.... " the photography thread " ??

chippy61 · June 22, 2012, 12:43pm

Last night , after running it past a fellow 'Swaylockian' , who is studying photography at present , I thought I would ask here ...

Would a question and answer thread ,

with

tips

advice

discussions of techniques

sharing of experiences

info

equipment details ,

"etc"

.....be contributed to by people , here ?

I figure there would be some really GOOD photographers , among the thousands of people who have registered at 'Swaylock's , and I , for one , would be really keen to learn from you guys !

And ...

yes , it can stay 'surfboard design and surfing related' , for those who may think it "irrelevant "... [ eg: " techniques for lighting and photographing boards " ]

perhaps some of you can suggest things you would like to learn / see covered ? [with a 'view' :) to it being an ONGOING thread ]

cheers , crew !

ben

fins · November 2, 2012, 10:07am

....good stuff , Harry ... thanks for chiming in !

I LOVED that Kodachrome 25 film , for speed blurs , and fine grain enlargements ! I wish I still had those photos . Lots of contrast , though , could be a downside , in our bright conditions here.

I love the slow shutter speed work of Ernst Haas ... I wish I'd had the ? 'kodachrome S' [or was it '2' , even ?? 2 or 8 or 12 ASA / 'ISO' , from memory ? ] Alas , even Simon was a bit too young to have used THAT film . In those days , if I was stuck with shootinmg a medium to fast speed film , a neutral density filter was about the only other option to obtain those really abstract speed blur effects I love[d] .

....THAT'S why a 'DSLR' would be REALLY handy ! Interchangeable lenses with faster apertures and filter attachment options .

Rohan's camera , though 'nice' , is only 3.5- f8 , unfortunately ....

Now , the original post you commented on ...

....it WAS on 'speed blurs' ....

Which is why the photos may look a little ...er... 'blurry' , perhaps ?

That , and the 10x optical zoom on a 200 buck 'fujifilm finepix' camera , is definately not the sharpness of my old pentax telephotos and mini telephotos , from my film camera decades !

I haven't got to 'frozen motion' [fast shutter speeds , small apertures] , yet ... slow down , you're one step ahead of me , mate ! haha

Also, can you post some of your 'speed blurs' here , please , Harry ? That would be good , and MUCH appreciated , cheers !

.....it's the PHOTOgraphy thread , I don't want to make it too 'talky' ! I'd like to see people's PHOTOS , more .

...so , please , SHOW us what you've GOT , guys ! .....

[ I will probably post a few more of my shots from film days , the black and whites , taken using a tripod and the 400mm lens , at some stage . But .... I'd really like to see OTHERS' work first , please ?]

cheers !

ben

sharkcountry · August 11, 2012, 8:36pm

Ben, the blurred photos are because of a slow shutter speed, and and or slow film speed.

You can do 2 things, if it’s a auto camera, set the exposure to sports mode ISO way up as high as you can. This will increase the shutter speed and aperature depending on how the camera decides to balance the 2. The down side is the higher the ISO to noisier or grainier the image gets.

If you have manual controls, set the camera to shutter speed mode and use at least 1/125, 1/250, the higher the more you will “stop” the action. Again you can raise the ISO to get higher shutter speed.

You should use a tripod for telephoto shots. If not, the shutter speed should always be a fraction of the length of the lens length. For a 300mm lens, you should try to shoot at a shutter speed close to 1/300. That takes out the shake from you hands. With practice you can get that down to a slower speed.

For film cameras like a 35mm SLR, apperature will change the depth of field or the area of focus in normal lenses. With telephoto lenses the depth of field will be condensed until you get closer to the infinity setting. Digital cameras are different. If you buy a DSLR with a large imager, like a full frame, it’s the same. If you buy a Digital camera that has a fixed lens, the imager is usually only 2/3" or 1/2" and that’s very small compared to a “full frame” Imager. The full frame DSLRs are usually very expensive, like at least $2000 for the body. The lower cost DSLRs usually have a smaller image that has between 1.3 to 2 times multiplier on the lens. These imagers are still quite a big larger than 1/2" or 2/3", but the lens lengths are not equal to the standard 35mm camera.They are multiplied by the factor of that camera. This means you gain some on the telephoto side, but lose some on the wide angle side.

When I started working as a TV News Cameraman in the late 70’s we had 2 choices for film, 100 or 400 ASA. Movie cameras are different from still cameras because we use 24 frames per second as the playback rate. That means everything is based on a shutter speed of 1/48 of second. With the better cameras you can adjust the mirror angle to get a higher shutter speed, but our cameras had a simple 1/2 of the frame rate speed. For photos we always used Kodachrome and it was either 25 ASA or 64 ASA. Purist would never use Kodachrome 64 because you could tell the difference in the grain. Cameras we used always had prime lenses with the wide open apperatures at f1.4, f2.0, or f2.8 and go up to f16 or f22 But, the magic lens setting is usually about f8. Great sharpness and good depth of field.

By comparison, today’s cameras almost always have a zoom lens with about f3.5 or f4.5 wide apperature, and sometimes the full zoom is f6.3 and they may only go to f11 or f16.They compensate by having good sensitivity and the ability to shoot at 1600 ASA with decent quality.

For outdoor nature shots lots of depth of field is good. For surfing, there’s usually a lot of light, so you can use higher shutter speeds. I also like the slow shutter speed and pan with the subject for sports shots it makes the back ground go out of focus and only the subject stays sharp. It takes a little practice to get it wired, but it can make some great shots. To me a great shot is one that you don’t have to crop, or edit in photoshop at all. Back in the film days, we never had these tools (although the printers could do it), so the images you bring back were all that you had.

Gotta go now… Aloha.

fins · August 11, 2012, 1:18pm

.... Here are a few 'oldies' , from my 35mm film days.

This is 'Popeye' [Pascal] ....

Anyone here still remember him ?

He was here at 'Sways' , a few years ago , now. 'Speedneedle' made him a nice twin fin . In this photo , he is riding his 9' mal . I surfed with him a fair bit a few years ago. Good bloke . ( 'IF' you still lurk here , Paz , THIS shot is for YOU , mate ! )

This is shaper Gregg 'Noddy' Macaulay , on his carbon-railed EPS shape [yes , DAVE Macaulay's brother ...two shapers in that family ! They are both GREAT surfers too ! ]

...this one went through to the 'keeper [cricket expression].....

[these are old scans from prints ... so , not as sharp as slides , I'm afraid . But , hopefully , illustrating 'speed blur ' , anyway ? ]

From memory , I mainly used 100 and 200 ISO film , and , in winter , 400 ISO [for those overcast , cold early mornings ]. Depending on if I wanted speed blur , or 'frozen' motion . One good thing about digital is being able to change the film speed for each shot , for a WIDE variety of effects , so from that viewpoint , yes , insane cutback , digital IS great ! [also for the post-shooting editing options ! ]

.....In the days when these shots were taken , I mainly used a Canon AE-1 , with a 400mm lens [manual focus] , a tripod , and a Canon 'power winder ' [? 1.5 ? frames per second ...the 1980's !].

I also had a Pentax SP1000 [SCREW MOUNT lens !] . No motordrives for that camera , wind it on by hand after each shot !

The Pentax served me very well , from 1980 , well into the '00's [?!] ... I especially loved it , with a 35mm or a 28mm lens , for skating photos !

And with a 135mm lens , for portraits [ I shot my sister's wedding , in 1991 , with that setup]

anyway , I don't want to dribble on ...

anyone out there want to post thoughts , photos , advice , questions , please ?

cheers

ben

fins · August 11, 2012, 12:42pm

sorry , 'Llilibel ' , I am pretty clueless about the whole pixel / quality / defintion / 'noise' type issues of digital.

I hope someone with knowledge in that area will chime in , Llili ? [ ....maybe 'insane cutback' , hopefully ? ]

SLOW SHUTTER SPEEDS / ' SPEED BLUR '-type photos

(To portray the movement of sports , like surfing . )

These shots I took with a friend's land camera recently .

His has a 10 times optical zoom.

The latest model has an 18 times optical zoom , and is 14 megapixels . Would be handy , in the low light I like photographing in , during early morning , and dusk [late evening] photo sessions .

From memory , the exposures on these were 1/ 15- 1/30 of a second , 'I.S.O.' set to 64 , aperture , f8. 'Panning' technique was used [following the action with the camera , while gently 'squeezing' the shutter button].

....in contrast to that technique ...

Holding the camera still , while letting the subject move across the frame , renders a sharper background , with a more blurred moving object [in the foreground ]

Factors...

besides the shutter speed , and the aperture , and the iso speed [equivalent to the film speed designation , in "the dark ages" :)] , some other factors affecting the amount of sharpness / speed blur in the resulting photo ...

* ease [or otherwise] of focus of the lens being used [ESPECIALLY if a zoom , like I was dealing with , in these shots]

* distance from the camera [ see the boat in the background , on the photo of that guy going left ]

* angle of the subject to the camera [ the guy on the shoulder is more 'frozen' / sharper [he's more 'head on' to the camera ] , compared to the right-to-left movement of the lip , on the 'bowling' / empty tube photo ]

* using [or not using] a tripod / heavy handedness with the shutter release ....

[and , with water shots , there are 'other' factors , too ! .....But I'll leave that alone ... for now ! ]

....to be continued ....

cheers !

ben , the shutterbugger

retrothis · June 22, 2012, 2:37pm

Hey chippy!

I am somewhat keen photographer!

My favorite thing to do is try unusuall perspectives of random stuff, cos getting good surf shots is friggen impossible....

Here is a small surfboard related "how to..."

To get a shot like this you'll need a basic SLR that is capable of 30 sec exposures or can be set to "BULB" (which means that the shutter will stay open for as long as you are holding down the button/ a remote that can toggle the shutter open/closes is essential for this). If you have a remote with toggle button, BULB setting is best because you can take your time.

Next you need two bicycle lights, front (white) and rear (red). Or any other types of lights...anything you want...

A TRIPOD is essential I think.

After that its pretty simple.

I set up the camera on the tripod, placed the board on the floor, checked the viewfinder to make sure all of the board was in the frame and at a pleasing angle.

I set the camera to M (manual mode)

Set the exposure to 30 sec and the aperature to f5.6 to make sure that the board was in focus nose to tail.

Focused the camera on the board and then swiched the camera to manual focus mode to stop it from trying to refocus when the lights were off.

Once all was set, I turned off the lights. Then grabbed the two bike lights and hit the shutter. After this you have 30 sec to "light the board". In my case it was 15 sec per light source.

I tried using long slow strokes, nose to tail while counting 15 sec. After first 15 sec, Id switch to the other light as efficiently as possible and do the same.

It took me 9 or 10 attempts to get a shot that i liked.

The possibilities with this are pretty extensive.

retrothis · June 22, 2012, 2:49pm

Here are a few of other shots I took over the years:

chippy61 · June 26, 2012, 3:13am

.....very nice !

thanks heaps , 'retrothis' !!

a reliable camera , good focus , nice lighting ...that [and a good tripod] helps , as much as technique and an eye for an interesting shot , eh ?!

would you care to talk us through your second post , please ?

shutter speeds , lens , apertures , that sort of thing ? [or anything else you care to share ?]

why do you think / find that a good surfing photo is hard ? just curious ...

[because it seems you have focus and shutter speed settings wired ...]

which lens[es] would you use if you were taking a lot of surfing shots , eg: how far away are your breaks ?

cheers for your participation , mate ...good on you !

11.27pm here now , off to bed ...but I'll check in tomorrow for yours and hopefully others comments and shots ? cheers mate !

peteharwood · June 23, 2012, 4:02pm

Ben,

I was really hoping this thread would generate some interest - so, I’m bumping it here…

Specifically, I’m interested in what cameras people have had good results with - for shots of boards, build threads and general use, etc.

I know I have trouble with mine - or my technique. Seems that alot of times I get too much “pixelization” by the time the shots are taken, go through Picasa on my computer then to “My Documents” to then get posted here or sent on somewhere else. Recent case being a board recently posted on the mid-length thread here where the outline and pinlines came out jagged and uneven - “pixelized”.

I’m not looking to go high tech - just looking for suggestions on a decent, reliable “daily driver” type to use in the shop, leave in the truck or whatever - or is everyone using I-phones these days (there’s another area I’m still clueless on).

Thanks,

Pete

chippy61 · June 24, 2012, 11:40am

Ben,

I was really hoping this thread would generate some interest "

cheers Pete !

me too !

At the moment I have my ' go pro ' .... for watershots , it's GREAT !

my point and shoot nikon 'coolpix' camera died [sigh]...that was what I mainly used for shots of my fins , boards , and closeups and medium distance nature shots.....

I would love to get a digital SLR camera one day when I am more financial . I'd like to take surfing photos from the land again , especially when it's deep water , cold , and crowded on bigger days , here in WINTER [which is now].

And also , because from the age of 17 , till a couple of years ago , SLR film cameras were what I always used . So I am used to focussing , apertures , shutter speeds , and having more creative control , at the PICTURE-TAKING stage of the 'proceedings'.

So , I hope that a good photographer [or two hundred] , who uses quality digital equipment now , will chime in here ...

cheers Pete !

ben

drzoidberg · June 24, 2012, 12:45pm

Here’s a link to my flickr if anybody wants to browse through. I don’t shoot too much surfing, although I want to start shooting it and the surrounding lifestyle a lot more. It’s hard to shoot something you enjoy doing yourself, but I’m trying to get some waterproof things so I can change that.

Since I’m getting a nice amount of help with surfboard design, maybe I can help here.

As far as digital I only have a canon s70 point and shoot, which produced the last shot I posted and all digital shots on my flickr. I love shooting with that camera though. It has full manual settings and it’s small so I take it everywhere. It takes a great iimage when the lens is stopped down a bit. Otherwise I have all 35mm and medium format gear. Quality glass and cameras for digi slrs are sooooo expensive. I’m slowly stopping with the film, and really I just want a canon s100 point and shoot. Smaller cameras like that fit my style much better. If film was slightly cheaper I’d still be shooting with rangefinders or something. Getting used to the lack of a lens/focus ring and whatever else was wierd but now I’m over it.

And on the subject of a good surfing photo, I personally like looser, further away shots. I have a 300mm lens, but I try not to use it cause a lot of surf shots I see are shot with a long tele and pretty much fill the frame with the surfer. It does capture the action and look cool, but it’s become generic. Same with the in the wave fisheye angle. It’s cool, but totally been done before.

drzoidberg · June 24, 2012, 1:04pm

Edit: this was supposed to be at peterharwood

That might be due to your image processing rather than the camera. I found that thread, those images don’t look too bad but there are a few things.

If you’re not resizing the image before it’s posted to the web, your’re uploading a huuuuge file. Usually forums and websites compress and reduce the image to be displayed in a post, that downsizing can give wierd effects if the image was 3000 pixels wide and was quickly brought down to 800. If they are resized in picasa, it might be that. I’m not fimiliar with picasa though, so I don’t know. It does look more like an image compression issue than a camera issue.

On the second rocker shot, it looks like the camera focused on the background and not the board, damn autofocus…

It should be said that pin lines, being so thin, are something a camera could have trouble resolving, especially as you get further away from them and their relative size decreases. But it looks more like the images was compressed to a point where detail was lost. I would try other image risizing methods. Also the way the pin lines go to the fins is cool.

chippy61 · June 26, 2012, 3:12am

....thanks zoidman !

where are you from , mate ?

chippy61 · June 26, 2012, 4:04am

retrothis ,

and zoidy ...

what are the minimum to maximum shutter speeds your cameras have ?

ditto on apertures ?

focal length of lenses ?

it will be relevant to the next posts of mine]

.....I ask , because I was just typing some stuff to the fellow sways man [can I NAME you , mate ?] , and he thought it was helpful...

....I HOPE so !

rob9095 · June 25, 2012, 3:45pm

I dont consider myself of a photographer or even know anything about film. But theres something about pictures that gets me stoked. I took these around san clemente with my iphone haha

drzoidberg · June 26, 2012, 12:12am

My digi point and shoot is a canon s70, I believe it’s f2.8 through f8, shutter from like 15 seconds to 1/2000 or 1/1000 I think.

For 35mm I’ve got:

28mm f2.8, goes up to f22

50mm f1.8, goes up to f22

had a 70-210 f4 that went up to 22 I think, but the aperture blades seem to be uncoupled from the ring and I can’t open the lens up to take a look. Screws are stuck.

And a 300mm f5.6, goes to f32.

Bodies are a canon Al-1, which has something low to about 1/1000th maybe. Haven’t used that in a while. I mainly use a canon t90 which has bulb, maybe 30 or 15 seconds up to 1/4000. All of that is canon fd system, before autofoucs EOS was around.

Medium format is a yashicamat, which is a tlr. Shutter from bulb to 1/500 and aperture from 3.5 to 22. Lens is a 75mm, which is similar to 50mm on a 35mm camera.

And I’m from new jersey.

chippy61 · June 26, 2012, 5:07am

thanks , good Doctor ! [ I like your name , by the way !]

....wow !!!

almost parallel photography worlds !

just about all you mentioned is what I have / had ... my twin lens was not a yashicamat [I forget what it was ... it was , after all, over 20 something years ago now !]

the only difference being I don't have a canon S70 ...

Personally , I started with a box brownie [kodak] , then a 126 instamatic [remember those? cartridge film ...then , a 110 ' pocket instamatic' [slimmer than the 126 , and rectangular picture format , instead of square ]

On my ? 15th or 16th ? birthday , the folks bought me a 'Ricoh35ZF' camera , [not an S.L.R. , but a 35mm FILM camera , nontheless ... it was 'sort of' a rangefinder-type deal.....got me started ]...

At 18 [33 years ago] , when I left home , I came into possession of the aforementioned Pentax Single Lens Reflex ['S.L.R.'] , the SP1000 , [courtesy of a co-tenant's late husband's deceased estate] ... the Pentax SP1000 being the model before the k1000, the K1000 being was the first of the bayonet mount pentaxs - mine were screw mounts , so , thankfully longer lenses became cheaper, after the bayonet mount was introduced ....[yay , I SCORED !!]

I also had a Canon AE-1 , complete with the 1.3 frames per second power winder of the day . [!]

In terms of my water cameras, from 1980- about 2000 , I have had [in order] ...

....a Nikonos2 , and a Nikonos 3 [ my favourites ] .... then , a Nikonos 4a ,

[As well as having had to use the el-cheapo kodak disposable underwater cameras , when my Nikonoses [?word?] unfortunately died / drowned / got ripped out of my hands , on me ... ( the ocean floor here claimed two [sniff ] ) ]

From 1983 to ?around 2004? , I was also printing black and white in my bathrooms , where I have lived [ my 'darkrooms ' haha] . Did a photography course in 1984 / 85 , where I mainly learnt black and white [ what I wanted to do at the time ]....

Simon [my brother ] recently sent me some shots [ black and white 8x10s] that I had sent him , over the last twenty or so years ...none of which I have [the negs for] any more , 'of course' ?! darnit ]

I still like manual focus , manual settings options , interchangeable lenses ....

Rob , thanks for posting your shots .... good on you mate !

Remember ... despite all I've written above , it is NOT always about the equipment ! ...

if you love photos , have an eye for a good shot [ and it gets you stoked !! ] .... that , right there , is as much a part of it , as anything else ....

I have seen great photos taken with box brownie cameras , kodak disposable underwater cameras , pinhole cameras ....

"beauty " , as they say , "is in the eye of the beholder " ... then , a little technique and thought and talent and practice is often all that takes it 'a step further' .....

chippy61 · June 26, 2012, 6:04am

APERTURES ...

okay , part 1 of why I asked the 'apertures , shutter speed ' questions ...

I have always been a fan of having the subject in good focus , whether it be a closeup of a fin , a plant , resin swirls [etc] ...or a medium distance portrait [head and shoulders , with a medium telephoto] , or a further away , fairly frame-filling 'surfer in a tube' [telephoto lens] type of shot.

In the days of manual focussing , careful focussing [by the photographer , not the camera !] , and the selection of an 'appropriate' aperture for the effect desired , played an important part in the result obtained . [Film speed , lighting , and shutter speed being some of the other factors ...]

'Retrothis' ...

as an example ...

for your shot of the 'porscher' , the one of it racing ....

can you remember / do you have a record of what shutter speed / aperture , and 'film' [iso] speed you used , to get the nice 'speed blur' effect , please ??

I figure , rather than get into " too much writing' , perhaps I / we can caption some shots , with exposure information , so people that are wondering / ?interested? [HOPEFULLY?] can actually SEE the effects [eg : of 'aperture'] , rather than trying to 'imagine' them ....

retrothis · June 26, 2012, 10:11am

Chippy! My apologies, you must think me very rude! :D I keep meaning to and forget to reply to your original post!

Here are the stats for the porshe shot:

Camera	SONY
Model	DSLR-A100
ISO	100
Exposure	1/60 sec
Aperture	9.0
Focal Length	210mm

Again this was shot using a tripod (in a monopod setting).

The lens was 70-300 konica minolta (standard issue so to speak) BUT the focal lengths was actually (210 X 1.5) 315mm. This is spesific to DIGITAL SLRS. There is alway some sort of multiplier for every focal length. I dont really understand why this is, it might have something to do with the position of the sensor, I do not quite remember. (Canon 5D is the professionla D SLR that is termed "full frame" and does not suffer from this multiplier).

Anyways, for shooting motorsport im my view it is best to use the "shutter priority" mode. This mode allows you to set the shutter speed (this shot was 1/60s) and the camera then automatically works out the required apperature. For this kind of shot, the shutter speed takes the presedence over the aperature, because it is the shutter speed that dictates the "dynamics" of an action shot. Because I have a DSLR I could see the results straight away and adjust the shutter speed to where I wanted it. which was 1/60s.

Here is an example of shutter speed that is too slow (yet this can also produce an arty shot)

Here is the other extreme, shutter speed too fast (your fellow aussie M. Webber looks like hes parked on the corner). Notice the wheels, they appear not to be rotating

So, in summary;

Things to look for in a motorsport shot

1) Blurred wheels (rotational)

2) Blurred background (achieved by followig the car whith the camera while the shutter is open)

3) Car in focus (achieved by followig the car whith the camera while the shutter is open) This one takes a bit of practice.

retrothis · June 26, 2012, 10:23am

Now, aperture:

Camera	SONY
Model	DSLR-A100
ISO	100
Exposure	1/4000 sec
Aperture	1.7
Focal Length	50mm

Compare with

Camera	SONY
Model	DSLR-A100
ISO	100
Exposure	1/125 sec
Aperture	22.0
Focal Length	50mm

These were taken with a fixed 50mm lens (termed "PRIME" lens>> no zooming in or out, focal lenghts is set to 50mm) all that can be adjusted is the aperture.

Notice how in the top shot the large logo is the only thing in focus, the smaller logo on the neck of the bottle is out of focus...this is the effect of f1.7. A 3/4" difference in object distance from the lens dictates is the object is in focus or not. The second shot is shot with f22, notice how all of the bottle and the snowboard behind it are all in focus!

These are the two extremes of aperture...

(NOTE: how the camera adjusted the shutter speed with respect to the aperture>> this is called the "aperture priority" mode an inversion of the "shutter priority").