THE GRANGE- new fin design with Futures Base.

General Discussion
1

With thanks for technical discussions from Swaylockers Bill T, TaylorO and BenChipper.

I wondered if I could create a fin that would have more positive characteristics like drive, hold and pivot.  Where could I develop fin design that would add something new ?  Adding control, scope, or just add a new dimension to surfing.

I started making 'single tabbers' to see what happens when the elements are moved around, I started with a 'pivot' and a 'drive' finlet and put the pivot in front and moved them apart and together.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/P2020020.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/P2030033.jpg[/IMG]

 Same cant, same toe-in... at the moment.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/cleaverSMALL20111003-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/april2011144.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/april2011142.jpg[/IMG]

 And I used more conventional fin designs too.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/3.jpg[/IMG]

 The first thing I found was that finlets need to be either within close proximity of one another to enhance one another ( ie superchargers and the like) or seperated by a certain distance for them to perform individually.

 Ive chosen to combine multiple fin shapes close together to the point where 2 finlets become a single fin with each finlet bringing its own characteristics.

 More pics available later on. 

2

howdy surffoils,

in short-- fin placement-induced flow channels ? sounds intriguing !

cheers,

3

[quote="$1"]

in short-- fin placement-induced flow channels ? sounds intriguing !

cheers,

[/quote]

 Surfiber, thats the essence of whats to come.... where the joint effect is greater than the sum of the parts acting alone. In part loaned from  Bill  Thrailkills  'Double Single'  fins.

 Thanks for the reply.

4

hi surffoils,

bonzer 5 had me at first glance hehe now i know why " )

cheers,

5

[quote="$1"]

hi surffoils,

bonzer 5 had me at first glance hehe now i know why " )

cheers,

[/quote]

 This fin design incorporates a bit of Bonzer, a bit of Quad, a bit of Starfin design.  I'll take down the earlier photobucket link because its a spoiler for whats to come.

6

sounds very very intriguing !

btw the link didn’t work earlier-- i won’t be able to view the uploaded images further above until i go online later at home.

in any case, i’m very much inclined to try that far-forward fin cluster experiment (near or around the board’s center), with a bonzer 5 side fin set and a wavegrinder center fin. for shortboard maneuvers on a longboard hehe fly or fail it’ll be solely financed by several months’ loose change outta my pocket " )

cheers,

7

Sir Fiber , You got loose change in your pocket !!! Holy crap all my loose change goes to put gas in my wifes car so she can go to Macys and buy bras and underwear with money she got loose from my wallet ! Surf Oils good luck with your fin experiments. Reminds me of my fin experiments with windsurf boards in the 1980 and 90s. Was a lot easier to feal what the fins are doing at high speed of a windsurfer than a surfboard. To bad we didn't have those little underwater videos cameras then like they have now . Would have been neat to be able to watch what was happening with those fins. Thought about makeing a plexi glass window just in front of the fins and mounting a camara to shoot picks of the fins but never got that far .

8

Thanks for the replies and ideas, Ive got a wavegrinder fin too so it might be pressed into service on the next idea !

When I was making these one tab finlets I thought I better have a Google around and see if its already been done so I could save myself the effort. I couldnt find an exact match but I found this guy SEEKA in NZ doing this...

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/hecktourdolefinbySEEKA.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/hecktourdolefin2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/hecktourdolefin3.jpg[/IMG]

Similar but different. Funny how coincidence happens.

My finlets were giving mixed response in the surf, there was drive and pivot but predictably the pivot was overpowering so I went looking to make drive the first response.

 I measured a lot of fins especially the leading edge curve.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/P1190032.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/P1180028.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/P1180024.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/FUTURESf4HEXFIN.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/cleaverstarfin20111002-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/025-1.jpg[/IMG]

 Thankfully both FCS and Futures provide accurate images on the net to compare many designs against one another. You have to save and then scale them up to life size but its accurate.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/theGrange28211004.jpg[/IMG]

 While all fins are different, a lot of them have very similar leading edge curve which would control the feel of the fin at the start of a turn so I designed a front finlet with a similar curve.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/theGrange28211002.jpg[/IMG]

9

howdy ogre,

hmm not if i can’t help it hehe if i had enough money to burn i’d have rented an entire workshop just to be able to finish glassing my wood + plant fiber HWS hybrid " )

cheers,

10

I started making all the finlets for FCS plugs but single tab fins can only get so big and then the start to flex and snap and the FCS plugs limit where you can position the finlets.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/april2011147.jpg[/IMG]

So  I started working with a Futures base, its allows the fin to be connected with the board along the entire base.

 I made up a foam void to mould the Futures base.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/april2011032.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/april2011033.jpg[/IMG]

And started to position different finlets on the base.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/May62025.jpg[/IMG]

 I also made a plaster mold of the Futures base so I could pop out more variations.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/march2011014.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/march2011018.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/march2011020.jpg[/IMG]

11

heya surffoils,

for some reason this cluster reminds me of a sea turtle’s underside, care to share how this particular fin setup works for you?

nice!

cheers,

12

That version is by Seeka in NZ, Check www.surf.co.nz   or Google The Fin Thread.

13

double post, sorry !

14

and again, sorry.

15

Now heres the period several months ago when I made so many abominable versions that Im too ashamed to show them here .. but in the end I tested variations, made new ones and tested them again to come up with a fin that  does what I set out to do, and that was to 'add something more to the surfing experience'.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/P2130101.jpg[/IMG]

 Its a combination where the front finlet has the standard leading edge curve and a cant of 6 degrees, that gives the fin a very predictable entry feel and  hold. And has about 75 % area of a G5..

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/sias1.jpg[/IMG]

 The rear finlet has less toe in but way more cant and about 40% of a G5 fin area so as you progress thru the turn the fin offers more dimension thru the middle and end of each turn. You can turn the board further without angling / tilting the board more.

 [IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/May62020.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/P2070069.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/P2140109.jpg[/IMG] 

The Grange has more area than a standard side fin but that extra area sits within the same position as a standard fin so you get more control without using a bigger or longer fin. Its all about the flow between the finlets and especially where they overlap.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/6MAY015.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/6MAY016.jpg[/IMG] 

 Because the finlets overlap you get a multiplied effect, its a bit like a Bonzer where you can feel youve got a better hold on the water flow under the board.

 Theyre a bit like a  twinny (for those who can remember) where the magnified feeling of control comes from under each side the board.You can feel the difference on the first turn.

I make no claim of them being faster or slower, but with the finlet chords being smaller Ive made them thinner as well.The volume would be the same as a standard side fin.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/finalversionII023.jpg[/IMG]

Someones going to ask what they ride like so I'll say they ride like a concentrated quad with twin fin dominance in a thruster setup. Ha !

 [IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/finalversionII020.jpg[/IMG]

Theres a double fillet for stability. [IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/finalversionII029.jpg[/IMG]

And a slight forward overhang that accommodates the front screw.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/finalversionII030.jpg[/IMG]

 Ive ridden them without the centre fin but I need to make a bigger version to explore the limits of that twinny feel.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/finalversionII021TWIN.jpg[/IMG]

 The main difference to a single side fin is the flow between the finlets, instead of water just travelling across a side fin and then off whereever, it feels that as the water passes thru the finlets its passing thru the board.   Maybe the combination of fin angles tap into the wave energy more  ?

 Changing pressure differences like on an articulated plane wing ? 

After a year of working on The Grange I saw this on the Kinetik fin site and nearly shat myself.....

 [IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/THE_GRANGE/KinetikRacingSimilarfins11.png[/IMG]

 but despite the similarity it was just a visual coincidence.  Phew !!!

 The Grange Fins are difficult to hand make because the finlets have different cant and toe in but they wouldnt be a problem if they were molded.

 Thanks to my Sways collaborators. Most apprectated fellas !!!!

16

this thread’s gonna end up as one of best on fins, surffoils!

looking forward to hear more about how your side fins interact with other center fin options

cheers,

17

Thanks Surfiber, looks like theres just you and me here. I'll PM you.

18

howdy surffoils,

your choice-- posting your updates here will keep your inbox free from clutter hehe the others are just waiting with bated breath " )

cheers, 

19

Hey Im watching this thread too.! Your puting a lot of work into this fin set up and when you get all the bugs worked out and all the testing done some jerk off is going to steal your fin desighn and  sell them in every surfshop in the world and make a lot of money ! Only $19.99 made in china !!!  Kinda reminds me of my wifes teath (kinda over laping ) . They worked just fine but we spent a lot of money to have them fixed and now they look perfect but don't work so good !!

20

"With thanks for technical discussions from Swaylockers Bill T, TaylorO and BenChipper "

 

 .... the extent of my "technical" input ?

 

  something along the lines of "s*** yeah Brett , make 'em , ride 'em , let us know HOW they go ...

 

....and , if you can make me a proboxed pair , then I'll give them a go [or fifty !] , for sure !!"  [ I'm always keen to see  new stuff on sways , and where possible , to give it a GO !!

 

  great stuff , Brett  ....

 

 Thanks for putting up this thread ,  mate !!

 

 It all looks good so far , now if you [?we?] can get them up and running in a few numbers and designs [?SJOERD ?  could you MOULD** these , you reckon ?] for proboxes too , then if plenty? of people got to ride them , in different waves and different boards around the WORLD ...

 

.....STOKED !!!

 

   cheers !

 

     ben

 

 

** WAAAY less labour intensive that way , hopefully ...