The Firewire Fights or Board Porn gone bad (Warning Picture Heavy)

General Discussion
41

Craftee and Chipfish

It makes more sense to me to surf each board with its optimum set of fins. The board would then surf at its best. Granted it will be like comparing apples and oranges but at least it will be comparing ripe apples against ripe oranges.

With enough detail about the surfer,conditions, good points,bad points its probably possible to make an informed judgement.

Is it possible to video the boards in action?

I’d like the 5 fin to do well because I’m hoping some others from the UK will want to order one and share delivery cost. PM me if anyone is interested.

Mark

42

must confess …

when I first saw it , I thought “firewire” … thick ?, big fin TWIN fin , with big butt crack …

WHY ??

I wonder if they will sell THEM in Australia ??

…bert ? speedneedle ? oldy ?

I’d have figured 6’4" thruster for you , oneula …19" wide , 2 and whatever eps thickness …???

would you ride something like that against a standard polyurethane blank thruster ?

harry / sharkcounty …

what width and thickness would your standard , say 6-6’4 thrusters be , I wonder ?

and how do you guys find fishes in hawaiian surf …do many people ride those twin keel deep butt crack thingys in hawaiian hollow surf nowadays

43

Get the dims and find a local shaper. Cheaper and you’ll be supporting custom shapes in your area.

44

Hi Ben,

I can’t say anything about riding the fish in North Shore waves since I don’t go up there anymore.

I can tell you that I’ve riddne the 5-fin fish in double over head south shore and I don’t have any problems taking it out in the biggest south shore surf. This board doesn’t ride like anything I’ve used before. It has the looseness of a fish, the bite of a thruster and speed that no other board has. The only drawback may be in it’s wave catching, but I’ve dropped into waves under the lip, behind the peak, and have been able to power a hard bottom turn that puts me right back into the sweet spot on the wave.

I only have 1 thruster now, a 7-2 BK gun. That board is fast and can make some really hard driving turns, but it’s very stiff in comparison to the 5-fin. If I was surfing bigger waves (at least double overhead) and needed to get into the waves earlier, the BK would be the board to go with. I don’t think I’ll be getting another thruster ever. It will be quads, twins, or 5-fin for short boards, and single or quad for longer boards. I want to try making a couple of longer twins to see how they ride. I think that we’ve come so far with fin placement, size, etc. that a twin might be a good alternative to a single.

45

nice lineup of boards ,have had a few epoxys in my time if your first impressions are not great more than likely they will stand with some of the usual pluses and minuses.all boards work and in the right hands they all work with ease.the true tests would be to get someone like slater or curren to test em all and give feedback what a dream.but it doesnot invalidate someones preference over theirs.that being said it by no means invalidates your conclusions it just alllows for debate.what everyone is searching for is the holy grail of surfboards but the grail is a evassive as the wave variables on the planet.who shaped the firewire ?get one shaped by the shaper in poly to mimic the qualities that the epoxy is attributed to have then we got a test. maybe get bill b to make to identical boards with the latest stuff and poly for a certain wave conditions how about it bill?or maybe bill already has an concluded? aloha

46

i can tell you now

bert wouldnt build a composite fish like that by his own free will

it goes against what he shown in all his posts

its basically for making money

fish sell whether they work or not!

i agree with craftee

also i bet tajhs boards arent 7 pounds

prolly more like 5 or less

that 5 fin is nice board btw

47

“…prolly more like 5 or less .”

much less.

48

We saw some EPS boards that Jeff Johnston and Jim Richardson are making for guys like Andy Irons. They are so light that they feel about as heavy as a feather. These guys are so far ahead of a lot of guys with the EPS/Epoxy construction.

They also use a variety of Marko foam and they are getting things to the point where PU/PE won’t be the way to go soon.

Personally, I haven’t figured out why these super light boards are so popular, but then again I don’t surf like AI or TB.

49

Snip

Quote:
maybe get bill b to make to identical boards with the latest stuff and poly for a certain wave conditions how about it bill?or maybe bill already has an concluded? aloha

Aloha Privateer

I might be up for that? I will talk to Jason (Resin Research here) and see if he wants to help do a duplicate board in Styropoxy. I am pressed for time at the moment (what’s new) but maybe I could squeeze this project in. Would be fun to take a fresh look at this again.

Give me an idea of the length, width, thickness for a basic Tri Fin that Swaylockers in Hawaii would feel comfortable on to try out and give feedback on. Maybe something more conservative and cruisey that everyone could try.

50

Firewire Test Run 2

Unfortunately the waves today were only a thord of the size of yesterday by I’ve had some other more important commitments to take care of this weekend that playing around being unproductive surfing. Sometime I think we forget here that that’s all it really is unless your making your living off off of it. It’s no science or religion it’s goofing off no matter how you look at it…

Anyway being that the waves looked so small I decided to check out this monstrosity before I turned it over to the guy I built it for to see if it was even rideable. It the monstrosity on the right. A 6’6"x23.5"x4.5" beast of EPS blue dow bamboo balsa in an epoxy and fusion mix.

Looks like it will work for the guy who is 30-50lbs heavier than me but I sure had a heck of a time sinking the rail or tail to initiate a turn. Flew like a bat out of hell until I had to turn it then it was an out of control mack truck with skewers on the front. After about a dozen waves I gave up before I killed someone…

Anyway I finally got my 6’4"x21"x3" Mandala Quad back this morning from the guy I let borrow it three months ago so I decided to get aquainted with it again. To my surprise I couldn’t turn it for beans. Which tells me that the boards I’m currently riding are all big backfoot oriented boards and I’m just too locked in to doing everything off the tail now… So after another hour of so I decided to go in and look for the guy I made the bomboocha Gemini for. But true to his nature it was still too early for him being only 8:30AM where as I was out at 5:30AM.

So I decided to give the Firewire another test eventhough I was skeptical with the waves being so weak and small. A bunch of the bruddas on the beach who ride Surtech longboards were checking it out and asking me alot of questions I couldn’t answer. Especially like where can you buy one of these in Hawaii…HaHa Good one…

First thing I noticed is that the board floated unreal paddling out was as good if not better than my Mandala which is way beefier than my 6’2" Griffin 5fin. I was definitely and happily impressed caused paddling back out for your third session in a row on a new board can be down right painful especially when you are going down in size.

Anyway it turns out it is exactly what I thought the problem was.

Because this session was a heck of alot more fun than the first one I had on it yesterday.

Could be the first two boards were dogs compared to the 5-fin but once I got the pump pump scoot scoot action going on the thing the board was going all over the place. Basically its like hopping and skipping or doing these little wacks all over the place but the board was alot of fun. I didn’t get the sensation of carving any of my turns or feeling the power of the wave under my feet liek on the 5fin but more like I was avoiding contact with the water like skipping stones. I can really see how this would fit Taj’s style cause you can really boost these things if you like doing that, just that’s not my style. When I watched all the hot guys leaving big spray that was exactly their style 10 million turns while traversing laterally 5 feet. That’s why light boards are so important for them cause they don’t want boards with any type of momentum built into them at all or they can’t change direction that fast.

As far as 5fins versus two…

All I can say is that in the water today there were at least 3 other guys with brand new boards from some top name local shapers that all had 5-fins on them.

So why now?

Word get out or something?

hmmm such is the fickleness of board building here…

Is this Firewire fish any better than my Surftech Al Flyer?

At this point all I can say it I haven’t seen any extra magic yet that I haven’t seen with what’s already available off the shelf today…

Maybe I was expecting the damping effect of Jim Richardson’s Surflight boards or the spring of my goant slolam skis on a packed snow carve, I don’t know but at least things are looking real good for some more lab work. Shark Country will try to get his hands on this soon I’m sure… Don;t know if I’lll end it out since the last time I did it I didn’t get my board back for almost 3 months.

Sorry I couldn’t put in more test time this weekend but it’s been a sad time at the house as I had to euthanize our trusted family companion of the past 15 years because of increasing severe athritis in her hind legs. It was a running joke who would go first her or me as we both hobbled around the house on our bad legs. I cleaned her up good yesterday and we took her down to the humane society today to do the deed and cried our eyes out as we watch them take her away. We then went and spent some time at my pops gravesite since he’s the one who brought her home over 15 yeas ago. Tonight’s a very sad time here at home the dog brought a sense of completeness to household no matter how bad it got for her. First pop in April and now his Babe in August. Here’s my favorite shot of Gustave and Babe playing with Shark Country’s daughter when times were much better. That young girl is in high school right now… So in my reality all this sways banter is garbage in comparison to the things that really matter in life. And that’s not surfing for sure…

Gustave and Babe

51

Bill

if you want to check this out let me know I can bring it up for you to examine.

I have to return some a demo to Griff and was going to let Griff take a look at it give his insights since he’s not a big proponent of either Epoxy or EPS at this time…

I might have Jim and Jeff take a look at it as well with their experience with Surflight and Aviso they might have some interesting insights into the design.

Personally I agree with Silly and Craftee

this isn’t a Sunova but possible more a Surftech/Southpoint clone of Bert’s design for mass production. The construction method would be better presented as a custom than an off the shelf. Bert may have gotten himself in a Marketing pickle with the money peeps.

The question is whether this all can be achieved with just some proper glassing of an EPS core without using all this fancy buzzword tech. Or whether it’s really better than XTR or what Jim folks are already doing with Marko blanks or what Greg’s been doing with his epoxies for years.

52

Oneula,

Condolences on the dog- I know how hard that can be (my mum wouldn’t talk to anyone for days after our family pooch finally went.)

Given the pressures of earning a living and having a family life on Oahu, let alone being as involved in making surfboards as you are, I’m amazed you get much time in the water at all, so to have you doing a surfboard UFC for our entertainment and education is brilliant, especially when I have beautiful weather, a new truck, boards I like, a just-received package of goodies from Downing Surf and NO WAVES! If it wasn’t for this thread (and Sway’s in general) I’d be banging my head on the desk.

Kirk

53
Quote:

1] to be fair , can you re-do this test with griffins “5 finner” as a twin , with the same fins and positioning as on the firewire , please ??

Actually I was going to do the opposite and swap out griffs fins for those monsters on the firewire. I like Griff’s fin designs

Any way I have a 6’4" griff twin demo but it’s a completely diferent planshape But I’ll give the 5 finner a go with the same fin on both baords to equalize the scenerio. But in my opinion it’s a your best fighter versus my best fighter rumble winner take all battle in this business right? At least that’s what the money guys are hoping for with the mass produced stuff…

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2] I have felt four [and 5] fins giving more ?drive / holding power? than my twinny setup on the bushfire fish , also

With griff it’s so much more than just the fins and the desing of each fin but what the bottom, the rocker, the outline and the rail curve are doing along with the fins in different parts of the wave. I don’t see anyone here other than Jim Phillips or maybe Greg who seems to talk the same language. We seem fascinated with trying to isolate performance with one or two aspects of the product than looking at the design of the entire product holistically and where it’s gonna be ridden and by who least we forget that too. I think this is what seperates the traditional old school shapers from the new school machine bred and removable fin bred ones. They kind of look at the whole problem not just a part of it. How many shapers design and foil their own fins anymore?

The 5fin basically rides like any modern high performance chip thruster except it’s a fish so it’s small. I could never ride a 6’2" chip at my size normally my high performance boards run 7’2" or bigger then you run into the problem with the added length in the real curvy part of the wave where the high performance is supposed to come into play. Flex like what Bert, Gary Young(Bamboo Surfboards), and Surflight are supposed to provide in my mind would allow the tail to bend into this curve and blast you out instead of having a giant PU spear you are trying to pivot around in the classical single fin way. At least that’s what I think the magic elixer Bert’s trying to sell us here. Could be wrong though, been wrong alot of times before.

Quote:

3] can a lighter person repeat this test please ? [say , someone around 150-180lbs [no offence mate , I’d just like to hear and see how THEY would surf it ]

I’ll try and convince SharkCountry to try it(which won’t be hard) he’s around 155-160 and believes he’s a better surfer than me anyway. I was going to let my other friend(Mr. XTR) try it but he’s like 120 and didn’t even like the 6’2" bushman I had cause it was too big…Again the importance of light boards for wakah’s as I like to call them cause they wack the lip with big spray over and over again. I think someone once called Curren a “rainbird sprinkler” for this phenomena.

Quote:

4] does switching from a longer board and single fin old school style to a lighter board thruster / twin fin style come into play here too, perhaps ? [another reason why I would like to read / see fotage of how , for instance , a 25yo 160/170lb thruster rider would adapt / surf the ‘Firewire’ [in particular] differently . I remember reading in ‘Surfer’ how Daniel Thompson hopped on a twin keel , surfed it like a thruster first time , because he had no bias to tell him "that’s not how they are meant to be surfed ".

Yes it does

Personally I think a young hot surfer would like this board if not just for the hype and fame in the lineup it would bring them. I usually try to surf off by myself ( so I can get more waves actually)

But then again some of these young guys are just closed minded(media biased) about it this kind of stuff.

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5] the floatation / belly button test …WHERE would the water “come up to” on a lightweight like me , I wonder [155lbs] … and how would the firewire paddle for ME , as someone 45lbs lighter ?

It’d be like riding a mini-mal for you the board has alot of float for it’s size. Which I like cause I can fluctuate seasonally 10-15 pounds depending on water/work time.

Quote:

…do you know a few “light” Hawaiians , who could test it ?

I think some long time shapers like griff or johnson or barnfield might be the call for a “guru” reaction and I’m open to that especially griff cause he doesn’t use or believe in an EPS epoxy board. Let those guys make the final call not me…

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6] what size was the ‘test surf’ …head high , 1’ overhead , 2’ overhead , etc ? surface …bumpy , smooth ? wind …offshore , none , sideshore , onshore ?

First test over head to 1.5 times over head(face) smooth as glass dropping tide between 1.75’ to 1’ over zero heavy crowd action.

Second test chest to head high(face) smooth as glass dropping tide between 1.75’ to 1’ over zero rapidly dropping and weakening swell

If I could’ve stayed longer each day I would’ve had more fun testing the fish battling the longboarders and I really missed out Thursday and Friday afternnon from what I hear… The unfortunate life of a salaryman I guess.

Personally I prefer a plus one rising tide but pre-dawn patrol before any wind kicks up because we either get strong sideshore exactly at 9AM or onshores once the land thermals kick in where I live versus in Town or elsewhere where it’s offshore mostly.

too technical?

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7] REMEMBER that chart that you were going to use ?

[or , are you writing those findings separate to here , to be “tabulated” later ?? ]

After a couple more tests with my brother I’ll do a spreadsheet of the 1-5 ratings in each catagory for comparison

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8] what about HARRY ???

WHEN will HE get to surf it , so you can film him , too, please ?

Yeah I figure that will be the only way for you to see it since I usually surf alone. He’s hoping I don’t like it so big brother will give it to him to smash to pieces like he does with all his boards. It’s just another surfboard to him and he rides them into the ground smash into the reef, his body or other people etc etc until he needs another one.

54

These 2 boards are being made as complete designs . Shape and fins. Firewire claims their different materials will make thier boards better. As you can see a well tuned design even in low tech materials is better.I have nothing against styro-epoxy boards and would like to build them. I work for T&C and they only want to use my skills as a longboard shaper. I would love to work with a company like Firewire or any other in developing higher level designed and built boards.I am willing to travel to any location to do this.As an example of what i can do i will make Bernies Firewire work better.

55

Bert and crew believe me, you should give Griff a call cause there’s alot he could bring to the table with his “unsupported” multi fin designs in both short and longboards. Why not take advantage of his trade secrets if his employer doesn’t want anything to do with them. Maybe Jason Troy can hook you folks up…

Griff

the 5-fin rocks no questions asked

I wish more people would try them out and see for themselves.

Harry said he let another friend try his this weekend and he’ll be placing his order for one soon

When Satori gets his maybe he can provide some independant feedback too

the more the better.

I saw two wannabe clones this weekend by some other local brand name guys which I though was both funny and sad with your current predicament.

I also saw a guy named Steve who had one of your quads with some weird logo on it. He said he was a longboarder but really liked the quad fish even though paddling was a challenge…

I finally got to ride the 5-fin in some juice and it was a blast.

Accelerates around corners from behind with big bottom turns and whips around in the hook without any loss of speed. And with a more balanced open stance you pretty much can mind surf which means that what ever lines you see on the wave the board just follows no thinking no prep no moving around. Just do your dance since the board and you are one. It’s as fast as the gemini but never catches an edge and it 10 times better on the backhand.

I was surprised at how many guys just can’t make sections anymore big beautiful walls and big move guys popping up in the white water later just blowing it. With the afterburners you get when the 3 rear fins kick in you never have to be worried of falling behind even in the white water you can just blow forward to catch up. Makes you want to just drop in on everyone cause usually you’re taking off so deep everyone is trying to drop in on you… Very frustrating…

One of of your multifin boards in an epoxy perimeter railed EPS version might be unstoppable but these are super light and because of that they are floppy and bouncy. I’ll bring it up so you can try her out for yourself and draw your own conclusions…

Hopefully you can be Firewire’s first “guest” shaper as they venture into the program as the rest of the high tech brands out there.

It fits the profile.

I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed for you…

Seriously Firewire give him a call or have him send you or Jason a board to try…

56
Quote:
Bill

if you want to check this out let me know I can bring it up for you to examine.

Sure… Drop by I will take a look!

57

Hey Oneula,

I can’t believe it. Is this true?

Quote:

As an example of what i can do i will make Bernies Firewire work better.

Is Griffin going to foil you some fins (or whatever he’s going to do) that will make your firewire into a super surfboard?

Wow. this is like watching the WWF. Just when you think a guy’s down for the count, out comes his manager with a folding chair to his opponent. I can’t wait to see this!! make sure to post some pics of the Griffin/Firewire hybrid.

Cheers,

Rio

58

Yeah, can’t wait for my 5-fin. Its not the same as your model, Bernie, its a 6’6", very similar to a couple that Greg posted in the Resources about a month ago. He refers to it as his thruster model, narrower profile than a fish, and a very small swallow. I’m not a great shortboarder, more of a longboard guy, but I’m eager to see what Greg’s design will do for me. Thats funny you mentioned “wannabe clones”, I made a 5-fin fish and it was ok, but nothing special. That was actually what inspired me to order one from Greg. That, and all the praise I’ve heard from you about his boards. I’ll report on my 5-fin as soon as it gets in! Hurry up Greg! :slight_smile:

59

hey I just ride them.

I think I should just turn over to the pros like Bill and Greg and let them analyze it. I don’t doubt Griff could come up with a better fin but after looking at the board he may not even think it’s worth the effort…

But let Bill and Greg decide what they think of one in person

they can ven take it out for a test ride it as well as long as I get it back in one piece.

I’ll ty and take some up close and personal pictures of the board like Ant did so you folks can see what I’m seeing regarding the board’s construction. It supposed to be triple density foam and I can see what looks like corcel over the deck and there’s something very opaque over that much more opaque that the bottom pigment cause I can see the foam through the pigment on the bottom.

One thing I did notice is that if the bands aren’t tapered and are of even width then there alot of overlap up at the nose compared to none at the tail. For the guys that understand how that influences flex think about that one.

Also the opaque area ends way before the rail on the deck which is exposing that golden foam which I interpret as corecel which also says something. What is that stuff?

a thin sheet a last a foam over the corecel?

hmmm sometimes I wish I just didn’t care

Also I’m convinced my incorrect observation of aeromat on the deck was true since the little round marks that look like aeromat seem to be dissapearing over time. I’m assuming they were left from the bubble wrap packing on the white surface.

you folks can take it from they once you see the pics…

I don’t want to speculate anymore, trying to ride well it is hard enough

60
Quote:

Griff could come up with a better fin but after looking at the board he may not even think it’s worth the effort…

What would he know of the flex of a perimeter stringer composite board? I’m sure he is an expert of PU/PE from what I’ve seen him post here. But different materials and construction would need experience with them to know what is best. Compare only another in PU/PE of the same shape, foil and fin setup with your Firewire.