to nose and nose to tail.  All one direction from nose to tail but the opposite on the way down (really the same motion, but the lines become opposite when working in the opposite direction if that makes sense).   

After shaping a couple this way you’ll be able to get that foam very close to finish with just a light touch of 60grit paper for cleanup before sealing.  Trust me, I’ve shaped mountains of foam with a sureform (personal boards in EPS and XPS and large scale patterns for a corporate sculptor)   - shapes that you couldn’t even get near with a planer.

     Howzit McDing, About the only thing to use a surform for is a freddie tool. Aloha,Kokua

sheesh, who'da thought there was such wide hostility to the most basic of all tools (IMHO) for shaping!

My humble 41 years (or so) of back yard experience has shown that the power tools are MUCH more likely in my hands to make a real mess of things.  Back in the day, we skinned longboard blanks with them.  And that was the back-then, dense Clark foam.  We had no choice, so we did it.

It seems to me that the posters recommending against the Surform are the pro's, as well it should be.  Guys with thousands of boards in their past(s), for whom planers are an expensive and useful tools.  I like my cheapo planers too, but it's always the surform to clean up the blank prior to sanding. 

The day Sways becomes a hangout for pros who disparage basic tools and beginner shapers, I'm outta here.  And I'm beginning to smell some of that already.

    Howzit Honolulu, If your user name reflects on where you live then you know that in Hi ans especially here on Kauai a surform blade rusts about 10 minutes after the first use. I used to keep my Weiss scissors in it's own acetone container and it even rusted, oh the joys of the tropics and tools. One good thing about Az is they don't allow rust across the state line.Aloha,Kokua

thanks for the input, pro or not we stick to what we’re comfortable with.  For now ill leave the surform on the shelf. 

A surform is like any other tool. In inexperienced hands it can lead to disaster. I know. The first board I shaped (40+ years ago) was done with one and it was a mess. My first planer-shaped board was slightly better.

put microplane blades on your surform…a very nice upgrade for only a few bucks.

Not all the pros are anti-surform, just like not all the pros insist on using a Skil 100.  It’s a tool, that’s all.

 

Hand shaping start to finish with 60 grit paper instead of applying some of the advice you asked for? Sounds like a good plan. 

There are a lot of people out there who think that most cutting tools should be used like a sanding block anyway, cutting in every direction . . .scrub,scrub,scrub, scratcy,scratchy . . .  Maybe that’s the problem you had with the sureform - it only cuts in one direction.  If you’re using it correctly it only travels in one direction when cutting and makes a zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzip sound, nothing like a sanding block. Also, don’t try taking down the stringer with it, but recess the stringer first with a trim plane.

God bless all tools, sureform included!

 

I use the 6" , 12" and the long round one and the scooper looking one with the blade reversed so,s I can pull it .

I have the micro blade on one of the 12 incher's

heres what I use them for......

6 &12  rough bladed for trueing and squareing outlines followed by a sanding block

12 incher with microblade for planer clean up

scouper along with a spokeshave and sand block is used to clean up forward deck planermarks

I use this tool carefully as to not loose control and gouge the blank

I use both power and hand tools in combination, as needed, to suit my skills and get the job done.

Ambrose

I can just see Marta giving you the stink eye for that,,,,,, thats some funny stuff!

 

some of the things you say make me feel like Im on the Island... Thank you for those little things my friend!

I shaped hundreds of boards with a surform as my primary tool. Then I met Jim Phillips in 1980 and he immediately started working on me to use better tools. I'd surform out a deck and he'd come over and run up and down it with his planer (set on zero), and you'd hear the sound of the planer hitting the high spots. Same on rail bands. For those of you who like the surform, my advice would be to make sure you block out everything after the surform to even the bumps out.

IMO it's better to use tools that refuse to cut unevenly. There's nothing a surform does that a coarse block or flexi-block won't do better.

I do have a round microplane for doing the crotch of swallows, but that's it.

 

some cannot use chopstix

some throw away a fork

I go through the silver ware

drawer and pick out a special

spoon for ice cream another for mellons

If my wife puts the wrong fork next to my plate

I get up and change it…

I put out a itty bitty appetizer fork

at her plate to irritate her for fun.

 

sureform is best used with two hands firmly held

goin straight to length

or one handed sideways lightly

holding onto the board with the other…

 

straight to length for evening out bumps

sideways for details on the round…

I havent used my surform for ages

it has its place…just another fork

in the ‘silverware’ drawer for a rainy day

when I need to polish a honey dew mellon

for a photo shoot … or a catapult launch

 

 

…ambrose…

 

 

roling over a surform

on an almost finished shape 

is a magic memory.

Mike, similar story, based on a thread from 6 or so months ago, you told me to avoid my surform. I still have it but havent used it in 6 months.

 

Shaping better, much happier, less grief.

 

36 grit sandpaper on a block is my new hand tool of choice.

Surforms are gnarly.

Microplane for swallows.

 

Jim Phillips will be smiling......