Surftech Direct ?

Industry Talk
1
Quote:

“Surftech now offically owns the marketplace as far as I’m concerned. said Dave Hollander, co-owner of Becker Surf and Sport, a Hermosa Beach-based surf shop operator that recently struck a deal to sell Surftech boards online.”

ok , so how is this comment to be interpreted ???

now you can get a surftech , straight from the factory in thailand to your door anywhere in the world ???

can it get any worse ???

now even middle men and retailers are getting shafted …

was there ever rules ? or is it every man for himself …

the worst part is , randy probably has a made in thailand robomower , just so he doesnt have to make eye contact with an ex surfboard building mower man …

hey randy no offense , on the mower comment , but , i can say your really raising the bar …

if others go in this direction as well and we have china direct , vietnam direct, the customer just choosing there slater endorsed model straight from the surfer magazine catalog , to be posted within 2 weeks to your door …

randy just did alot of ex surfboard builders a favour …

now another potential post surfboard industry job , the delivery driver …

knock knock !!!

your new surftech has arrived sir …

shall i unwrap it for you sir ??

" yea and while your at it you can wax it to " " hey biolas , before you get back in that van , make sure you pick that wax wrapper up " …

???well , whats the real story ?

regards

BERT

2
Quote:
Quote:

"Surftech now offically owns the marketplace as far as I’m concerned.

ok , so how is this comment to be interpreted ??? "as far as I’m concerned’'. one guys opinion , that’s all…

3

I thought all boards bought are factory direct. The retailer orders them or the customer, who cares?

Are you saying one can only oder a board of yours via a surfshop? Sounds like you are only doing factory direct now also.

Sailboards were almost always imported, and no one complained.

It’s happened to TV’s, cell phones, auto parts, computers and even the renowned blue tarp.

Are surfboards immune somehow to a world market? Business has never looked better for many these days. And I see this as even better news for me. The middleman surfshop owner once was a friend and turned foe with the china imports and now they can’t make money on a surftech? My cup is half full on this news and my lawn needs mowing.

An import is an import. Thank God I am making exports!!!

4

All custom sailboards are essential the same technology as Surf-tech and made in the same factory in Tiland. Custom shapers and surfshops all dumped windsurfing in the mid 90s as they could not make any money. So today, a custom sailboard – essentially a surf-tech with footstraps and a mast track sells new for around $1600! Eliminate shapers and the local shop and I guarantee you the consumer will end up on the short end of a pricy stick when the competition is gone.

5

Icky!!! Good read on the subject is “The Earth is Flat”. By JK Galbraith I think. About how due to technological develpement, esp internet and, ANYTHING that can be outsourced to cheaper–will be. Even now, if you go to a hospital and they do CT scan or MRI it will likely be read by an MD in Pakistan or Outer Slobovia via the net for 1/5 the cost of doing it in US. Only things that won’t get outsourced are those that require unique, specialized, personal skills i.e. chef, novelist, etc. Even much of the news, the bulletins and moment by moment as it happens announcements are being put together in boiler rooms in India etc. Pretty grim…interesting read though

6

“The World Is Flat” by Thomas L. Friedman? Just finished reading it for a final thesis paper in my global organization class. I don’t know if it is the same book, but it deals with globalization, and all the outsourcing occuring, the shifts in culture, etc. Kind of interesting the simultaneity (for me) of this whole event happening in the middle of studying culture and globalization. The backlash to globalization occuring has been the rise of fundamentalists in many cultures. Sound like someone we know? (traditional pu/pe shapers???). Haha, only half kidding. Something to think about. Some people definitely react like fundamentalists when the merits of pu/pe are put into question.

Just give me a wave, it’s all I want!!

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Quote:

ok , so how is this comment to be interpreted ???

now you can get a surftech , straight from the factory in thailand to your door anywhere in the world ???

can it get any worse ???

now even middle men and retailers are getting shafted …

Bert,

I assumed Dave Hollander meant Becker Surf and Sport would be selling Surftechs online as part of their online business in Califormia. Accent on “assumed” because I don’t know for sure. I can’t imagine factory direct ordering from across the ocean due to shipping costs and the time factor. Common sense would indicate to me that normal distribution channels - containers to west coast, to warehouse, to retailer- would make the most sense.

Of course, in a cultural climate where money or credit is no object, there is no commorn sense…

Didn’t somebody speculate that Phil Becker was considering retirement? Seems like there is probably a story in there about that company going Surftech or at least to what degree.

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I’ve read some of Friedmans book and watched an interview with him. Good stuff. I know the chinese would love to make our boards. And maybe some percentage of the “surfing” population would by them.

But I think most people with common sense realize that the demand for quality surf craft built by surfers will never go away. I personally would never trust or desire a foriegn non-surfer to make me a board, heck I am even skeptical of aussies(wink wink).

I never really post to this site but I love seeing guys doing weird stuff to ride waves with. It’s all about loving what you do and doing what you love.

For instance me and pops were running down to the local dredging right reefbreak when we came across a local backyard board builder whos known for making crazy flex tails and other assorted gadgetry. He had a board under each arm and a sparkle in the eye. He babbled some barely coherent talk of “vacume pressed or something just like they do skateboards, and we sent in a patent the day after clark shut down…” The guys calssic but I was just stoked to see someone who was doing it and not kooking out at the local mini mall surf shop buying all the merricks he could afford.

Personally I would be fine with china taking a big share of the market to the detriment of the greedy surf manufacturers out here. Make them work a little harder to lower prices you know. Heck most of them are already overseas in some capacity now.

I personally destroy a surfboard in a matter of several months. I don’t see how any reasonable person can say that a surfboard that will fall apart rather quickly is worth such high money. I know what it takes to make a surfboard. I really feel like alot of the guys who get to make their living from surfing have totally lost sight of what a priviledge it is to be doing what they do. They see surfers as dollar signs and surfing as their mortgage payment…sad!

Go China!

PS- Just a little coffee induced rant.

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???well , whats the real story ?

an inevitable development in the moving at the speed of light, profit at any cost, 21st century global economy…

the mass retail takers of such practices are mainly driven by price…the Wal*Surf mindset…they can have such kookery

OTOH, sounds like the basis for a potential asian made, custom order biz model…pick your model or design to fit online…clickity click of the mouse…two months later a shiny new stick awaits at your front door…elimination of the middlemen offsets the extra costs of oversize package delivery

its safe to say that the opportunity of a lifetime has landed on RF’s lap…he’s thinking big…shooting for the moon…the Bill Gates of surfboard marketing if you will.

im confident home made custom will survive all this, but proly on on smaller scale…

another very good reason to DIY…

10

Online surfboards have been available for some time through Amazon.com. I don’t think these are “factory direct” though. They’re probably already in a warehouse waitng to be shipped to your front door. JC, McTavish, Peter Mel, etc… they’re all onboard.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/ref=sc_ca_c_1_12902671_1/002-4078174-6507222?%5Fencoding=UTF8&node=3418591&no=12902671&me=A12AWXEV5DO25C

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I sold surboards online for 6 years. I had deals with LOST and Price and all boards were new and factory direct. Some were custom some were not. I think most people would like to look at and feel a board and pick it up before buying.

Of course the custom order process is always going to be a double blind process so that was unaffected by the internet. I even did custom art designed by the customer. They drew it and Jpeged it to me and I emailed it to the company. But it came down to good writing and communicating skills in the end.

As for Surftech online seen one you seen them all. Pick a color, size, model, and click order. Very simple. It will probably work for those middle America orders. And they’re out there. Many coastal people have to move for jobs and only get to take trips on vacation. I even sent a board and travel bag to meet up with a customer in HI at their hotel. Bag and board were different sources and both factory direct. I handled nothing but a keyboard. All credit card. That was good timing. Everyone came through.

Many orders were from American military men and women. Gotta move fast to help them. Those people get shipped around the world like it’s no big deal. I’ll never forget the phone conversation I had with the guy who had just got back from a year in Iraq and needed a soft rack quick so he could bring his board xcountry from Cali, where they had just mustered him out, to NJ. I fedxd it to him overnight and never charged him. How could I after what he’d just gone through. I felt good about that $. IN summer there it’s 140 in the shade and at night 100 to 110 and you shiver and freeze at that. Not to mention the obvious.

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I sold surboards online for 6 years. I had deals with LOST and Price and all boards were new and factory direct. Some were custom some were not. I think most people would like to look at and feel a board and pick it up before buying.

Well shoot - that’s what I get for assuming. I was going to ask you Mark if the Lost and Price orders were factory direct from U.S. manufacturing plants, but when it comes to Surftechs I guess what is the difference. You can handle them in a shop and then place an order if you so desire - if maybe you don’t like Shoprat’s attitude. Wonder how that is going to change in the next few months…

Meecrafty - Wal-Surf? Honor roll for that one for sure.

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Quote:
-"The World Is Flat" by Thomas L. Friedman

My bad on the author…same book.

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Nev have been selling boards online for years.

regards,

Håvard

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I think that the better than average surfer will always want to communicate with the shaper to refine his or her boards to their specific style and where the board will be used the most. All rounders will buy all round boards from surftech and the other Epoxy board sellers but at the end of the day they don’t ride like hand crafted PU boards and so as far as alot of the old shapers i’ve been talking to it’ll be business as usual… Customs for those who care…

16

going direct was one way to combat losing retailer rack space to cheap imports …

the customer still gets the service , the board builder still makes the sale …

one of surftechs major angles when first approaching retailers was the point about not undercutting …

many retailers cited local board builders taking there customers as a valid reason for going with surftech …

plenty of retailers helped build a shapers profile , only to have that shaper start getting approached directly for boards , cutting the retailer out of the deal …

nev direct ,online selling was a reaction to having imports on mass take rack space that had traditionallly been his in over seas retail outlets …

i heard with my own ears ,one of the reps say , " surftech wont undercut a retailer , youll never see a surftech coming from the factory to someone in the public "…

this is the type of comment that gives a retailer confidence to stock a brand if they know they will continue to get margins without competition …

these comments helped retailers to the decision to drop existing brands in favour of surftech …

if it is indeed true , that a retailer can now be bypassed , whats the point of carrying all this stock , a customer can come in and feel the one he likes , then go home click on the icon and have it sent to him …

if the surftech online is 10 dollars cheaper , you can bet the consumer will want to save it …

i think it opens up a can of worms …

its situations like this , where greed can start to undo your business …

dont forget that we in the developed countries dont have certain benefits , when it comes to producing cost effective products …

i dont want to be reading more into this ,than could be there …

but surftech made ground into retail outlets at the expense of the traditional surfboard industry , it now seems its making ground to consumers at the expense of retailers , retailers who have got the whole concept off the ground and supported surftech , having the confidence they wouldnt be undercut by a manufacturer selling direct …

selling online crosses borders and it crosses the teritories of other retailers …

i used to deal with one retailer who had an exclusive on a board brand over a wide area , because he was the only one who carried the popular brand , he was able to make a good mark up , when the board label got smart (so they thought ) and started selling to another retailer nearby , the first retailer just dropped the brand , having lost his margins because customers would come in saying " hey i can get it up the road 100 bucks cheaper …

this is a dangerous move that could undo a lot of hard work …

surftechs being sold online , cant be policed …

you think the factory guy who is packing the board ready for shipping is going to say, hey hang on , we cant send this one , this guy lives within 30 miles of ron jons …

nev went direct as a reaction to surftechs and other cheap imports taking rack space , surftech going direct just looks like plain greed …

it may have been one small comment that slipped under the radar , but it has serious implications …

regards

BERT

17

But Becker is a middle man. So it’s really not factory direct. Just maybe supported by factory inventory.

Most shapers that I know with Internet sites don’t really get many orders that way. They use the site as advertising.

However, their sites constitute factory direct sales. Is it okay for NEV and all these other shapers to have factory direct and not Surftech?

Is there some Internet police gestapo. NO it’s free market rules.

There are advantages like not carrying inventory and not charging sales tax on the cost savings side, but then there are shipping and handling charges and those can be high for a single board. So if the Internet retailer is going to compete he or she eats them and the margin goes way down. I found my margin to be next to nothing if I ate those charges. Not worth the two hours emailing back and forth with the customer and the 2.5 or 3.5% charge by the credit card company that I had to pay. If I buy a plain board for $349 and resell it for $425 like the stores I have lost money because the shipping and box costs that the shaper charges me for were $75. You don’t stay in business losing money on every sale.

So who is cutting whose throat? The shop retailer only charging $425 or the Internet retailer charging the same, only delivered to your door?

What is the better deal two 10 inch pizzas for $10 or one 20" pizza for ten? Answer the 20" by far.

And if you are the retailer giving away those extra inches you are losing to the 2x10 inch guy.

I got out.

Like I said the Internet is for shapers to advertise.

It gives people access to the info from home. The shaper can also use it as a link in an advertising chain.

They advertise on plenty of other sites, say Surfline, and have a link to their site, where potential customers can peruse the line.

Advertising is a method to keep your name in front of the public eye.

The surf shops I know with Internet sales do well mainly with boutique goods.

18

The cardinal rule isn’t about access, but price. Many surfboard makers sell direct as well as through shops. The key is to make sure nobody thinks they get a ‘better deal’ through one or the other. Shops buy wholesale, sell retail. Shapers/factories have to sell at the same retail price.

The shops won’t mind because they know they aren’t being undercut. They’ll keep stocking boards because that brings people in for all the other gear too.

The manufacturer will get some extra sales, people who don’t live near a retailer, etc.

Its all about price & perception…

19

What is importand depends on who you are.

Price for the customer.

Margin for the retailer.

The margin sucked too much for me.

I paid the same as the shops, sold for the same as the shops, but never made a dime. What were my options? Price for less and include shipping? Then the final price is more than the shop. There are no easy answers. Margins on surfboards are not high enough for either Internet or shop retailers. Surfboards need to be keystoned or better. If not it’s just not worth it. It’s a tough business selling boards on the Internet and in shops. I don’t see things changing until the margins change.

Margins are the issue. Access to so many sources is what keeps margins low. With these simple facts it’s easy to see what is going on.

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Quote:

Most shapers that I know with Internet sites don’t really get many orders that way. They use the site as advertising.

Like I said the Internet is for shapers to advertise.

It gives people access to the info from home. The shaper can also use it as a link in an advertising chain.

They advertise on plenty of other sites, say Surfline, and have a link to their site, where potential customers can peruse the line.

The surf shops I know with Internet sales do well mainly with boutique goods.

I have sold quite a few boards via the internet, but I used to do about 50 boards a month from a small shop. I don’t advertise at all. Good service and trust will get you along way. Most people in the surf industy don’t know how to sell surfboards or answer surfers questions. Instead they simply try figure out the latest hot thing and hope the name sells. Certain shapers are almost guaranteed to please and certain customers are not worth having. Know when to hold and when to fold is an art form. Straight talk and truth are always best. I have seen few industries with worse help than surf shops.