the eps we use to get was horrible over the last two years the Manufactures have improved greatly. Extra screening saves from spackling.
[quote="$1"]
we should be building retros in composites eh''
They could be bullet proof!
[/quote] I love your new exploration...............no doubt you and i will do some playing with this, As far as going with this approach to "retro's" the only problem with that is that the intrinsic ride of 'what we did then' as opposed to mixing it up with new composite approaches is that the ride remiscient of then will not be the same..........so in A PURIST SENSE this is a NO GO.........at least for me, because I would be turning my back on surfing history. But as far as taking the new materials and construction methods and applying them to NEW POSSIBLITIES, I'm all for that............
........I can't hep reflecting a bit and feeling like the 60's was rich in striking new ground in many facets........film making, fashion, surfboard building, social change...........music..........on and on. The 70's was a recoil or perhaps even a 'hangover' from the 60's. The 80's began our age of materialism and prosperity until it reached a point of decadence and subsequent disdain for excess. The 90's ressembled the 70's yet more sophisticated only to be fostered into a rebound of utter decadence, greed and more disdain and utte irresponsiblity for social equity..............branding, banks predatory practices, unparalleled CEO adnd corporate rewards at the expense of every man. those practices defied the most fundamental Vulcan priniciple: the benefit of the many outweighs the benefit of the few"..................Spock.
The only hope is that man's ability to dream, and continue dreaming provides a ray of sunshine peaking through life's strands of ascending seaweed that may salvage our own self destructive and myopic predilections.
"All intelligent life dream, we don't know why"...............Spock.
Your assement is pretty correct. Let us say it would be intesting to do a REDUX of sorts on the designs of the past few decades with moderizing foil and fin systems wrapping them in a new tech direction of light weight materials and methods. Maybe the proper term would be: AVANT GARDE?
I have a couple more PRO's who want in on this. Been finding out that there are even more possiblities in these build combinations. My postings have slowed down as my standard board orders have been consuming most of my time. I thought about DALE VELZY's approch of burning board orders when you have too many however that would be delusional. However It does feel good to get a lot of shaping time in lately. With all the good surfing conditions people are thinking about surfing again!
yea thats it burn your bra burn your bridges burn those pesky f###ing orders wellcome to the wonderfull world off huie??
yea thats it burn your bra burn your bridges burn those pesky f###ing orders wellcome to the wonderfull world off huie??
Love it!
This kinda reminds me of
"Buy all of the guns and...explode them in space (Mars Bonfire, Steppenwolf).
Avante Garde could be a legit term to use when describing a Retro design w/new tech construction. However, for myself, in the 80's I took old design ideas and married them with new tech back then. I then named it the "Back to the Future" Model, which was a shortboard with a McTavish inspired V Bottom planshape (amongst other things) then glassed them in white opaque epoxy and 1 lb. EPS........I had demos, and people loved them. I was accused of making "hollow boards" and this was around 1983. Funny enough one of these board inspired a set designer to paint it into the "s
Surf Vietnam" mural that appeared in the movie "Back to the Future 2". My Fowler logo appeared on the board behind the Professor and Michael J Fox about 15 minutes into the film, however I noticed the video formatting had the F of my logo cutoff later on. I was shocked when I saw this at the premiere as I had nnot paid for product placement nor had any idea how it appeared until about 6 months later.......
Sometimes life imitates art.
[quote="$1"]
we should be building retros in composites eh''
They could be bullet proof!
[/quote] surfding , I been doin older shapes for some years . When I look back through the changes , there's so many designs that have been pushed aside to make way for the next big thing , and never been fully developed to their potential . I had an interesting coversation recently about the vee-bottom plastics .,and I wanna do one , with a few changes in mind. I think they lost popularity too quick.
**kayu pl machine v worst boards ever spin out machine from the spin king himself. **
anyway the v bottom was stollen from midget who was smart enough to relise they did not work all that well’’
**some nice single fins built through out the seventys
**
Yeah Huie , I couldn't agree more about their performance which is what has intrigued me about them for years . They had flaws and I think I have worked out a solution. There was many different interpretations and many of em were complete lemons . Bobby Brown nailed it at Sandon and Cronulla Piont on an 8' 8" . I came across an 8' 8" Sam Egan a few years back, and grabbed the outline---its sweet as ! (maybe a bit wide-24"!! ) and yeah Midget was usually 1 or 2 steps ahead. I been thinkin about this one for too long . I should start soon
"When I look back through the changes , there's so many designs that have been pushed aside to make way for the next big thing , and never been fully developed to their potential."
Yes... could not agree more. IMO there were also some really clean longboard designs that HAD been refined to their full, or nearly full potential that suddenly became obsolete. Fins, foils and rocker were really dialed right about then when suddenly.... POOF! They vanished during the 'next newest thing' shortboard frenzy.
It was 20 years or so before longboard designs were again recognized as valid. Even now they are met with some degree of skepticism by the media influenced masses.
yeah JM, I normally ride mid to late 60's stuff , with a few changes-- a little bit lighter, but not too much.............always a challenge to shape ( for me anyway )......Lance Carson shines.......is he still makin boards ? also some excellent Oz boards from that time . A real one can be expensive !
We've been making some really heavey glassed volan boards with 50/50 rails and very little rocker and lots of tail flip you can nose ride for so long it's ridiculous. Still ride a shortboard however I like the glide of longboard in the right conditions.
Lance Carson still shapes I heard however his boards are very expensive and rightfully so!
I've been sick with the H1N1 virus. Brutal!
Anyway I'm behind schedule. Board one will be done this week. Board two was bagged this morning. I try something complicated for me. I lapped the rails with Innegra. Now I know why our glassers at the shop won't touch it..I gave the squeege to my wife and said you do it I'm over it. She say's to me, "This is easy haven't you ever wrapped presents?" I think she likes vacuum bagging more than I do. Anyway I will pull it out in a few hours. John Mellor gave me some hot tips that worked out prettly good. I also switch bagging material to a Stretchlon 600 pretty killer stuff. I plan on making a vacuum table to make things easier as I go into production. The Innegra is white opague however you can see some of the core work I have into the blank:
Wrapping rails in Innegra is crazy. I pulled it off however for production it's not practical.
all this vac baging 1 shot a big load off crap
ding you are going to wast a lot of mony & all that will happen is you will go back to were you started
Huie your are a Prophet!
I have some cores all worked out. The first one I did has worked out so well and was easy to build. The second one I tried to get fancy. I love the core of the second one however the bagging was a bit complicated. My third one will have a Secrete Sauce Core with a simple bag operation then wet lam. I haven't wasted too much money at this point. The second board so far has taken more time than I like and found that the method I choose was impratical from a production stand point. However the core is the key anyway and a lot of people have been deceived in to a compicated build even myself took one left turn however I've seen the easier way from the first one so I will turn back and stay on course. Thanks for looking out for me and keeping me focus. Now I have to finish #2 up even if it surfs well it would cost way to much money to produce. #3 with be strong, light and production friendly. The surfing part I'm looking forward to the most. We have some professional camera man to document the results. The Ocean is our Lab.
Michael
(Surfding)
Surfding, have you got any results or ride reports to share? how did they turn out?
scot
I have gone in a different direction. Huie is right about bagging in one shot. It's Crap!
I will report on the ride and new materials that are amazing!
Too many board orders right now so I don't have time to bag.
15 orders in one day. Pretty Supid.
I have a friend that has been glassing for 35 years who brought over a board that was layed up by hand.
Epoxy, S Cloth, 1.5 EPS Stronger than you can imagine and light as can be. His Hand layups make vacuum bagging a waste of time.
Plus there are materials lighter and brighter than Innegra and just as strong and cheaper.
I'm not saying I'm not playing however there are many other options.
Post some more stuff next week.
For anyone to say : " Vacuum bagging is a waste of time" carries the same weight as: “hand laminating is under-utilizing a glass laminate”… Both are correct, both are incorrect…
I vac bag everything… core-cell skins,bamboo skins, core-cell rails, bamboo or corecell fins , etc…
Is it a waste of money ? No, not to me, as I’ve done it for 20 years and have learned how to cut costs/materials, and most imporatantly, / cosmetic / structural flaws…
Hand lamination is cool with me, and is probably used in over 80% of the normal surfboard builds… These laminates generally look and perform great…
I used to build wind surf boards, and I now build kite -surf craft…
These boards see higher impact / stress loads and usually require more layers of glass or HD core for added strength… Hand lay- up of these boards would add too much weight, would not be as strong, but would definately cut down on material costs and labor…
You have to decide what you’re willing to spend in time/effort, and cash…
Professional kite-surfboards built using the construction material and labor intensive methods similar to my boards, sell for $700 to $1000 … Will everyone want to buy one?? No, But who cares?, you can’t please everyone… " "You only get what you pay for ", or are willing to pay for…
Is vac. bagging the answer to all situations? No… Is hand lamination. ?? No…
You’re right, The core is the most critical aspect, where there are nearly infinite combinations…
I’d consider Innegra a form of skin/core, not a true laminate…
Do what you feel is right…