I’m with Benny - I don’t care much what people think about my boards, or the way they look, and I’m slowing the pendulum from one extreme to another finding what works well for me. My last board is unconventional, yet more conventional than most my boards, and worked great out of the gate. For me, this thread relates to the “forces in surfing” thread - what and why things work…
How many of you know who Yogi Berra is ? That man has a way with words and is extremely humble regarding his knowledge of life and his game, baseball. His natural ability to distill complicated ideas into the realm of obvious reality is so logical and simple it’s almost scary.
Applying some Yogi Berra to this discussion, “To know that we don’t know is the beginning of knowledge.”
Here’s some thoughts about the design process and surfboards if anyone’s interested,
http://www.naturalcurvesboards.com/html/designhtml/designprocess.html
Kind regards,
SC
…besides the guys say, a simple way (cheap but longer) to understand a design is to rides it a lot
have 1 board and surf with that until you really understand whats going on
if you change and change every month, you simply dont reach a top knowledgment on that board
–that and having time and also good surfers (with different biotypes and skills) feedback surfing ´round the world was a way to go, pre the internet
now you can come here and ask a question and somebody tell you, possibily a good answer
just fast, like everything right now -with no time to digest well and do a solid base-
but to obtain that answer were lots of “sweat and tears” for years, trying to figurate why
and thats a good way to be a guy who knows what he talk
George, Good comments. You and I are engineers and I think we naturally tend to explore new ideas by mixing and matching existing proven ideas in new combinations. But, your thirty years plus as a builder/designer puts you in a very good position to avoid chasing dead ends while still pushing the limits.
Like Benny1 says, we have lots of ideas to persue. I too have several experiments going, and not enough time to do them all. (Oh, gee, look at the squirel!)
I love building boards. Like G Loehr said, it is so cool building stuff you can go out and ride.
And for the record, I WILL continue to persue the mythical long short board in hopes that when I am 65 I can still rip a bit.
Bill, can’t wait to attend your seminar. As I have said to you before, I feel as though my biological clock is ticking and I need to build one of everything before I get too old to ride it.
Hope to meet a bunch of you guys out there.
I always thought of this place as a Do-It-Yourselfer bulletin board versus a online apprenticeship program for up and coming industry types.
Creating a place like this where someone or some unknown can learn how to decently build one of these things on their own is Mike’s most unrecognized gift to the surfing world. We not only learn that things can be built better but also that building it right is the most difficult task.
So many have contributed over the half decade and so many have benefitted. In the end it was free and without alot of pretense but not without it growing pains drama no and then.
I have alot more respect no for those that are doing it right and less for those that are just in it for a quick buck and some fleeting fame.
Hopefully in the end no matter whether it’s crap or a design diamond the task was done for the love of it versus anything else…
I still buy from the best out of respect for their knowledge and the dues they’ve paid but I make my own to play and learn about mostly how not to do things in the future. No matter how they look or ride you always learn something from the experience of doing it versus talking about it.
Fast prototyping is how you get to the next level in any type of manufacturing venture.
And Dave,
Erik Arakawa was monkeying around with unglassed XPS reshape in the water stuff in the early 90’s. Just bring your sandpaper with you when you go surfing…
Quote:
And Dave,Erik Arakawa was monkeying around with unglassed XPS reshape in the water stuff in the early 90’s. Just bring your sandpaper with you when you go surfing…
I remember reading that in Surfing magazine years ago. Always wondered what foam it was. Thanks.
Quote:
The thing about design is that some days a particular board design lights up, other days its pretty average.
I think that is the ultimate challenge for a designer of surfboards. A board that performs well in a variety of conditions. Dave Parmenter mentioned that a longboard gun could handle what would normally take a six board quiver.
I also believe that future surfboard designs will not only involve the shape of the board but also materials and placement.
For the last thirty years it’s been pretty much poly with two on the deck and one on the bottom. I think that is being challenged now by some surfboard builders which will hopefully bring about the next “longboard gun”.
For me sway’s is a great way to keep the monkey brain occupied.Idle hands and the devil stuff ect.
All of my boards are an organic process and Sway’s does not help in the crazy ideas department.
Opps I did it again! From the Hump Back fin discussion,thanks SOFA here is your lumpy fin.The wife took the kids to a movie tonight. New board may be a single fin now.I just need to make three more boards to test my current idea’s.
Most of my boards are hard to explain even to my friends.New boards are just a test to prepare for the next ones.
Never been happy with what was in the surf shops for me in my local.I made a magic LBgun that worked from 3ft to 10ft+.
A 9’4" blank shaped for winter at first, didn’t finish it until summer so I cut off the back 6".
Imagination is more important than knowledge (A Einstien).
Knowledge is limited.
Free discussion from all walks of life breed creativity.
I am just a garage guy kook goofing around but I am learning all the time,
I’m a builder. I’m proud to be a builder.
I’m working on a few designs but I will always be a builder.
Waves were fun today…
Ray
Credible designers can be I dentified by their quality sunglasses , italian shoes , and their golf clubs.
If they are worth their salt they are the expensive ones,not from Cost-co, Wallmart or burt and ernie’s
house of hot cheap surf and skate wear.
a hot designer often has a team of designers that he,or she ,fronts their stuff cause He ,OR SHE ,has
gotten recognition of elaborate claims of knowing a great deal.
that said,every design must be tested.
so does that mean the best designers has the best team or battery of testers? … yep…
does that mean that this is also possible to design a credible wave vehicle
without a test team…yep…
the trick or success of a design is making it work.
or perhaps demonstrating "HOW IT WORKS’’
If you dont want a board that doesnt spin out
a board that tail slides or helicopters
has a design flaw,It spin-drifts well
perhaps under control.
If a board sideslips down the face
and you the rider falls face first
this is a setback.
If you make the side slip
and the peanut gallery goes into
wow convulsions you are designer
of the year!
MAKE A BOARD,MAKE IT WORK
A builder not ham stringed bY a plan
IS A DESIGNER!
A technician is a good board builder
a good replicator and a good employee.
SWAYS IS THE WORLD CAPITAL OF
BUILDER-DESIGNERS.
Getting paid is a criterion over laid
much of art and craft work as a means
to determine credibility,
''It ain’t necessarily so.
{‘‘sporti’n life’’ Porgy and Bess
rogers and hammerstein}
Sways I say
has created "A BALANCE’’
perhaps a new balance
not based on commercial success
and also not recognized
Yet.
the documentation of design
alternatives is the element that has
been a coincident of these threads on forum.
said it before , the Blue campfire
is before you as you gaze long and hard
into the flame you can see change
or maybe not.More or maybe less
than ya’ll
see at the sports fair
where all the manufacturers ply their wares.
…ambrose…
a discerning eye is mandatory.
and as has been proven ,
one eye is enough.
nice post ambrose
zen and the art of surfboard building
in analogy to thing-no-thing
imho…
Thanks for the thoughts ambrose - I’ll miss my test run this summer, but I believe you would approve. My thanks again to you, and Topper for the education.
The energy flows in mysterious ways.
Viva la Revolution!
For that matter - Thanks to the Sway family: Stoke, sharing, inspiration, and… STOKE!!!
I could not agree more. With only 2 years in the water surfing I’ve just finished my second compsand board. They both look pretty good, and with my surfing ability they work well. All of the posts here have allowed me to skip numerous trial and error boards. The wealth of information and details gives anyone a pretty solid starting point from shape to rails to fin placement. Combine that with a board or 2 lying around for comparison sake and build away. The design aspect really has not come into play for me… yet. Now with #3 in my head and a somewhat better grasp of the building process I’m starting to have a unique idea here and there. So for me, in order of proficiency, its builder, surfer, designer…
A few shots of #1 and #2 and a quick thanks to all the contributors here… especially Burt for giving it all up.
#001
#002
Right on Point - Great lookin stuff. Fill in your “user profile” so we can get a better idea of who you are and where you’re comin’ from. I for one like to click on someone’s name and learn a little more about 'em.
Thanks for Playin’
Built like a pro. I ESPECIALLY like the sharp, tail rail treatment. you have done well.
Thanks guys. Once I found a video of a loxbox install and the use of a resin dam(tape) the sharp rail came into play… #001 not so sharp.
don’t over think
it is just a surfboard…
most design is personal taste mixed with bs
if you built and board and it pleases your eye and hands and you or the person you made it for has fun on it you designed it well…
John shares my opinions on the progression of designs, especially that what will work for one person may not for another. Commercial shapes by high volume mfgrs. are all pretty much the same, and presently, they saturated the market and sales are very competitive. As a result, they try and come up with niche-market designs to try and differentiate themselves, like the step-deck model John has shown. These may work fine for some people on this forum and non-builders as well, but they are more hype than design innovation. Find out what works for you and then build it. I’ve have custom shapes done by some very renowed shapers which didn’t work at all for me, but taught me invaluable lessons about design for “me”.
In my own opinion, Sway’s provides the toolbox to create your design. As materials and methods are complex and labor intensive to execute our design, we tend to focus more on those things. It takes time to make boards, and if we could just shape foam and take it right into the water, then we would probably be imbalanced on the design side.
My mood today is that, with one exception, every shape has already been shaped. Not a bad thing, but in terms new territory, going boldly where no man has gone before, that boat left and has already returned. I’m left in my garage tinkering with different builds, different combo’s of stuff that has gone before.
(FWIW, Been under the weather for a while and noticably cranky. Not noticable by me, but by others. ha. )
I’m still wowed by the resin tint and swirl thread. The “show us your wood’” thread is amazing. WMD is advancing. Inegra is cool. Quads are quadrupling. But the common thread is it is all about the build. Tempted to just shut up and enjoy the ride, but re-read this thread and decided to bump.
BTW, the exception for me is asymetricals. When I get over this flu, I WILL pursue this.